TOW: First thoughts on new army-wide rules

[godswearhats]

I'm gonna kick things off with a thread about the new Wood Elf rules for The Old World, and give a first opinion about our army wide rules. Likely I'll write some more about each unit, tactics, etc. as I start playing more games. First tournament in 3 weeks!

Elven Reflexes: replacing the overpowered "Always Strikes First" of 8th edition, this gives a minor buff of +1 Init in the first round of combat. For most troops, this means going to I5, which I think will really only come into play when being charged by slow opponents (e.g. Dwarfs, Skeletons etc.). When charging, we'll likely be on I8 and going first against virtually everything else. When being charged, even a human will likely be faster (base I3, with a +3 for charging 3" or more). A minor buff, in line with the overall toning down of power for the whole game.

Talismanic Tattoos: no change here, still granting 6+ ward save to Wardancers and Wild Riders.

Tree Spirit: broadly the same, this makes it so that Elf characters can't join units of Dryads or Treekin. Interestingly, it also prohibits Tree Spirits from using the Ld of a non-Tree Spirit character, but does give any Tree Spirit character a command range bubble for other Tree Spirits, just like the general.

Tree Whack: this rule now applies to Tree Kin as well as Treemen, making the Kin a bit more useful against slow opponents, particularly other Monstrous Infantry. One attack is turned into an Initiative test, and if failed, the model suffers D3 hits at model Strength with no armor save. Potentially useful for a Treeman Ancient in a challenge, but probably only worthwhile against I3 and lower, which is not common among characters. Will experiment with it and see.

Woodland Ambush: we get a free forest again (and it doesn't have to be a GW one!). Between 8 and 12" in size, and not in the opponents deployment zone nor within 12" of the table centre.

So, not a whole lot new here, but minor tweaks on the rules from the old editions. Expect to see that for most of the army list. Next up, I'll cover the new Lore of Athel Loren.

[godswearhats]

Lore of Athel Loren

I figured I'd cover this here, because it's very short and not a full lore any more. In brief, instead of taking a signature spell, a wizard can take one of three spells from the Lore of Athel Loren. I'm not super happy about that, because I think two of the spells work well together in tandem, but it is what it is ...

Tree Singing: Cast on a 7+, it puts a 3" round forest on the board that remains in play and counts as dangerous terrain for enemies. If you roll a 9+ (pretty easy for L4 casters), it's a 5" round forest. I will probably use this all the time, because hindering enemies while providing benefit for our brave Asrai is just brilliant. However, it's a pretty easy dispel on later turns, given it only needs a 7+. Will try it out and see!

Forest Walker: Move a unit that's in a forest to another forest--this has been a staple of the Asrai for as long as I can remember. You can't be fleeing, and you can't place the unit within 6" of enemy models. I think this works well with Tree Singing, but given that this spell is cast in the Movement phase and Tree Singing is cast in the shooting phase, it may only be of occasional use. However, it seems like an excellent way to teleport a unit of Waywatchers into/out of trouble Relatively high casting value of 10+.

Flock of Doom: Small template S3 AP -1 magic missile. First thought is: meh.

And that's it!

[godswearhats]

Asrai Longbow

This is the last "army wide" rule, which is the return of the good ol' Asrai Longbow. It has a range of 32", which is excellent as it gives a short range of 16" (thus avoiding the -1 to shoot), and Armour Bane (1), which means the occasional 6 to wound will have AP -1. It also grants Volley Fire, which is the same as 8th edition except now only the front rank gets to shoot fully (unless you're on a hill, in which case it's the front two ranks). You also can't move and volley fire, and given the mobility of our army, I suspect this will rarely prove useful.

Everyone who can take an Asrai Longbow can also take one of the 5 types of enchanted arrows. 3 of these I'll call expensive, and two are cheap. That is to say, that they cost 2pts/1pt per model for rank and file, and 6pts/3pts for characters. All of these are coming from previous editions, and are broadly the same.

Expensive
Arcane Bodkins: Yep, the bodkins are back, and grant AP -2, which in this edition is pretty huge. It also stacks with the Armour Bane of the bow, so when you roll a 6 to wound, it'll be at AP -3.

