Khaine: Woodelf Fluff Review

[Nicholas Nitro]

I'm not so pessimistic on these new rules. I'm going to hope this leads to players buying equipment and special abilities based on a formula designed for "elves". Ultimately leaving the major fluff responsibilities to the player's discretion. Gamesworkshop can use special heroes and lord characters to provide subtle suggestions.

[Aezeal]

Neither seems very suitable for a WE army.. maybe if I knew what they actually are and what they so it would make more sense. The black ones seem like a crew of security guards for a KISS concert and the white ones seem like they enact some sort of gay courting ritual.

[Furyou Miko]

Morris Dancing is the modern form of a traditional sword-dance practiced in some of the more rural parts of England. Lots of stamping and clashing together of sticks.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_UY7xzIaHY[/youtube]

[Coyle_Ravane]

Think of it as line dancing with added wearing of bells, whacking together of sticks, and in some versions, waving of handkerchiefs (don't ask me why).

For the bunch in black, make it a little more aggressive, primal even.

For the bunch in white, make it a bit more cheerful, and think of the Shire as depicted in the LotR films.

Now add vast amounts of beer.

This is morris dancing.

[Aezeal]

Well... hard to say if it fits with the WE then.. I'd say the deciding point would be if WE like those vast amounts of beer or not

[Ellysia_Banearrow]

Well I haven't read it myself (and don't really have any desire to, except to confirm a quick couple of facts), but from what I have seen on the Internet:

The Oak of Ages, and by extension Ariel, were apparently poisoned by Lileath as part of her big plan. Allarielle then merges with the ailed Ariel to save her, becoming the full 'avatar' of Isha.

Orion died presumably for the same reasons all the other characters that have in the End Times series - the writers wanted something dramatic. The general consensus is that no he will not be reborn.

Durthu apparently is one of the few characters to square off with Tyrion and survive. The status of the other big Wood Elf characters is unknown to me, there hasn't been much discussion about them, except Daith, who is apparently the 'avatar' of Vaul. I believe he dies to if I remember my Internet information right.

Araloth is not the same Asuryan that's currently empowering Malekith. Lileath sent him to a new world untouched by Chaos with their child to create a new Elven race, effectively becoming an Asuryan MkII.

The Elves have apparently migrated to Athel Loren because Ulthuan has sunk and Naggaroth is overrun by Chaos hordes. I don't know why the Forrest Spirits haven't gone to town on them, but then quite frankly I'm more concerned about why they never dealt with the Beastmen that have supposedly always been in Athel Loren according to the 8th edition book (one of the many things about the new book's background I didn't like, and something my own Asrai have since decried as Talsyn-led hegemony propaganda).

Of course, like I said I'm largely steering clear of all the End Times background, this included. But if you're wondering what happens in it, that seems to be the gist of things. Spoilers have been marked in colour because there doesn't seem to be a spoiler tab option on here.

Thanks for the clarification about Araloth, I was very confused about that. Also the whole thing about the Oak of Ages and the poisoning, that was shocking to say the least. I had a horrible feeling that we'd lose both of our leaders similar to the HE, but I'd hoped to be wrong. The one thing that still confused me is I didn't ask about Daith but Naith, the prophetess. In the Nagash book, it's written that she gave a found farewell to Araloth, and he thought that meant his death and accepted it. But if she saw this all along, then surely she saw all the elves living under the boughs of Athel Loren as well.

I just noticed that the Khaine book is available for preorder in paper back and I am debating buying it or waiting to see if someone gets me an Ipad Min 2 for christmas and ordering the digital version for easier access. Is it any cheaper to buy the iStore version?

[Baardah]

I don't think the khaine book is available on the iBooks store anymore. I've checked the store of every country and I can't find it. It usually is alittle bit cheaper but not more than a pound or two

[nXken]

Azeal, everyone likes beer! If nog, then you're still in denial!

PS: greetings from Belgium

[Furyou Miko]

Ah, that's why the confusion - the Prophetess is Naieth. Naith looks like a typo for Daith.

