Noble builds

[sirkently]

Well, we have a new game. And once again the wood elves will rule supreme. Time to do some theory crafting. So what are you looking to build with our nobles? Something that would be strong, or fun to play, or preferably both. Share your wisdom with us neophytes.

I will start us off with a couple.

Glade Lord on a Great Stag
Shield, Cavalry spear
Helm of the Hunt. Talisman of Protection, Potion of Toughness
A Befuddlement of Mischiefs, A Resplendence of Luminescents

Hey look, a 2+/5++ wood elf with magical attacks. Great stag looks like the only way to get to 2+, and we can only do it twice. But this character should be good in combat as well.

Glade Lord on Giant Eagle
Shield, Cavalry spear, Swiftshiver Shards
Railarians Mantle, Bow of Loren, Potion of Strength

Hop around a woods staying out of charge arcs and firing away with 8 shots a turn. Think that is what this gives you. Use the potion for a turn of strength 5-7 shooting. Pair with a wizard who can get plague of rust and wipe out an armoured unit.

Share your constructs with us all. Gotta be better than mine.

[MortenLarsen]

Glade Lord on a Great Stag
Shield, Cavalry spear
Helm of the Hunt. Talisman of Protection, Potion of Toughness
A Befuddlement of Mischiefs, A Resplendence of Luminescents

And don't forget +1T and +1W. A T4 elf - haven't seen one of those since 5th. ed... So I'm not sure about the Potion of Toughness. Maybe just take the Sword of Might and drop the spear, and Resplendence of Luminescents?

Glade Lord on Giant Eagle
Shield, Cavalry spear, Swiftshiver Shards
Railarians Mantle, Bow of Loren, Potion of Strength

I really hope these fling characters will be a thing, and the at least two woodlands on the battlefield you should be able to hop around and stille have a decent save - plus T4 and W4!

I'm really set on trying this one out
Shadowdancer
Level 1 Wizard, lore of Battle Magic
Spear of Loec
A Befundlement of Mischiefs
A Resplendence of Luminescents

I'm not set on the magical items. But I think that with the Hammerhand spell this character can do some extremely serious CC.

[kadeton]

The main character I've been using is a Warhawk archer: Glade Lord, Bow of Loren, arcane bodkins, warhawk.

It's basically a lot like the eagle rider posted above, but with several advantages. The biggest is that it's a lone character that isn't Lumbering, so counts as being in skirmish formation, meaning total freedom with 360° sight, shooting and movement. The eagle is locked to only being able to see, shoot, move and charge in its front arc, and I found that to be a bit too awkward.

Because it's a lone character, if it's within 3" of a unit of at least 5 models with the same unit type (cavalry, in this case) it's untargetable. Per the FAQ, that includes stuff like cannons, which can ruin an eagle's day. You can't join a unit of Glade Riders (because of the Fly rule) but you can hang out near them if you need protection from things that might hit you but don't target you.

Another minor benefit to being a skirmisher is that if you flee through your own units, you don't cause Panic tests.

Last (but certainly not least) - the warhawk grants Feigned Flight. Normally if you Flee (or more commonly Fire & Flee) as a charge reaction, you need to Rally at the start of your next turn, which you might fail. With Feigned Flight, you instead Rally automatically at the end of the Flee move - not only do you not have to worry about Rallying in your next turn, this means that even if the charging unit manages to catch you, you just fight them normally instead of getting cut down.

Of course, you do trade off the better melee capabilities of the eagle, and a bit of survivability (1 wound). But so far, between Evasive, Feigned Flight and controlling line of sight by moving over forests, nothing has come close to threatening to kill this character.

(I'm taking arcane bodkins because I think the interaction between the Bow of Loren and swiftshiver shards is a bit unclear, and don't want to argue with opponents about it. I'll reevaluate when it gets a FAQ - in the meantime, my Hawk Lord mostly focuses on cutting down armoured knights.)

[MortenLarsen]

Great takes on the Warhawk vs. Eagle!

[swarmofseals]

Kadeton, I think you make a strong case for the warhawk over the eagle there!

Sirkently, the Stag build is intriguing, although I do wonder if offering a single high armor target just gives something for the opponent to target with whatever anti-armor nonsense they are taking.

