Heads Exploding! Age of Sigmar Rules Released Online

Discuss anything related to the Asrai, our forests, or camps around the Old World in here.

Moderator: Council of Elders

Re: Heads Exploding! Age of Sigmar Rules Released Online

Postby frogboy » 04 Jul 2015, 18:34

Kaese wrote:The lack of point system is really bad considering the fact that this is no role playing game. This basically means no competitive gaming unless somebody is willing to do complete unit balancing system. I really cant see any future in this new game system unless GW includes some type of point system.

With right kind of people this game could be fun, but if there is even one "power gamer" in the group it can turn into a real nightmare. :(


Until more games are played we won't know but here's a post I read on the Warhammer forum which sounds like a good answer, yes I stole it :)

WhispersofBlood wrote:
Squigkikka wrote:Yes, there's good stuff in these rules. The problem is the package as a whole. If there had been point values assigned to these units, I would've felt a lot better about it!


You're thinking inside the box too much, sure point values make you comfortable, but are they the best way to "balance" a game? Mostly they just reward meta research, and match up luck. What did point values do other than pretend to be a measure of something that is constantly shifting game to game ie; value? What was the value of a cannon if there were no multi-wound models? What if there were only multi-wound models?

In AoS if there is no or just a limited value to your cannon you simply don't deploy it, and put something down that represents better value. If you build a framework in which to play (max warscrolls or max duplicates or something) Each game should be closer in terms of army composition because they will be responding directly to what is on the table, not what the internet has decided should be taken based on meta considerations.

I admit having a larger collection is a massive benefit now, vs the smaller benefit before. But now instead of scouring the internet for weeks to decide on the best list, you can spend that time building and painting. Personally that sounds way better to me.
Its been too long since we burned a heretic, witch hunt anyone !??

sentinalofthewoods wrote:yes, unicorn riders that shoot rainbows..hell yeah
frogboy
Elder of the Council
User avatar Elder of the Council (1) Gold Donator (1)
 
Posts: 2019
Joined: 08 Aug 2010, 21:52
Location: South Wales, United Kingdom

Re: Heads Exploding! Age of Sigmar Rules Released Online

Postby razorfate » 04 Jul 2015, 18:42

Some of the rules are good. Most of them is utter b.sh.t. Yeah the daemon player shall dance to get rerolls to hit, or better if she/he can coarce his/her opponent to join, he can get rerolls to wound too. And dwarf players shall grow beard to get rerolls. I am very dissapointed.
razorfate
Trusted Bowman
Trusted Bowman
 
Posts: 181
Joined: 07 Oct 2014, 18:50

Re: Heads Exploding! Age of Sigmar Rules Released Online

Postby frogboy » 04 Jul 2015, 19:26

Humours yes but not completely ludicrous, we already see orc generals shouting Waaagh as there troops charge. It's a game for kids after all. You can always house rule that bit anyway
Its been too long since we burned a heretic, witch hunt anyone !??

sentinalofthewoods wrote:yes, unicorn riders that shoot rainbows..hell yeah
frogboy
Elder of the Council
User avatar Elder of the Council (1) Gold Donator (1)
 
Posts: 2019
Joined: 08 Aug 2010, 21:52
Location: South Wales, United Kingdom

Re: Heads Exploding! Age of Sigmar Rules Released Online

Postby Tidings » 04 Jul 2015, 20:28

On those 'fun' rules, I just think of them as always being there. If they simple wrote the rule "may reroll hit rolls" then would that make it better? It's just giving the unit the benefit without the dance or staring contest or shouting.

It's like the old rule about ork vehicles moving faster if they are painted red. It's just for fun, but if you're too serious to just enjoy it then tell your opponent they don't have to make a fool out of themselves, they can always have that bonus.

It's not like they gave a unit some OP ability saying "yeah but no player is actually gonna dance, right?"

-Tidings
Tidings
Newcomer
User avatar Newcomer
 
Posts: 18
Joined: 04 Jul 2015, 07:37
Location: Foster City, California

Re: Heads Exploding! Age of Sigmar Rules Released Online

Postby Aezeal » 04 Jul 2015, 20:41

Well Archaos did what my tournament organiser did after my first game: start counting wounds which seems way more fair than comparing models.

Joolz wrote:
Aezeal wrote:
So current army selection rules can be severly abused (I could have put 5 shadowdancers instead of the 9 WW and it would be even more off). However I do think there is a lot of strategic potential in the game.. there are a lot of special rules on the models that allow for lots of tactical choices even though they are different than in 8th edition fantasy.