[Aezeal]

Azeal, everyone likes beer! If nog, then you're still in denial!

PS: greetings from Belgium

TBH I personally don't like it at all .

Greetings from one of your northern neighbours.

[nXken]

Denial! Right there

You just haven't found your "perfect" match yet Azeal ;-)

[Nicholas Nitro]

I just finished my copy of the paperback, and this book is crazy. I'm glad the wood-elves made a strong showing at the end. We lost Ariel, Orion, and Daith, plus Araloth went off into the unknown, but but we didn't lose as many characters as the other elves did. The sisters of twilight, Scarloc, and Durthu all represented, reminding the other elves why we are the best. Lileath is the only surviving member of the elf pantheon now, and apparently our hero Araloth is raising their love child in a new dimension protected by Brettonian ghosts and safe from chaos.

[Aezeal]

I just read the novels, the Pdf's are hard to read on my e-reader.
In the novels the WE don't feature really but the story is good. It's .. reasonably convincing.





HUUUUUGE SPOILERSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS







It all hinges on the fact that Teclis gets informed by Lileath that this is what he needs to do to save the elven race. So for his goddess he betrays his brother (sort of, Tyrion could of course have listened). That makes the story more credible since Teclis THEN gets Imrik on their side (Imrik apperrantly didn't like Tyrion anyway and had already said he'd not support some other venture of Tyrion, the fact that apperanlty Malekith IS the real Phoenixking AND this divine blessing was enough to get him on board).
Morathi sees in Tyrion her old lover reborn (apperantly he looks exactly like him and ofc has the same martial prowess) and sides with him against her own son (she btw started this all sort of since she let the chaos hordes come to Naggaroth w/o warning Malekith (what she apperantly usually does being a seer etc) that caused Malekith to start loosing the war in the North vs Chaos)
Allarielle stays neutral (well isn't heard from at least) at first. The shadow king is his own party and Tyrion and Malekith stay away from him ( he tries a few shots at malekith somewhere in the story though) . Tiranoc and Ellyria are with Tyrion, other regions are less clear about allegiance in the novel. Anyway it's a war lasting more than a year.
At a certain point Morathi convinces Tyrion to try to take the sword of Khaine and Teclis tells Malekith to defend it. Malekith looses and almost gets killed (but Teclis conjures Malekith his dragon etc away then).
So Tyrion has Widowmaker. Teclis then convinces Malekith to go into the flames again (while part of Tyrions army attacks that particular temple Island). He now stays long enough and is reborn like Teclis said(1. apperantly if he had stayed a second longer 6000 years ago all of this would never have happened. 2. Malekith hoped being "reborn" would mean getting a real body again.. but it's only a spiritual rebirth and he's still in the armor of midnight.). Malekith now sort of is the avatar of Asuryan.
Teclis then also casts a glamour on him so he looks more like a gold plated elven lord. Malekith get's some 4K old guy who I think also made his armor (some sort of avatar/apprentice of Vaul) to make a sword for asuryan to fight vs the sowrd of khaine.

Then more fighting (tyrion and Malekith both avoid direct confrontation (malekith somewhat fearfull.. because Tyrion is .. well Tyrion with Widowmaker and Tyrion doesn't want to because fight because in divine history Asuryan beat Khaine and Malekith now also has an awesome sword).
Then Malekith learn that Allarielle is being attacked by Tyrion and Orion is defending her with the WE (what happened there to cause this (them used to being lovers etc) I do not know). Later Allariele turn up at Malekith's side with WE. By then Orion is dead by Tyrions hand and WE have sworn to Allarielle (Ariel not mentioned in the novel). She says he should rule etc etc and joins him.

Malekith and his team go on fighting but they are loosing because due to the powers of Khaine people get crazy and desert (even very loyal ones, like Imrik cousin etc so pure divine stuff doing that).

Teclis then decides he wants to do his thing with the winds of magic and Malekith is against because he doesnt'want Ulthuan to sink (Teclis admitted that would happen). Later fighting going even worse.. more discussion .. Teclis saying that he already sacrificied tons of elves, his own body etc etc for being king that he now has to sacrifice his greatest goal (Ulthuan) for his people.... and that if he doesn't do it they will loose anyway.