I think the Glade Lord on Forest Dragon is going to be a staple as dragons seem very good in general, but I'm really unsure of the best way to build it.

If I'm interpreting the rules correctly, you can't take Armor of Destiny, so the only way to get above a 4+ is to take the Armour of Silvered Steel. Not sure if that is worth it - might be better to just stick with the 4+ from the dragon. Railarian's Mantle seems OK, but is pretty restrictive. Might be better to just run the Talisman of Protection for a lighter but more reliable ward. Merciw's Locus seems like an OK option for defense as well, as it likely means that only actual monsters will be wounding you on anything better than a 5+.

There are a few viable offensive options, but I'm not sure that I love any of them. The Ogre Blade is pretty nice against heavily armored, multiwound targets. On the charge vs. most 2+ save multiwound targets, the Glade Lord with a basic cavalry spear will do .59 wounds (on 3+/3+) while ogre blade will do 2.22 wounds on average to the same target. Against a similar single wound target, the Ogre Blade will do 1.11 wounds. That's not bad, but I'm not sure if it's worth 65 points. Spear of Twilight is OK, but it has to be compared to Ogre Blade. Spear outperforms Ogre Blade vs single wound T5+ infantry/cavalry with a 2+ save, multiwound T5+ infantry/cavalry with a 2+ or 3+ save, or non-infantry/cavalry with T8 or higher (I'm assuming multiwound, I doubt anything with T7+ has a single wound.) Against T4 infantry/cavalry with a 2+ save and against T7 non-infantry/cavalry they tie. Otherwise Ogre Blade is better. Most of the other magical items don't really seem that worth it to me, with perhaps the exception of Dragon Slayer, which should certainly scare any monsters (who are likely to be the main threats to our own dragon). That said I'd expect most enemy ridden monsters to have a ward save, meaning that it's not going to go off that often. If you're hitting on 3+ vs a 5+ ward you're looking at a maybe 1 in 3 chance of a killing blow. Hitting on 4+ vs a 4+ ward it's about a 1 in 6 chance. That's probably enough to merit real consideration given how swingy it will be when it goes off.

Befuddlement of Mischiefs and Annoyance of Netlings both seem good if you plan to go hero/monster hunting. A lot of lords have WS7, and a lot of monsters and heroes have I4, so dinging those down by 1 will let our lord hit on 3+ often and let our mount swing before theirs in a lot of situations where they wouldn't otherwise. Lamentation of Despairs seems like it could be decent depending on the meta.

I really can't wait until our arcane journal comes out and we can get more options!

One other question I wanted to bring up: steed or warhawk for a level 4 wizard with oaken staff?

Oaken staff seems incredibly good against any opponent taking significant magic. Kadeton's arguments for a warhawk largely apply here as well, but I do see a lot of folks planning on escorting a steed-mounted wizard in a unit of Sisters of the Thorn, providing a quite tough bodyguard. It seems to me that you don't really want your SotT roped so close to a forest though, as you lose some of their value as flankers/harrassment. That makes me lean a bit towards a warhawk.

[Ikbuh]

My current list has 3 characters that have all be very good at what they want to do:

Hawklord
Bow of Loren, Bodkins, Great Weapon.

A smooth 215pts and pretty much what's been posted, though I prefer the great weapon because he's still I6 with it and the extra S and AP is good in a scrap. No protection, so be careful with placement.

Horseweaver
Level 4, Steed, Oaken Stave

A chonky 239pts, but she's fast and mobile. I like high magic because I like the threat of drain magic with the staff even if it can be dispelled. I don't think it's worth keeping her with SotT. If I had more points, I'd probably put her on a hawk.

Ruby Stalker
Waystalker with Ruby Ring

Points vary, but mine is 131 with Asyendi and swiftshiver. The value of the stalker can be questioned. Forcing look out sir rolls can really get into an opponent's head, but is it worth it even with unlocking way watchers? Maybe. However, scouting a fireball is absolutely worth it. That is a very powerful thing, and that is with me purposefully ignoring that he can technically target characters in the unit, which I don't recommend trying to pull in friendly games.