Okay... I'm thoroughly confused right now. Is it based on model count? So hypothetically I can slam down Orion and my buddy just a Skaven Slave?

I admit it's a very flexible system but is it fair???


Wellll.. no it's not fair unless you put some limitations in
- counting wounds instead of models makes it better (not really balanced but would be WAY better).
- a limit on wounds in monsters and heroes would further improve it.
- just playing equal wounds games and thus avoiding the outnumbered rules (unless you play some sort of campaign where small armies are meant to go against big armies) seems smart too.

frogboy wrote:Excellent Archeos, nice first game review :thumbsup:


Actually I was first.. it was short but I can't help I won in the first fight in my 2nd turn ;)

Avalon101 wrote:I am really hyped for the synergy between units after I've read the army rules again. Hoping they balance the game a bit so that it doesn't just get sidelined by 10 tree man vs. 10 bloodthirsters.


The synergy between all the sylvaneth seems really nice especially.

Blackcat wrote:Everyone seems excited at my local store but I just can't get onboard with this new edition. Everyone just cares they can play their old armies but for me I care about the gameplay. There is no more tactical choice it's just run at the enemy. I feel like the game would be just the same as if you flipped a coin to decide the winner. There seems no point in playing fantasy at all anymore because it is just like 40k. If I wanted to play 40k I would (and I do). The loss of stats is rubbish and I feel like GW just took a dump on 30 years of history.

I feel like everyone is keen for it but honestly apart from painting the odd model I'm not keen on AoS at all.
8th ed all the way!


This isn't really true, with the command abilities, spells, movement and combined charges etc there still is a lot of tactics also charging is an advantage in most cases so positioning to get the charge is still important.
There really ar not much stats lost in the end 4 stats for the elf and then a few stats for the weapon it uses makes it pretty much the same. I think changing the WS/BS/S/T to the to hit and to wound models isn't that big of a change in the end.

Kaese wrote:The lack of point system is really bad considering the fact that this is no role playing game. This basically means no competitive gaming unless somebody is willing to do complete unit balancing system. I really cant see any future in this new game system unless GW includes some type of point system.

With right kind of people this game could be fun, but if there is even one "power gamer" in the group it can turn into a real nightmare. :(


Yeah agree unless you all power game or all NOT power game it will not be good. There rules basicly just don't cover balance well enough and that is not good. In the other topic I was having the discussion with hyarion about model strenght and not getting his point so I was just like: OK Í'll try my point of view on the first victem. As I said he had deployed 1 character and 28 troops. I had with me 1 dragon, 5 treemen, 4 shadowdancers, waywatcehr lord, 2 branchwraiths, Orion, multipel spellweavers, lord on dragon, lord with 2HW etc.. after placing Durthu, dragon, BSB and spellweaver I decided not to push it further.... but even this way I CRUSHED him and won turn 2 with the outnumbered rules.. but even without being outnumbered I would have tabled him in turn 4 max . If I had brought all the heroes he would not have lasted past turn 3 for sure.

again: my first idea's would be:
- counting wounds instead of models makes it better (not really balanced but would be WAY better).
- a limit on wounds in monsters and heroes would further improve it.
- just playing equal wounds games and thus avoiding the outnumbered rules (unless you play some sort of campaign where small armies are meant to go against big armies) seems smart too.

razorfate wrote:Some of the rules are good. Most of them is utter b.sh.t. Yeah the daemon player shall dance to get rerolls to hit, or better if she/he can coarce his/her opponent to join, he can get rerolls to wound too. And dwarf players shall grow beard to get rerolls. I am very dissapointed.


I\m happy we just don't get that BS and I find it a bit insulting to those who play it.. but ok. I found OUR warscroll VERY well done.
I'\d just house rule the orc gets the charge distance, the dwarf gets the reroll and the deamon the reroll to hit but not the to wound.
Aezeal
Wild Hunter
Wild Hunter
 
Posts: 1502
Joined: 22 Aug 2014, 13:54

Re: Heads Exploding! Age of Sigmar Rules Released Online

Postby Tuladin » 04 Jul 2015, 20:47

It's probably just them thinking their funny. When the dust settles they can update the pdfs to get rid of the nonsense. Rules changes and adjustments are going to be crazy fast now. I'm optimistic, but I'm still in shock they destroyed so much history.
Tuladin
Trusted Bowman
User avatar Trusted Bowman
 
Posts: 155
Joined: 11 Jun 2014, 15:43

Re: Heads Exploding! Age of Sigmar Rules Released Online

Postby frogboy » 04 Jul 2015, 20:58

Not that I'm ignoring that massive post you just wrote Aezeal but I don't get why everyone and their Nan is trying to be the first cat to come up with a "balancing act" for the game.

