Doom Diver hits

[SquidBoy]

I fought OnG the other day and we had a dilemma.

I fielded a horde of dryads with a character on unicorn in it. Kind of like this:
(x beeing a single dryad and the unicorn taking up four spots (represented by o))

xxxxxxxxoo
xxxxxxxxoo
xxxxxxxxxx

a Doom Diver hits the unit touching BOTH the unicorn and the dryads. Since a DD isn't really a template weapon and just distributes D6 wounds to the unit I argued that it's like normal shooting and the unicorn wouldn't be hit. My opponent argued that the unicorn would receive D6 wounds and the dryads D6 wounds as if they where separate.

So, what the deal here? I have tried to search other forums, but it seems to be a very complex situation.
Same situation goes with Doom Diver hitting both Cauldron of Blood and the witchelf unit. Or hitting both the screaming bell and the skaven unit.

[GeoffDiGeoff]

I'd say it counts as one unit, and you only need to distribute hits to the character if you less than 5 dryads left. I could be wrong, but that's how I've played against DD's before.

[uberjay]

D6 Hits on the unit...the entire thing is one unit so distribute as shooting. You can put them all on the dryads if you wish to but you may distribute equally however u like for example 3 on the dryads 3 on the unicorn 6 on the dryads as long as there are at least 6 dryads left.

Hope that helps

Jay hopkinson

[Cold73]

I've indeed come across this once when playing my Dark Elves and a Cauldron of Blood in my Witch Elves...they however have the advantage that the entire unit becomes Unique when the CoB is in them.

Having said that...the DoomDiver hits...and does D6 wounds to the unit...
If you want to be sporting...you can take one of these hits on your Unicorn.


Hmmmmm...one thing i'm wondering about when i see your diagram.
Was the unicorn correctly placed.... I don't have a book here with me..but i remember something with different size bases and being placed on the side of the unit.

Should it have been

XXXXXXXXXOO
XXXXXXXXXOO
XXXXXXXXX

Or am i completely mistaken here?

[quiestdeus]

Hmmmmm...one thing i'm wondering about when i see your diagram.
Was the unicorn correctly placed.... I don't have a book here with me..but i remember something with different size bases and being placed on the side of the unit.

Should it have been

XXXXXXXXXOO
XXXXXXXXXOO
XXXXXXXXX

Or am i completely mistaken here?

Unicorns come on a 50x50 base, so in a unit of dryads (25x25) they fit inside the unit just fine. The "place to the side of the unit" only applies when the base sizes do not align nicely (pg 98).

[Cold73]

Ah...ok....thanks

[hutobega]

Throwing this out there I play OnG! I use two doom divers. We treat it like a ROCK LOBBA because if the said goblin lands on (the unicorn and the unit) well it counts as a hit to the character and they would get a look out sir roll BUT this is a Unicorn in a unit and it's monstrous cavalry or whatever. This would mean to me since she would have been under the (hit) then the enemy actually can declare it hit the unicorn and no the unit, OR the other way around. Doom divers still have a landing point. and are great for trying to attempt to snipe character within a unit thats what makes them an awesome war machine . BUT since obviously the player (you) doesn't want him to hit your unicorn and if he is arguing i say roll on a dice to see which is hti 1-3 unicorn 4-6 unit or something like that it makes for a friendlier game.

[torn]

Its pretty obvious the d6 hits go to the whole unit applied as per shooting. Doom diver is not a template weapon as such, it just fires like one. The OnG FAQ clears this up nicely.

[hutobega]

ah never saw the faq thanks.

[SquidBoy]

Its pretty obvious the d6 hits go to the whole unit applied as per shooting. Doom diver is not a template weapon as such, it just fires like one. The OnG FAQ clears this up nicely.

tried to search for the FaQ that you are refering to, but didn't find anything about this doom diver issue?
can someone provide a link?

[torn]

I don't have a link but its on the black library site. There is a generic whfb FAQ and then army specific ones.

[hutobega]

The only mention of the faq of doom diver is some one asked if all units are hit under the d6 inch movement that the doom diver gets. and the faq only says the unit in which it landed gets hit. I'm sorry but I believe that if you land directly on a character you can hit the character or get a look our sir rule where applicable. Doom divers are (accurate) for a reason. To me that is kind of like saying well if a cannon is going in a strait line towards a character in a unit that he doesn't get hit but only unit gets hit.