Malekith agrees with Teclis plan.

While they are trying to do the ritual Tyrion attacks ofcourse, Malekith tries to defend Teclis but is loosing. Malekith's new sword gets broken by widowmaker after a bad move. Then when Tyrion NEARLY kills malekith Alar Anith suddenly appears from behind a rock and shoots Tyrion... he shooots Malekith too btw (not sure what his plan was). Tyrion buys is. Malekith get's rescued or something after Teclis finishes the ritual and het get's the shadow incarnation.
The shadow king then also pledges fealty to Malekith (not right after he shot him.. but later).

Ulthuan si going to sink and everyone leaves for Loren.

It's a good novel and it makes the whole story credible. The fact Teclis initiates it all (which he started WAY before btw because 3 years earliers he let Malekith kill Finubar AND he did that thing with the daughter of Tyrion too to prevent Nagash coming back as a god) makes things possible. The fact his goddess says he should makes his initiation of it more credible.

Malekith stays an arrogant elf who wants things his way.. when he's commanding high elves he is a bit more easy since he want's to get them to join him (but he still things he really should kill anyone talking against him). It's a little character development but not TOO much (most just seems to end up being political to get his goals which he otherwise will not get).
Once the people cheer for him (not sure why or when exactly, but somewhere near the end) he feels a lot better.. which should help.

[Furyou Miko]

Ariel dropped again... sigh. Alath-Anar probably shot Mally because he really fricken hates him.

[Aezeal]

yeah but after that he decided to go with the flow (He killed Tyrion so no real opposition for Malekith.. not to mention ulthan is going down anyway).

I'm now reading the PDF's but it goes slow (busy in nagash book).. there is a lot of things double when reading those books AND the novels of course...

[Baardah]

I wonder. Besides from dead special characters, does the fluff remove any units from the books?
Like black guard, Phoenix guard and the white lions. Fluff wise they would have overlapping responsibilities. Phoenix guard guard the shrine of Asurian right. Guess that sunk in the ocean along with ulthuan?
The white lions are the Phoenix Kings guard. Well he is dead and we now have the eternity king who, when he was the witchking, was guarded by the black guard.
Then we have the excecutioners. Will their services be needed in the kingdom of Athel Loren? Will the take an education and become sword masters of... Oh damn their tower is gone....
Will the witchelves be allowed to remain bloodbathing nymfomaniacs on speed, or will they have to Learn how to dance in the name of Loec?

Will the dark riders only get the night shift?

Will the cold ones be able not to eat the elven steeds?

Can warhawks and dark Pegasus have babies or eggs or....

Where will the manticore stables be located?

Will malekith the eternityking allow other males to cast spells, or will all Loremasters, highelf mages and male weavers have to become Brolocks?

Anyone.....

[Aezeal]

I wonder. Besides from dead special characters, does the fluff remove any units from the books. Like black guard, Phoenix guard and the white lions. Fluff wise they would have overlapping responsibilities. Phoenix guard guard the shrine of Asurian right. Guess that sunk in the ocean along with ulthuan? The white lions are the Phoenix Kings guard. Well he is dead and we now have the eternity king who, when he was the witchking, was guarded by the black guard.

All still there though.

Then we have the excecutioners. Will their services be needed in the kingdom of Athel Loren? Will the take an education and become sword masters of... Oh damn their tower is gone....
Will the witchelves be allowed to remain bloodbathing nymfomaniacs on speed, or will they have to Learn how to dance in the name of Loec?

I think they should, but I doubt it. But I think we could just add the dances to their stats.. would be nice.
And combining the special rules of execs and sword masters would be nice too, but then also + 1 attack against fear causing or the WWR would get their feelings hurt. (so S4, A2, ASF, killing blow +1A vs fear and ofc rerolling a lot to wound and to hit)

Will the dark riders only get the night shift?