[MortenLarsen]

If I'm interpreting the rules correctly, you can't take Armor of Destiny,

I'm pretty sure that if you have access to any armour options, light armour, heavy armour, full plate, shield or barding, or if you start with one of those equipped - then you can buy which ever other armour option?

If you needed the exact same mundane options, then no one can take magical helmets, as there are no mundane equivalents.

So a Lord or a Caption should be able to take Armour of Destiny.

[MortenLarsen]

Could be sweet if we could have some sort of pool of character ideas and maybe with a voting system. Giving the different characters name.

Eldriel the Ruby Stalker (a Waystalker with the Ruby Ring of Ruin)
Someone makes great background fluff for him/her
Equipment

• Hand weapon

• Asrai Longbow

• ...

• ...

• Ruby Ring of Ruin

Used by users: 27 times
Faired well: 15 times
Points earned: 1 zillionbillion

Would make for great collaboration and also be a nifty way for new players to get started?

[Beithir Seun]

If I'm interpreting the rules correctly, you can't take Armor of Destiny

The rule is that only a model equipped with, or with the option to equip, armour or a shield (or barding) can take a magical version. It doesn't specify that you have to have heavy armour to take magical heavy armour (although that did used to be a rule in at least one edition of WHFB).

Basically, you can only give magic armour to characters that are allowed to have mundane armour. If a model isn't allowed to take armour (i.e. wizards) they can't take magic armour to make up for it. Likewise, none of our mount options could be equipped with magic barding because mundane barding is not an option in the WE list (not that there are any suits of magic barding available to WE, but I presume Bretonnians have some!)

[godswearhats]

Sounds great! If you post some builds in here, we can sticky the thread and build from there.

[MortenLarsen]

Sounds great! If you post some builds in here, we can sticky the thread and build from there.

I made a docx with the first two suggestions

[MortenLarsen]

Okay, so now there are 6 characters "ready". I copied from the different ideas from several posts, adding art and a bit of fluff.
Feel free to add whatever, and make notes about what's already there and new ideas

Editing skills sorely needed...

[Thalandor_gaming]

Thank you for the work, the character list and their evaluation is a good idea.

I am a character designer for video games and have a suggestion regarding the fluff.

Please keep the backstory to a minimum.
The stories of first two characters are clipped and precise. They allow the readers to use their imagination to fill in the gaps and create their own characters. I myself like to imaging that Liw isn't as skilled in wardancing as her brother (who had a crazy powerful once-per-battle wardance) but she makes up for it by using magic (Hammerhand), thus becomming equally as deadly as Wychwethyl.

The Waystalkers story works pretty good as well.

But the rest allow for no imagination at all. These characters are the creation of their authors and no one elses. The readers dont need a detailed action scene to create a picture of a character in their mind.
Take Eldrin the Wild. You can cut the entire paragraph below notes and make him much more interesting with less details.

The spellweaver Saelihn the Quyl-Isha can be trimmed down to something like this: She has a deep connection to nature and the weave and excels at directing the life force of other beings. The forest spirits have blessed her with a staff to protect her against the winds of magic (Oaken Staff).

The fluff should be written in simple present or simple past present.

Again, thank you for your time and effort to put this list together.

[MortenLarsen]

I scribbled the first two myself, but when I had copilot making the art, it also made background stories for them and I just kept those.

I'm by no means a capable writer. All of your surgestions sound great, and you are more than welcome to edit the doc

Wasn't much effort other than copying from Copilot and the forum. I did a quick one to get it started

[Thalandor_gaming]

I've worked on the first three characters and added my two cents to their notes.

Should we use the document or this thread for discussions? I would like to talk about the viabilty of the 2+/5++ Great Stag Lord.

By the way, the Ruby Stalker might be even better than I initially thought. Not only does the fireball increase the chance to cause a panic check but also your chance to bypass Look-Out Sir! and truly turn her into a character sniper.

[MortenLarsen]

Maybe discussions here? Might be easier for newcomers to the thread

Although I did just respond to your comments in the doc, but I think it's easier for every one, if it stays in this thread?

The Ruby Stalker is very very interesting!

