chaos "berserker" sword - rules clarification

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bark
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chaos "berserker" sword - rules clarification

Post by bark »

hi lads,

a regular opponent uses the "bersekerschwert" (german name, i don´t know the english one sorry)

this blade costs 40 pt, and gives him extra attacks for enemymodels in basecontact. and in challenges only the models he is fighting counts.

but what is, if a model next to him fights in a challenge?

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o152 ... est009.jpg

in above example, he charged me with his chosen chaosknights, as he hadn´t challenged me, i challenged him.
he accepted with unitchampion.
but he insisted on the point that his chaos hero will get the bonusattacks also for the model that is fighting in the challenge against the unit champ.

is that correct?

thx bARK
Brynjolf Irontooth
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Post by Brynjolf Irontooth »

If I remember right, the berserker sword says, gets attacks equal to half the models total unit strength of the models he is in base to base contact with. So only check the total unit stength of the models he is in BtB with to make up his attacks.

So he was right.

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Post by Beithir Seun »

Brynjolf Irontooth wrote:If I remember right, the berserker sword says, gets attacks equal to half the models total unit strength of the models he is in base to base contact with. So only check the total unit stength of the models he is in BtB with to make up his attacks.

So he was right.

Greetz
BI

But it also says that if the character is involved in a challenge then only the Unit Strength of the opponent is used.

By the same token, if the Hero isn't involved in a challenge, he only uses the Unit Strength of the opponents also not in a challenge.

i.e He wouldn't count the Unit Strength of the Treekin Champion involved in the challenge with the Knights Champion.


That's how I see it.
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Brynjolf Irontooth
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Post by Brynjolf Irontooth »

The only exception is when he is involved himself in a challenge.

There the exceptions stop.

So, he will count the US of the TK Champion, even the TK champion is involved in a challenge.

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Post by Beithir Seun »

I'm still incline to disagree. Because the TK champ is fighting in a challenge, he is, for all intents and purposes, not involved in the combat between the units.
The Hero is attacking the unit and so cannot attack the TK champ. Hence, he cannot use the TK champions Unit Strength unless he is actually fighting him because the TK champion is in a challenge and is effectively no longer part of the unit while the challenge lasts.
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Post by Brynjolf Irontooth »

I know it isn't totally feeling right, but the rules aren't talking about the fact the models in BtB has to be able to be hit. Or have to be involved at all.

I know this may be looking a bit RAW, but this the only way you can read it.

Fluffwise a challenge is fought totally seperately. So in fact another Treekin would fill the space where the Champion once stood.

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Post by Beithir Seun »

I can see your point of view and Yes it is RAW I suppose but it doesn't feel right! I personally think the 'Challenge' rules are pretty awful anyway but that's another story... :smirk:
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Post by Naggie »

If models in chalenges are to be counted as "not in the same fight" or however you want to phrase it, shouldn't their spot in the unit fill upp by the guy behind and all that? Often challenges are made so that one less model in the front rank may attack (i.e. the challenger fights there instead).

I think he can use the US of that challenger.

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Post by Beithir Seun »

In normal circumstances the second ranker would fill in, but with Treekin their is no second rank! I can see your argument though Nag, and perhaps I am wrong. I just think its a bit dodgy that you can use the Unit Strength of a model technically not in the fight...

I'm probably going to keep receiving a barrage of arguments against me now..... :( :tear:
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Post by Brynjolf Irontooth »

It is not about who is right and who not.

The point in this kind of discussions is what is the right answer and why.

I was glad you made me doubt. And keep up with your points of view. I won't be always right you know. Though 99/100 I will LOL.

See you at the next rulediscussion.


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Post by Beithir Seun »

I'll meet you there!

P.S I wasn't saying it matters about who provides the right/wrong answer, just so long as a right answer is supplied.

I just always argue my case until someone agrees with me or tells me I'm daft and should just drop it!! :D
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Post by bark »

thx lads,

i recieved the same answer from gw today.

he will get the bonus attacks for models that he touches, even if they fight in a challenge.

thx, topic ready to close.

bark
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