Army List (TAC): 2500 for review

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Dracos
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Army List (TAC): 2500 for review

Post by Dracos »

I don’t think I’ve posted an army list. This is my 2500 point build post FAQ. Any thoughts?

Wood Elf Realms - Autumn Rain - [2500pts]

## Characters [1153pts]
Glade Lord [553pts]: Forest Dragon, Ogre Blade, Talisman of Protection, Moonfire Shot, An Annoyance of Netlings, A Befuddlement of Mischiefs

Spellweaver [275pts]: Warhawk, Wizard Level 4, Elementalism, Lore Familiar, Ruby Ring of Ruin

Treemen Ancient [325pts]: General, Wizard Level 4, Battle Magic


## Core [662pts]
6x Deepwood Scout [96pts]: Hagbane Tips
• 1x Musician

6x Deepwood Scout [96pts]: Hagbane Tips
• 1x Musician

10x Glade Guard [130pts]: Hagbane Tips

10x Glade Guard [130pts]: Hagbane Tips

5x Glade Rider [105pts]: Hagbane Tips, Reserve Move

5x Glade Rider [105pts]: Hagbane Tips, Reserve Move


## Special [350pts]
6x Wild Rider [175pts]: Shield
• 1x Standard Bearer

6x Wild Rider [175pts]: Shield
• 1x Standard Bearer


## Rare [335pts]
Great Eagle [60pts]

Great Eagle [60pts]

Treemen [215pts]


Thanks for checking it out.
Last edited by Dracos on 31 May 2024, 04:25, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Army List (TAC): 2500 for review

Post by Anaya »

Looks brutal!

I am heading a little in that direction myself, with my wild hunt/biker gang. I am considering switching my beloved wardancers for a 2nd unit of wild riders, as the wardancers struggle with getting their hands dirty, while the wild riders are in the thick of it from turn one.

I have had mixed experiences with treeman ancients myself. I felt that it is difficult to use all of their abilities to their full extent; if they get into combat you cannot use most of their spells and vice versa. I eventually went back to a normal treeman and a spellweaver.

I would perhaps try and find the point for including an eagle, perhaps by cutting down on a couple of glade guards and a spite? I find that eagles almost always are useful, either for attacking war machines, supporting with flank or rear charges, or just standing in the way of things.
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Re: Army List (TAC): 2500 for review

Post by Dracos »

I keep meaning to see if the LotT eagles are available or in stock.

Yeah testing the Ancient. I’ve been using a standard Treeman and felt the extra spells might make the Treekin more a threat offensively and defensively
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Re: Army List (TAC): 2500 for review

Post by Anaya »

I just bought a couple of LOTR eagles myself. :)
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Re: Army List (TAC): 2500 for review

Post by Mollesvinet »

What I like:

1) Lamentation of despair on the dragon looks nice, haven't seen it before

2) Love the fast mage that can follow the dragon around and hide behind it. Forest walker might be interesting with the dragon if there are many forests.

3) Glade riders with reserve movement, deepwood scouts and wild riders can't go wrong

4) chunky unit of treekin, even with S4, might do some good work.

What I don't like so much:

1) So far I mainly considered glade guard as tax. If I had to use them it would probably be with trueshot arrows as they are quite difficult to manoeuvre and get into position. But depends on local meta too I suppose.

2) Treemen ancient for the same reasons as above. Could use an elf on foot to save some points for other things, or on horse if taking more glade riders. But again, give it a try especially if you like the model/fluff

Suggestions:

1) Consider vanguard banner on a unit of wild riders, you can now vanguard and still charge on turn 1

2) If you want to reduce the number of glade guard, then I highly recommend more glade riders. Bump a unit to 10 with ignore cover banner, and use reserve move to hide behind our forest or a hill after shooting. Very safe unit.

3) Our dispel staff is very strong if already investing in a mobile level 4 mage

4) Play what you think is fun, and have a good game 😊
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Re: Army List (TAC): 2500 for review

Post by Dracos »

I had a few points is where the idea of using Lamenations came from. Figured it couldn't hurt but could lose it if needed.

Going to work on the different sizes on Treekin units to see what is most effective in numbers. Ancient is part of the Treekin experiment. It ups the magic game and has a small frontage. I have found Treeman are generally hard to kill and drop to third on my opponents to kill list when I have a Dragon and two units of 6 Wild Riders.


Glade Guard are a result of a lot of number crunching and practice. A unit of 8 that are 5 wide gets off 7 shots on a small frontage. Although now that I think about it 7 that are 4 wide might be better? Regardless they help me barely get over the Core minimum, which is what I am going for.