Hagbane Tips: Same as before, the Hagbane tipped arrows are Poisoned Attacks, which will auto-wound on a 6 to hit.

Swiftshiver Shards: Grants Multiple Shots (2), which sounds great until you remember that the shots will be at -1 to hit.

Cheap
Moonfire Shot: Counts as both Flaming and Magical attacks. This basically means it cuts out all Regeneration saves.

Trueflight Arrows: Grants Ignores Cover and Quick Shot. To me, this is the stand out arrow of the bunch. This removes so many penalties from the to hit roll, so you can move and shoot with impunity (remember the 6th ed book?). I suspect that Trueflight Arrows will be stapled on to all my Glade Guard units, given the low cost and high value.

It's worth noting that the magical longbows we get access to also count as Asrai Longbows, and so can use the magic arrows. I'll do a separate thread about the magic items I think.

[Fitz]

I think Elven Reflexes might end up being more important than you think. It's another +1 in a collection of +1s we can get, in combination with at least one reliable -1 one we can dish out.

Consider a unit of Eternal Guard that gets charged:

I4 base
+1 for Elven Reflexes
+1 Asrai Spears

Give a character a Befuddlement of Mischiefs

-1 Init / -1 WS to an enemy unit in b2b

Now our fearless (well Stubborn anyway) forest guardians are now effectively striking at I7. That means that the only things striking first are charging elven elites and other elite cavalry (who are all at -1 to hit AND the cavalry cost 2-3x as many points).

I'm sure there are other sources of de-buffs too and this is a surface level reading of the situation but Initiative is going to be important and we have access to it

[Giladis]

Moonfire Shot: Counts as both Flaming and Magical attacks. This basically means it cuts out all Regeneration saves.

Flaming and Regeneration interaction has been changed. The target needs to be Flammable in order for a Flaming Attack to ignore Regeneration saves.

[Ikbuh]

Now our fearless (well Stubborn anyway) forest guardians are now effectively striking at I7. That means that the only things striking first are charging elven elites and other elite cavalry (who are all at -1 to hit AND the cavalry cost 2-3x as many points).

Have you played yet? I did two games yesterday, one of which had a block of 15 EG, though I didn't have befuddle with them. Here's the problem I had: one attack at S3. You can go first all you want, but if you swing like a wet noodle while also being T3 with a 5+ save, it doesn't matter and didn't matter for me. 15 EG with full command is between 220pts and 230pts that got just slowly folded to 20 orcs that I don't think cost more than 140pts if memory serves. Just wondering if anyone has had any better luck.

[MortenLarsen]

T4 is though getting through. But the extra attacks from spears and support attacks should be able to make it a fair fight. You should be able to take down 2 to 3 Boyz per round were the Orcs with choppas would do 1 to 2 wounds. This should give you time for a flank charge.

But you are absolutely right, striking first isn't a game winner most of the time when our units use leafs for protection... A straight fight is never a good option for WE

[Beithir Seun]

Have you played yet? I did two games yesterday, one of which had a block of 15 EG, though I didn't have befuddle with them. Here's the problem I had: one attack at S3. You can go first all you want, but if you swing like a wet noodle while also being T3 with a 5+ save, it doesn't matter and didn't matter for me. 15 EG with full command is between 220pts and 230pts that got just slowly folded to 20 orcs that I don't think cost more than 140pts if memory serves. Just wondering if anyone has had any better luck.

That's my immediate concern with EG too (as someone who historically ran lots of EG!). The loss of the extra attack from the Asrai spears compared to the old WHFB army books is pretty huge. Much like in previous incarnations, I think EG are going to either need to be large units (to soak up the inevitable casualties) or multiple small units to act as speed bumps or flankers.

[Fitz]

I guess my thought is I'm not expecting EG to fight alone. They need to hold long enough for something hammerish to counter-charge.

What I'm struggling a bit with is what that hammer is. I don't see a unit that we have can be both hammer and anvil, especially since we can't put good killy characters IN the treekin unit.