Yes

Will the cold ones be able not to eat the elven steeds?

They where in an army with the steeds of the DR.. not a good point

Can warhawks and dark Pegasus have babies or eggs or....
No but masters can certainly "or" with female spell weavers or female warhawk riders...

Where will the manticore stables be located?

Manticores are overrated so probably somewhere near the forest dragons to be their food?

Will malekith the eternityking allow other males to cast spells, or will all Loremasters, highelf mages and male weavers have to become Brolocks?

I think he's a bit less insecure these days, probably comes from having the hottest elf as a bride (not sure how she looks but I guess she's good looking, elven noble females do a lot of cosmetic sorcery augmenting).

[Caranthir Ciryatan]

Well as some say the book is a good read, approx I finished it in five days. At first I taught that the elven race was going to be united in one book, but now I doubt it. It seems Alith Anar has a uneasy alliance with Malekith. He shots both Tyrion and Malekith, Tyrion dies but Malekith survives. Anar still thinks at the end of the book that the arrow he shot at Malekith is embedded in his body close to his heart, in fact Alarielle has removed it. So Anar even if he swore alliance to the new Eternal King, he hates him. Ulthuan has sunk and all the Elves that where on the island continent, maybe all, survived.

But, those that read the book know that Malus had a very bad ending. According to Teclis he exploded when a daemon possessed him. Did He ?. When Alarielle enters Lothern, she is greeted by the crowd, but not all cheer. Asur that hate Malekith for what he was and done to their race, slip in the shadows, as do disillusioned Druchi. The next book, Book III is all about Malus. It seems he managed to return to Naggaroth, and has found something that Malekith had thrown in the ocean after defeating Tyrion, the Widowmaker. So he his going to make a dramatic return, and with the Widowmaker in his hand, for sure he is going to rid the land of chill of daemons.

For the Asrai in the book we know that Orion is dead, he was killed by Tyrion. Alas if the Oak of Ages is gone ( In what book it is mentioned ?) and Ariel died and her essence mingled with that of Alarielle, then the Asrai are going to have the later as their leader, or not ?. Araloth was by bet, but since he traveled to Chaos Wasteland to retrieve a long lost artifact, and the story of the lady/goddess he saw, and all the fluff about he been Asuryan reborn adds more the already complicated story. Is he going to marry Alarielle and became king, or all the Sisters of Twilight going to take over ?. After all it was rumored that they where the daughters of Orion and Ariel.

As for Imrik, he is not going to rest idle too, my guess is that is survival will follow a new path, due to his uneasy alliance with malekith. In the book, more than once he asked Teclis about the wisdom of their alliance with Malekith. Ulthuan may have sunk, but the High Elves still have the Citadel of Dusk, Fortress of Dawn. Tor Elasor. Tower of Stars, Tower of the Sun, Tor Elithis and the Gates of Calithin their hands. The Asrai have Athel Loren and many Druchi still live in Naggaroth. I am curious but it seems that the city of Arnheim has not been mentioned for a long time.

Cheers

[Aezeal]

Not sure where you got your info on book 3 so not gonna disagree with you but does widowmaker still have all it's power?

Allarielle was hailed by the forestspirits and WE as their new leader (at least the leader of the ones that came to Ulthuan to help fight there). Allarielle can't marry Orion or Araloth I'd say: 2 reasons: 1. she's going to or already has married Malekith. 2. Orion is dead, Araloth is gone to a new dimension.

What I read in the novel (not the actual books which also have the new rules in them) made Imrik one of the best supporters of Malekith. There is also the fact that while Malekith did a lot of bad things (understatement) he WAS actually right about being the rightful king, so his attempts at invasion of Ulthuan are things that should be considered "legal".

There are NOT many Druchii living in naggaroth: Naggaroth was nearly completely abandoned because of the chaos incursion: Only the city of his mother and the city of that wichelf leader didn't come on the exodus (according to the novel) but BOTH those women ended up being in Ulthuan in the end. Who remained probably all got killed by chaos (unless they joined chaos ofc).