Glade Riders are at 5 and some list I take 6. Not only is that all I own at the moment, but as skirmishers I think anything larger would start to get hard to maneuver unless I put them in Open Order instead of Skirmish.

I like the concept of using the Vanguard Banner. Im just not sure about how to use it effectively. What happens when you lose first Turn roll off. Seems like it would be wasted, and I lose roll off a lot it lol

Good points, I'll definitely end up trying the Vanguard.
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Re: Army List (TAC): 2500 for review

Post by godswearhats »

I think you should always assume you're gonna lose the roll off and deploy accordingly.
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Re: Army List (TAC): 2500 for review

Post by Anaya »

I am going to try Wild Riders with Vandguard myself, but I worry about the same thing. It is easy to lead the 'riders by the nose, and even easier after the latest FAQ, I guess.

I guess I will try and deploy them opposide something suitably squishy. Wild Riders on the charge can tear through most units, so I am not that worried, but I want to avoid getting them stuck in a tar pit.
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Re: Army List (TAC): 2500 for review

Post by Mollesvinet »

I would agree to assume going second, but with Vanguard you might be able to end up just out of charge range of infantry on flank for example.

Alternative it can also be used not to charge turn 1, but ensure getting around the enemy on turn 1 movement phase for a juicy charge on turn 2.

Give it a try if you like the idea.
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Re: Army List (TAC): 2500 for review

Post by Dracos »

Made some minor revisions based on the last two games. I have been pushed into positions where I felt it the best choice to charge with the Glade Riders more than a couple times recently. The aren’t what you call beastly but they do a number on small units and other skirmisher.
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Re: Army List (TAC): 2500 for review

Post by Dracos »

Anaya wrote: 16 Apr 2024, 14:35 Looks brutal!

I am heading a little in that direction myself, with my wild hunt/biker gang. I am considering switching my beloved wardancers for a 2nd unit of wild riders, as the wardancers struggle with getting their hands dirty, while the wild riders are in the thick of it from turn one.

I have had mixed experiences with treeman ancients myself. I felt that it is difficult to use all of their abilities to their full extent; if they get into combat you cannot use most of their spells and vice versa. I eventually went back to a normal treeman and a spellweaver.

I would perhaps try and find the point for including an eagle, perhaps by cutting down on a couple of glade guards and a spite? I find that eagles almost always are useful, either for attacking war machines, supporting with flank or rear charges, or just standing in the way of things.
So far enemies like to push in toward the Treekin units. I feel it gives me an edge on the fights on the flanks. I still need to get better at using the Dragon. I’m not use to using a hammer that also functions as a small anvil with Wood Elves. I keep wanting to dance around with him too much. Wasting time I could be killing stuff. Practice practice practice

To a point though. Having a true bait unit. One where the opponent looks at its points and says yummy, I feel is important to drawing them into a position of our choosing for the Wild Riders. WR aren’t super expensive and when you have a Dragon to avoid they become relatively less a target. Meanwhile the Ancient and Treekin look like easy pickings.

Accept they’re tough as nails and Stubborn. More than I initially gave them credit for even against S4 fire attacks. The trick I'm still learning is to set them up in such a way to support each others flanks when they Give Ground. Better yet hide just on the other side is a 12inch wide woods that’s 6 inches deep and force the opposition to enter the woods so the Treekin get off the charge instead of being charged.

Much of this depends on judging your opposing army style and the player themselves of course. Still I’d rather force them to play to my tune than sit there and take it on the chin myself.
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Re: Army List (TAC): 2500 for review

Post by Dracos »

Thought: delete one unit of Treekin from my list boost the one remaining to four strong. Swap 2 glade riders for 2 deepwood scouts and add two great eagles to the army list?
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Re: Army List (TAC): 2500 for review

Post by Dracos »

After a number of test games I’ve decided to toss out the Treekin. They were just infuriatingly impotent in combat. I’ve decided to toss a Treeman next to the Ancient and added a couple Great Eagles to help out on the flanks. Tournament is on the 8th, same day as my 60th birthday so wish an old man to not at least fall on his face 🎉

I’ve updated the original post for anyone interested in digging at it. List are due on the 6th. 🎂
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Re: Army List (TAC): 2500 for review

Post by godswearhats »

Yeah, I kinda feel the same about Treekin sadly. If they were S5, or had some AP or ... something! As it stands, my lovingly painted unit of 6 sits on the shelf.
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Re: Army List (TAC): 2500 for review

Post by Dracos »

Attended a 16 person tournament this weekend. I think it was called Summer Slaughter I’m still foggy brain from all the geometry lol. Won 2 Lost 1 and took second place. Each of the games my opponents were running what I would call standard list for an event.

