Hello from the Ambassador of the Asrai Italian Community

[Avalon]

Hello fellow Asrai,

After quite a long time, we are back, and I'm truly excited about the new edition and the rules we have.

Now, a bit about me: I'm an Asrai player who has been exclusively playing Asrai since their creation. I've tried other armies, but... no thanks.

If you were to see my army on the table, it would resemble an Asrai timeline with models from the very first edition to the last. That's why in my community, they treat me like a Treeman Ancient and why you can consider me an ambassador for the Asrai community, based on the Tilea GW Forum .

After reading every single post related to this edition, I'd like to add something from my experience and from my fellow Italian Wood Elves, especially because on many things, we are on the same wavelength.

Let's start from the beginning (the post will probably be very long, so apologies in advance. I hope you have a comfy chair ).

Of course, this is just brainstorming, just to generate ideas and considerations.

a. I agree that the dryads today are not exactly what we used to know. That -1S was a very unpleasant surprise, and for their cost, I really don't know how to consider them. Probably the only thing we can do is to use them as a screen, especially in front of the Wild Riders to stop them from running wildly around the battlefield. I know that someone here suggested using a Great Eagle, but I believe that the Dryads can last a wee bit longer than our lovely big bird.

b. I'm very disappointed with the Doom Arrow but surprised that it can be given to different models. So, I was considering different scenarios here.

It is useless to give the BoL to the Waystalker because he has only 2A (unless the future FAQ will state that the shards will work in combo with the BoL). And indeed, the idea to give him the Ruby Ring was one of the first things that came to mind within my community too. So, who else could bear it? Well, in our army list, we have the Champion from the Eternal Guards and the Rangers who can have 50 points of magic items. The Bane and the Doom Arrow together are the perfect match in this case because they do not have a bow, so with this solution, they can use it. The same thing could be considered for the Ruby Ring; this could help us think about something else for the Waystalker. What I mean is that we could use one of the champions AND one of the heroes (who already has a bow though) as Doom Arrow bearers.

c. But what about the Shadowdancer? What about giving him the BoL or the Bane with the Doom Arrow? In the end, you can have a model that can be a mage, a fighter, and a shooter too. He does not need anything else because his normal rules are already great. Paradoxically, it is better to give the BoL to him because he has an extra attack compared to the Waystalker. With BS6, it's not a bad idea. Or he can have the Ruby Ring and, being also a Mage, with enough luck, he might have 2 fireballs What I mean here is that if we want to have another 3 S4 shots from the BoL, or if we need someone for a Doom Arrow just to add some extra fire, we can think about him too.

d. In our community, we are testing the Glade Riders with the Reserve move with a Wizard on a horse with the Ruby Ring. The idea is to have a "cheap" wizard (level 1 is already ok), that is hidden, moves with the Glade Riders, they shoot, he casts what he wants, and then back to a safe place. Those are points that our opponent will never take if we play well. And again, this allows us to think differently about what we want to give to whom.

e. I agree that the shooting phase within this edition is more complicated and not as easy as it was in the past, and I love the math that someone has done about our enchanted arrows. However, I have not seen any posts about using magic standards to help our shooting phase, and I was wondering: what about the Midsummer's Eve and the Razor? With the first one, we remove any cover the enemy might have, and the second one is perfect especially for the Shards or the Bodkins with VERY heavily armored enemies. One of our Glade Guard units can have a 50pt magic standard, as well as one unit of Glade Riders if we are talking about shooting units (the SoT to me are not exactly shooting units despite their javelins). With the Razor, a shooting unit will have an armor bane 3.

If we add to this the Plague of Rust or the Course of Arrow Attraction from our Sisters, I believe that we can increase our shooting damages by a lot.

f. What are your opinions about the Tree Kin? I think it is the best surprise of the army list, and I was wondering why nobody ever mentioned them. I believe that, with the loss of the Dryads as the main CaC unit and the loss of the Wardancers' strength 4 due to their old rules of charge, I believe that these guys should be considered.

That's it for the moment. The list is still long, but I believe we have already a lot of things to discuss.

Thank you to those who will have the time and the patience to read it all.