[MortenLarsen]

Did EG lose attacks? They can fight in 3 ranks, right?

[Ikbuh]

Did EG lose attacks? They can fight in 3 ranks, right?

Not in ToW. Elves don't fight in extra ranks anymore and instead have +1 initiative in the first round of combat. EG have an extra rank in combat except when they charge and can fight in extra ranks even on flank an rear. They also get an additional +1 initiative when they receive a charge, which puts them to I6. That puts them equal to i3 units that charge them.

What I'm struggling a bit with is what that hammer is. I don't see a unit that we have can be both hammer and anvil, especially since we can't put good killy characters IN the treekin unit.

Wardancers and Wild Riders, though honestly you could probably just replace all your EG with wardancers instead. They're just better at everything you'd want EG to do. Charge, blend them with attacks, then give yourself a 5++ save or -1 hit later. Stick a Shadow Dancer in there for extra murder. The main issue with dancers is S3, which is the common bane of the army lol.

[MortenLarsen]

Did EG lose attacks? They can fight in 3 ranks, right?

Not in ToW. Elves don't fight in extra ranks anymore and instead have +1 initiative in the first round of combat. EG have an extra rank in combat except when they charge and can fight in extra ranks even on flank an rear. They also get an additional +1 initiative when they receive a charge, which puts them to I6. That puts them equal to i3 units that charge them.

The front rank can attack, the Asrai spears have Fight in Extra Rank and they can make support attacks from the 3rd. rank. And I doing that wrong? But it's only 1st. and 2nd. rank that fight when they themselves charge.

[Ikbuh]

The front rank can attack, the Asrai spears have Fight in Extra Rank and they can make support attacks from the 3rd. rank. And I doing that wrong? But it's only 1st. and 2nd. rank that fight when they themselves charge.

I had to double check the actual rules because at a glance, you are correct. The "Fight in Extra Rank" rule, however, simply allows units to make supporting attacks, and it is also not a numeric rule, so it isn't cumulative with anything. Technically, the rule is redundant on the Spears because RAW Martial Prowess allows them to make supporting attacks. I don't think it's possible to attack with more than two ranks in this edition without a specific army rule.

Tldr:
Supporting Attacks aren't automatic, they must be granted by a rule, which is not an numeric rule and thus rules that grant it do not stack.

[MortenLarsen]

The front rank can attack, the Asrai spears have Fight in Extra Rank and they can make support attacks from the 3rd. rank. And I doing that wrong? But it's only 1st. and 2nd. rank that fight when they themselves charge.

I had to double check the actual rules because at a glance, you are correct. The "Fight in Extra Rank" rule, however, simply allows units to make supporting attacks, and it is also not a numeric rule, so it isn't cumulative with anything. Technically, the rule is redundant on the Spears because RAW Martial Prowess allows them to make supporting attacks. I don't think it's possible to attack with more than two ranks in this edition without a specific army rule.

Tldr:
Supporting Attacks aren't automatic, they must be granted by a rule, which is not an numeric rule and thus rules that grant it do not stack.

Wow. That's not great... So Stubborn has been nerfed, we lose attacks and one point of armour, and they are still at 13 points each

[godswearhats]

As much as I love the fluff of the Eternal Guard, the are not a competitive choice as things stand. 13 points+ per model with no obvious battlefield role—everything they could be used for is better done by another unit

[Beithir Seun]

To be honest, they've never been a competitive choice. They're kind of an anomaly in the list, as hammer-and-anvil isn't typical WE playstyle. I don't think that's changed much in TOW.

[Prince Faolan]

im new to WHFB/TOW but i do agree, it feels like if you want a defensive wall unit for holding the enemy in place, while their fluff would heavily imply that's the job of the eternal guard, youre really gonna use treekin for it, theyre just a lot tougher in the role. ill still run eternal guard for my army theme, and i think its at least amusing to give em the spite to lower initiative, cause getting charged and doing this does feel like peak elf.

[godswearhats]

Treekin are definitely our anvil unit. I'm saddened that there's no way to heal units now, because that was one of the big ways we could keep Treekin alive (thanks to the old Lore attribute on Lore of Life).