First game vs Tomb Kings. Usually suspects Dragon, Chariots, Scorpions, three infantry blocks and catapults. He capitulated after T3 I had killed all his good stuff minus the chunky block of Tomb Guard and the Dragon.

Wasn’t a fan of those Catapults lol

Second game vs Vampire Counts. Again Dragon, Blood Knights, Mortis, Terrageist, etc. three big blocks of Skellies and Zombies. I was overly aggressive with my Dragon after he and a unit of my Wild Riders killed his Knights and Terrageist. Thought I could take out the Mortis Engine also and pretty much my dragon dies from screaming.

What the hell counters a screamer?

Third game against my buddies Bretonnians. Who’s helping shape me building Brets as my second army. He set his six Pegasus Knights midfield. Gave every archer I had range to target and wiped them out on Turn 2. Some good rolls for me. Arcane Urgency for my Dragon in his backfield which should have been a good thing but barely wiped out half a KotR lance (10) before the Duke turned it into a thug match that resulted in neither dying. He was on one wound but my Lord wasn’t a lot better off. Sneaky Green Knight killed off my Wild Riders on one side while the other unit of WR slugged it out with some KotR lance barely winning that match up. Arcane Urgency allowed me to sling the Treeman at the Green Knight where he took revenge for the WR. After that just tried to avoid those Grail Knights :)

Duke is a cost effective beast. Need to have better answer for ethereal


Overall I couldn’t have done much better I’d say dice were average across all three games. I’m confused why Treeman have such a rep and were avoided by all three opponents. I took them because it was 2500 freaking point game and I’m not a fan of Treekin or Eternal Guard.

The Dragon Lord did okay and was fun to play but I have a tournament at end of the month and I’m on the fence.

If I take out the Dragon Lord I and a Great Eagle, I can add a second Spellweaver on Warhawks, two (2) Stag Captains to support the Wild Riders and a third unit of Deepwood Scouts.

Losing my Dragon in the second fight and almost in the third fight. Mmmm, I’ve been told I have an aggressive compared to other Wood Elf players and at a bigger event like the one coming up I’m sure to run into a more Vamps dragon and screamer list.

This new idea would possibly out 4 fireball spells out each turn. That spell does work, at least first couple turns lol. More shooting Scouts means more hagbane and fire and flee units to lure opponents into position.

Going to have decide if all that and the two Stag Captains make up for the loss of the Dragon Lord? Other option is take out the Treeman components and add the Stag Captains keeping the Dragon Lord?

Three fun opponents. Obviously most people still trying to get rules right for their own armies. Almost impossible to know everyone else’s …. but do your homework ;)
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Re: Army List (TAC): 2500 for review

Post by OvertninjaX »

I think what the dragon lord mostly brings to lists is toughness and mobility. any dragon is a threat that your opponent must address, and it will draw a good deal of attention, which means they're also a useful distraction. however, they are (as you have experienced) a distraction that must be assisted with magic and other stuff to be really effective.

WE dragon lords aren't nearly as punchy or as durable as other dragon lords, however, and they're extremely expensive, and you honestly get a good deal of the punch for far less points with a stag lord with a decent magic sword, in my estimation. they'll deliver the offensive bite you are looking for, especially in combination with a wild rider escort, but they can't survive any of the hate that a dragon can.

if you cut the dragon, I'd keep the treeman. I suspect you'll want one or the other (dragon or treeman) in any larger list so that you have something that can tie up a tougher unit that you can't crush with offensive power immediately. I personally don't own a dragon (as a youth I thought the noodle dragon looked derpy instead of awesome, what a fool I was), so I can only tree person, but they seem to do the same job (as far as being a mobile stubborn wall) for about half the cost, even if their offensive power and mobility are much lower.

as for scream lists, there's not much you can do about being yelled at by giant boney bats and spooky chairs unfortunately, outside from giving them less juicy targets (I mean, a dragon is just begging to get shouted at imo). whatever they shout at is going to die, but if they're yelling at a moose you lose a lot less than you would otherwise. :p happily, spooky chairs and skelebats are a great target for hagbane, which you seem to bring in bulk. they aren't the best fireball targets, but the rest of the army certainly is!
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Re: Army List (TAC): 2500 for review

Post by OvertninjaX »

since my last reply was really long, I'll add this last bit over here. :s

if you're looking to squeeze more casting into your list, I think that sisters of the thorn are a fantastic way to get some mobile fireball delivery into any list. they're relatively cheap, they come with a ward save, they throw poison javelins, they're mobile, and they cast a bound lvl 2 spell when they have full compliment. they're cheaper than a lvl 2 wizard on a horse with a +4 ward and have more wounds! a couple units of these guys and you'll be a mobile forest fire.