[torn]

Doom diver hits unit, cannonball hits 1 model per rank under its path. Nowhere does it state doom diver hits models, it states the unit. A character becomes a part of the unit.

I can see your reasoning and it does make some sense but technically incorrect.

[frogboy]

I'm not sure the FAQ clears up this question, but then I'm not sure it needs an FAQ anyway, in the rules for Doom Diver it refers to the Unit.

Doom Diver Catapult: The Doom Diver is a stone thrower, but because....'glide and guide' into target, it has some additional rules...

Fire the doom diver as a stone thrower. However no template is used. Place doom diver model on target and then roll for scatter....

After doing this, you may roll a D6 and move the Doom Diver...that many inches...any direction. if any units are touched by the doom divers base....

Here's a link to the FAQ page...

http://www.blacklibrary.com/faqs-and-errata.html

[hutobega]

There are models within a unit don't forget that. "doom diver is treated like a stone thrower" which means it lands on a direct spot. (and the D6 just makes it accurate to a degree) The "if any units are touched by the doom divers base" is bad wording because it makes it look like it can hit multiple units. But if it lands on a character i still believe you can hit that character. At least me and my friends have always played it that way. it's a stone thrower without a template. And some guy can still push his captain or leader out of the way (LOSir) but meh. I can't say I am 100% right or wrong just how i sees it!

:EDIT: Also I know this isn't a commonsense game, which some of the rules are unrealistic in that sense. I also feel that is the doom diver itself is directing is plummet wouldn't he be inclined to say OH THERE IS A THE GENERAL!!! WATCH THIS BOYZ (crashes into general laughing maniacally until he goes squish into the breast plate of said general) Idano. sounds like a good time to a goblin I suppose =P

[frogboy]

The doom diver is only fired as a stone thrower, but because of the additional rules you don't use the template to work out what is hit, in the doom divers rules it states that any unit is hit. What frustrates me is the FAQ, because after reading the rule for the doom diver it seams obvious to me that any unit which the doom diver moves over during its "guide and glide" is hit, but the FAQ contradicts that rule IMO.

Hutobega, your right this is not a common sense game, it's fine if you play it with your friends in another way but i think most people will play it that it's the unit that's hit. Then if they are still confused they will look at the rule book and find out what unit means.

But it says unit, but it says unit, but it says UNIT....

[hutobega]

yeah warhammer is a struggle.

[Rexcrash]

The unit takes D6 hits. Cant pick out characters. Period. I play nightgoblins, and would never try to pull something like this lol.

[hutobega]

Sounds good. I may also be using an older rule in the back of my mind for how it used to be =P but hell I am not a huge Orc and Gobbo player anymore My first love.
:EDIT: Still an amazing machine for killing fast cave and lone monsters omg so much fun.

[SquidBoy]

My Orc and Goblin opponent wanted me to post his point of view and reseach on the subject:

First of I'd just like too thank everyone for their help.
Both of us have tried to figure this out, but after looking in FaQ:s and several forums their seems to be a couple of different interpretations.

From my side of view as a O&G player I thick it comes to what type of shooting attack the Doom diver is.
On page 184 in my (iBook) rulebook (Character chapter, subchapter Combined Units) there are two different types of shooting attacks described ("normal" and unusual).

If the shooting attack is considered normal (shooting attacks that uses BS) - the controlling player decides who is hit.
If the shooting attack is considered unusual (template weapons) - the controlling player is allowed a Look Out Sir save, if the character is of the same troop type.

So the Doom Diver should be able to snipe characters if it is considered an unusual shooting attack.

I have not found any official FAQ that clarifies what type of shooting attack the Doomdiver is. But the ETC FAQ for 2014 ( which I'm not claiming is either right or wrong) it is stated that the Doom Diver is a template weapon:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/11F6 ... urxsyvvhxw

So in the scenario given at the top by Squidboy I think the following should happen:
- If the Doom Divers base only touched the characters base, the character is hit
- If the Doom Divers base only thouches the Dryads, the Dryads takes the hit
- If the base touches both roll of too see if the charcter or the Dryads takes the hit