While I agree that there are a lot of problems in the new elven nation I'm pretty sure GW could let them continue as one. Allarielle, Teclis and Imrik support Malekith (which means 3 of the 8 incarnations of magic btw). If Malekith get's killed in the story I'm not sure the DE would follow, but considering they are all living in Athel Loren now they don't have much of a choice even in that case.

[ivrg]

This latest "elf-story-modification" feels totally contrived beyond understanding.

That WE or athel loren would accept outsiders into thier forest is bullshit. Even if the elfs do it, there is no way the forest will.
And then Malekeith and his evil heart-ripping mom of all the elfs... Why would a phenix king even have any meaning for WE, they are not loyal to the phenix king anyway..
IS the war hydra going to find a new nice den besides his new friend Durthu? HEy, Durthu now has a bunch of new friends, war hydras and those medusa-things. And throw in a frost phenix as well.

So ariel merged wiht another elf and MARRIED the deformed evil king of the dark elfs... yeah right, i thought she was already married.

The magic rules suck! Its like youre in a restuarant and asks for little peppar in your soup and then you get the whole container of pepper in your soup.

[Aezeal]

Have you read the story?

It makes perfect sense:
Teclis (pretty important guy) is told by his goddes (pretty important too) that he needs to fix it this way or elves will die.
Malekith really should have been the Phoenix King
Teclis gets Imrik in on the deal (imrik already pissed off at Tyrion who had just become the steward of Ulthuan + Malekith standing in his rights wantnig the crown.

So that is 2 major players supporting him.

The only other claimant to being leader of the elves has been slightly unstable and becoming more so after drawing the widomaker. Tyrion is also backed by Moriathi which might make him seem a bit less like the good guy too.

Allarielle joins Malekith (probably alse because the elves would otherwise perish, maybe because he has been right for 6000 years in wanting the crown.
Allarielle was married to the previous Phoenix king: already dead for a few year when this happens (why there was a lot of HE political trouble and why Imrik dislikes Tyrion even more). She didn't really love Finubar anyway (had a child with Tyrion). The only real thing not explained is why she sides against Tyrion.

The WE (and forest spirits) have not really joined Malekith: they have joined Allariele and see her as their leader (being the new/only highest priestess of Isha)

This all happens in a few years btw.. not all at once.

And the magic rules are NOT like that. They are like getting a dish without pepper and now getting some more balanced flavor (more low level spells and less high level spells).

maybe you should read the books befor you start bitching. Not to mention merging of the elves is a great idea even apart from all the fluffffff

[nXken]

Cool down Azeal... Ur being a bit overzealous here.

[Coyle_Ravane]

And merging of the elves being cool is definitely a matter of opinion. For those who liked the way they were, it's not so great.

[Ramesesis]

Do not really know what to think. But maybe the Khaine book might be worth buying if I can spare the money. Not that totally happy but it would be fun to combine my HE and WE.
But my HE are customized for Cothique and losing the whole of Ulthuan sucks. No more seaelves.

[alexwellace]

I just finished reading through the End Times book (It was great by the way, probably not worth £60 good, but luckily i found a site online which was...generous enough to let me read through it for free) and i have to agree, GW didn't just shoe-horn all the Elves together without reason. There is a great, Doctor Who-esque overarching storyline that brings all the Elves together under Allarielle and Melakith. Apparently this was all the work of Lileath, the Moon Goddess (Who is also the Lady of the Lake) who Poisoned Ariel, forcing her to merge with Allarielle, all to bring the Elves together. She is the last remaining Elven God along with the Goddess of the Underworld.

It's a good story, and it does make sense in a convoluted sorta way. You can see Tyrions decent into madness, you can see Teclis being a sly-dog slowly losing his soul, you can see Melakiths progression from Dark-Elf-Murder-King to All-Elf-Threat-King (Which is an improvement i guess).

But for us, it's a good thing. Allarielle is ours now, think of her as our replacement Ariel, and she is the power keeping the Elves together, not Melakith. I'm just waiting for whatever Drycha has been plotting to come into being.