Also another take on a Shadowdancer mage from another post

Shadowdancer takes lore familiar to get Spectral Doppleganger from Illusion, 2d6 str5, AP-1, AB2, Killing Blow seems fun

Although getting 9+ spell going on a level 1 Wizard might be to risky. With a average roll of 7+1 you come up just short and miss out on a lot of damage

[MortenLarsen]

There is a new format for the docx. Just use the link in my signature

[hardkorek]

How about some multi purpose lord - this is my favorite theoretical build so far

Glade Lord [342 pts]
- Great weapon
- Light armour
- Shield
- Arcane Bodkins
- Great Stag
- Bedazzling Helm
- Bow of Loren
- An Annoyance Of Netlings
- A Befuddlement Of Mischiefs

Have nice damage output + is survivable enough to challenge and tank other characters

[Thalandor_gaming]

I tidied up the Warhawk Glade Lord.

As kadeton has written in detail, the pros of a Warhawk HEAVILY outweigh the Great Eagle. Like there is no competition there. Therefore I removed any mentions of the Great Eagle from that build.

Maybe if the Great Eagle Lord has his unit strength increased to 5 then it could be used as a melee specialist to flank charge a unit and disrupt its rank bonus. Until then just stick with a Warhawk.

When it comes to the best choice of enchanted arrows, I think everyone should think about his or her local meta and equip accordingly. Lots of Bretonnian knights? Arcane Bodkins. Lots of warmachines? Hagbane arrows.

I would also like to suggest using Total War: Warhammers classification of characters: Melee specialists, missile specialist and hybrid weapon specialist. Spellcasteres could also be classified as Support, Missile or Melee. Using a simple classification like this would make it immediatly clear for any reader what the idea behind a character build is.

[Malrith]

Been running this basic Dragon Lord to great success.

Glade Lord
Forest Dragon
Spear of Twilight
Merciw's Locus
Netlings
Despair

Absolute lord killer. Hit on 3's, wound on 3's. Challenging their solo lord means you're not getting hit back, and with you on a dragon you likely also win unit size.

[MortenLarsen]

So....

Added a contents page and specialist classes (the hybrid class is a bit difficult, are you a missile, melee or hybrid?)

I redid Illitran as Malrith's dragon lord and added the new Stag lord from hardkorek

Also redid fluff for most of the chars

[hardkorek]

Another multipurpose one but on warhawk this time. Less punch but more mobile. Can deliver -1 WS and Initiative more easily where it's needed.

++ Characters [320 pts] ++

Glade Lord [320 pts]
- Great weapon
- Light armour
- Arcane Bodkins
- Warhawk
- Armour of Silvered Steel
- Bow of Loren
- 4x Charmed Shield
- An Annoyance Of Netlings
- A Befuddlement Of Mischiefs

[MortenLarsen]

Another multipurpose one but on warhawk this time. Less punch but more mobile. Can deliver -1 WS and Initiative more easily where it's needed.

++ Characters [320 pts] ++

Glade Lord [320 pts]
- Great weapon
- Light armour
- Arcane Bodkins
- Warhawk
- Armour of Silvered Steel
- Bow of Loren
- 4x Charmed Shield
- An Annoyance Of Netlings
- A Befuddlement Of Mischiefs

Never thought of taking 4 Charmed Shields but 20 pts. for four 5++ saves aren't bad at all. If you can limit them to one per turn, they can almost stretch an entire game.

He will be added!

[Dennisdegooijer]

Another multipurpose one but on warhawk this time. Less punch but more mobile. Can deliver -1 WS and Initiative more easily where it's needed.

++ Characters [320 pts] ++

Glade Lord [320 pts]
- Great weapon
- Light armour
- Arcane Bodkins
- Warhawk
- Armour of Silvered Steel
- Bow of Loren
- 4x Charmed Shield
- An Annoyance Of Netlings
- A Befuddlement Of Mischiefs

I don't think this is possible, since you can take only 1 magic item per category, unless stated explicitly, which is the case with Obsidian Lodestone.
EDIT: Nevermind, I'm an idiot. If only I read 2 paragraphs further :P

[MortenLarsen]

EDIT: Nevermind, I'm an idiot. If only I read 2 paragraphs further :P

No idiots here. I had to look it up again also. We are all learning