I'd personally just use a normal treeman instead of an ancient, additionally - you want your tree guy in combat so he can get to slapping things around, and many spells that a treeman could carry can't be cast in combat, so they seem at cross-purposes. I'd at most go lvl 2 with one, and take a signature combat spell like hammer hand, and swap out the other spell for tree singing maybe - that way you can use them in combat to put hands on people, and not lose too much. even so, I'm inclined to just bring a normal treeman and save the 100 or so points, and get myself more casting elsewhere.

anyway, thank you for listening to my ted talk
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Re: Army List (TAC): 2500 for review

Post by godswearhats »

Note, you cannot have both Hammerhand and Tree Singing. All the Athel Loren spells are instead of the signature spell.
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Re: Army List (TAC): 2500 for review

Post by OvertninjaX »

godswearhats wrote: 12 Jun 2024, 17:17 Note, you cannot have both Hammerhand and Tree Singing. All the Athel Loren spells are instead of the signature spell.
ahhh, right, because they're all things you can swap instead of the signature spell. ancient is looking even less attractive imo :s
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Re: Army List (TAC): 2500 for review

Post by Caerwiniog »

Yeah this is particularly annoying for the Ancient.

He really needs Hammerhand but Tree Singing would be good as well. It's a shame and definitely limits his viability.
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Re: Army List (TAC): 2500 for review

Post by MakeAthelGreatAgain »

Ya, Wood Elves in general have very bad Wizards. It’s a shame that level 4s are mandatory bc ours are the worst in the game.
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Re: Army List (TAC): 2500 for review

Post by James »

MakeAthelGreatAgain wrote: 13 Jun 2024, 12:26 Ya, Wood Elves in general have very bad Wizards. It’s a shame that level 4s are mandatory bc ours are the worst in the game.
I wouldn't say they are the worst.
A magician on horseback, combined with Reserve Move and moving so as not to be caught by the enemy, can make life miserable, and Oaken Stave is a really useful magic item.
How strong a given hero is depends on the driver operating him ;)
godswearhats wrote: 12 Jun 2024, 17:17 Note, you cannot have both Hammerhand and Tree Singing. All the Athel Loren spells are instead of the signature spell.
You can do this on 2 heroes with Lore of Athel Loren - like Spellweaver + Ancient or other Wizard
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Re: Army List (TAC): 2500 for review

Post by Dracos »

Caerwiniog wrote: 12 Jun 2024, 22:50 Yeah this is particularly annoying for the Ancient.

He really needs Hammerhand but Tree Singing would be good as well. It's a shame and definitely limits his viability.
Well the Ancient cant be too bad. I came in 2nd place after fighting Tomb Kings, Vampire Counts and Bretonnian Knights. The Ancient has survived almost every game I've ever used him in and that includes a couple fights with Dukes. Actually the Ancient has been an excellent use of points denial and as a midline anchor has often been in position to dispel most my opponents magic

I've actually decided I'm not that much a fan of of Elementalism for the Ancient. Battle Magic has been more productive. There's only one spell I won't use and Hammerhands a good signature spell for just in case. Treesinging all too often is dispelled at the top of my opponents turn so I've started avoiding Remain in Play spells when possible.

I have a 2,500 point GT coming up soon and I'll post the tweaked army list next week and the tournament summary afterward. I'm shooting to go 3-2
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Re: Army List (TAC): 2500 for review

Post by OvertninjaX »

I can appreciate the points denial potential of the ancient, which I had not considered, and he's certainly durable, but with the low number of attacks he has I'd be leery to get him into combat. I do think battle magic is the way to go for him though - elementalism is better on a more mobile caster like sisters of the thorn or a mounted elf wizard.

Looking forward to hearing your results from the GT! You run a lot more heroes than my lists typically do, but I've seen this trend generally in TOW with many lists, which defies the conventional wisdom of previous fantasy battles editions. it's an interesting development - probably because you can't just snipe every strong hero off the table with a single cannon shot now. :p
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