[godswearhats]

I think you make a lot of good points, especially Shadowdancer with the Bow of Loren.

I've not really played large enough battles yet to bring Treekin. I have 6 rebased, and ready to go!

Dryads work OK as a screen, but they are very slow compared to any of our cavalry.

I think Glade Guard in a larger unit with a magical banner might make a lot of sense. Trueflight arrows and the Razor Banner would be very scary. Put the unit in a long line at the front of your army and shoot whatever you like, fleeing through the rest of the army (maybe give them Fire & Flee) and you could use up a large chunk of your Core requirement.

Welcome to the forum!
~gwh

[MortenLarsen]

A big welcome!

The Glade Riders are a happy surprise in this addition. I haven't used them since the 5th when they were more knigths than horse archers.

Tree Kin are deffinately our stable anvil unit. Eternal Guards have been nerfed to a point that I don't know what to use them for.

Magical items on champions are a great idea, I just haven't really found a good combo yet, but I'm considering the Wailing Arrow for the chance of Panic and it's only 20 points.

The Razor Banner can work but remember it's only AB and not AP so you need loads of As to get those 6s going.

[Avalon]

Well, the choice of the banner is related to the type of arrows we intend to use. Currently, within the community, we are experimenting with various ideas.

At present, we hold the belief that hagbanes are the optimal arrows for at least 80% of our archers, while reserving bodkins for the waywatchers or our swift troops such as glade and warhawk riders. The rationale behind this lies in the fact that hagbanes offer two opportunities for causing wounds: one with a natural roll of 6 and then the standard wounding process. It's akin to the proverb "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush." Although hagbanes do not provide the chance for armor bane, they necessitate additional armour saves from the opponent, and in this game, increased rolls correlate with heightened likelihoods of favourable or adverse outcomes.

Moreover, hagbanes can inflict damage regardless of the target's Toughness. Imagine the impact of 40 or 50 hagbanes per turn. Typically, a war machine possesses no more than 3 wounds.

My favoured idea is to have everybody (scouts, glade riders, warhawks...) with hagbanes, waywatchers and the bearer of the BoL with bodkins and a unit of 20 Glade Guards with the shards and the Razor. If we initiate the match, we have 30 or 40 arrows hitting on a 5+ (due to long range and multiple shots). Assuming we lack the high ground and thus have 15 archers in volley, 30 arrows yield 10 hits, implying at least two 6s, possibly three. Consequently, this translates to Armor Bane 3, likely resulting in the demise of two knights. However, additional rolls may be necessary for the enemy's basic Armor Saves, introducing an element of uncertainty. Nonetheless, in the initial round, the potential for two dead knights from a unit numbering between 5 and 7 is not negligible.

Now, supposing the opponent commences the match, we likely find ourselves within short range, meaning 30 arrows translate to 15 hits. This results in between three and four 6s, along with 3 or 4 additional basic armour save rolls.

When we factor in the ruby ring, the remainder of our shooting phase, and a decent magic phase (2 SoT equates to 2 fireballs if we want), we realise our capacity to effectively eliminate the most dangerous targets in the very first turns.

Admittedly, this discussion pertains to the best scenario for us, but it also implies that our adversaries will need to deploy and manoeuvre strategically. Or in other words, he deploys as we want. This strategic advantage grants us greater freedom on the battlefield, as it forces opponents to conform to our preferred tactics.

Indeed, this unit carries a considerable cost, yet I am confident it can make a substantial impact within the initial two turns. Moreover, it remains uncertain how many units would dare to charge them, especially considering the potential addition of "Fire and Flee" tactics to further impede the enemy.

[Beithir Seun]

Welcome to the forest Avalon!

Lots of good discussion points you've raised. Personally, I think the enchanted arrows discussion is a bit more nuanced than a straight-up comparison, and depends quite strongly on the playstyle used and the opponent you're playing against. My personal preference is for Trueflight arrows, as ignoring hit modifiers is pretty much always going to be useful. I'm inclined to believe Hagbane arrows are more situational than people think, so I'd be interested in seeing your practical experience using them on the majority of units!