The game don't need balance, your opponent reaches in his army case and drops a chariot, now do you put a block of eternal guard down hoping to tie it up and hopefully still be useful to in other situations or do you drop a dragon, yes it will kill that chariot and other stuff but then he's going to drop a daemon prince but you might not have anything else to counter. What i'm saying is you got to have one eye on the drops and one on the missions. If you box clever you could well draw out all his trump cards and then hit him with a combo that will leave his grand kids shaking.

It's not warhammer, with points and lists! So please don't try to turn it into a dead game!!!
Its been too long since we burned a heretic, witch hunt anyone !??

sentinalofthewoods wrote:yes, unicorn riders that shoot rainbows..hell yeah
frogboy
Elder of the Council
User avatar Elder of the Council (1) Gold Donator (1)
 
Posts: 2019
Joined: 08 Aug 2010, 21:52
Location: South Wales, United Kingdom

Re: Heads Exploding! Age of Sigmar Rules Released Online

Postby Tuladin » 04 Jul 2015, 21:17

Anyone else blown away by the prices? $250 for the starter set. $280 for a plastic box with foam in it. $140 for 20 pots of paint. Seriously?

I got into this hobby when my little brothers went out and bought the brets/lizards starter set with their saved up allowance. Good luck getting new players with those prices. I thought getting rid of rules/army books was supposed to help get people into the hobby. That didn't mean go jack up prices on everything else.
Tuladin
Trusted Bowman
User avatar Trusted Bowman
 
Posts: 155
Joined: 11 Jun 2014, 15:43

Re: Heads Exploding! Age of Sigmar Rules Released Online

Postby Aezeal » 04 Jul 2015, 21:43

frogboy wrote:Not that I'm ignoring that massive post you just wrote Aezeal but I don't get why everyone and their Nan is trying to be the first cat to come up with a "balancing act" for the game.

The game don't need balance, your opponent reaches in his army case and drops a chariot, now do you put a block of eternal guard down hoping to tie it up and hopefully still be useful to in other situations or do you drop a dragon, yes it will kill that chariot and other stuff but then he's going to drop a daemon prince but you might not have anything else to counter. What i'm saying is you got to have one eye on the drops and one on the missions. If you box clever you could well draw out all his trump cards and then hit him with a combo that will leave his grand kids shaking.

It's not warhammer, with points and lists! So please don't try to turn it into a dead game!!!


Well another lng post for you frogboy

Clearly it's not warhammer.. but if I'd used all models I had today my opponent would have had a bad day and not a fun game, actually that happend even now. Balanced somewhat equal games (at least form the start) make for a fun game I think. Not to mention games that are pay-2-win are generally not fun for those with less cash too. it's not about turning it into a dead game, I think AoS has much potential and I REALLY like the warscrolls I've seen.. but the rules... they are severly lacking.

The strategy you assume there is present in army selection and deploying doesn't exist as you think it does. Sure deployment can be important BUT: There is really no reason to keep an eye on the drops.. you just ALWAYS need to place the strongest single models you have to keep your count low. If you have much more monsters and hero's available you will just win the game because you will probably be outnumbered while still having a way stronger army. Please read my "battle report" again:

My opponent today brought a regular old 1K points WE army and ended up deploying 5 dryads, 6 GR, 10 GG, 5 WR and 1 spellweaver (what used to a somewhat balanced army', I was WE too and had read the rules, and accoringly I brought 6 treemen, a dragon, orion, 3 mages, 4 shadowdancers, 2 branchwriaths and some lords and of course just tons and tons of rank and file models.
I could have placed all my heroes and monsters. (I didn't in the end.. I played with Lord on dragon, Durthu, spellweaver, BSB, 9 waywatchers and 5 WR).
He ended up outnumbering (I had 18 models, he had 29 models) me but my Durthu and my Dragon had more wounds than 50% of his army combined.. I chose assasination and his only mage ended up being my target, he HAD to pick that one as the target.
MY TURN 1
Durthu casts his command ability and places a sylvaneth wood next to him. My dragon and a few shots of the waywatchers killed the 5 dryads.
HIS TURN 1
He charged the the dragon with wild riders and did 1 wound the dragon did 9 wounds and killed 4 of his 5 charging WR (these have 2 wounds).
My TURN 2
My mage moved into range of his mage and cast a spell doing 1 mortal wound to his mage (the target of my assasination). Durthu succeeded in a long charge on that mage after summoning a wood behind his lines (if he tried to run I could teleport there with Durthy next turn, since the charge succeeded this wasn´t needed. Durthu´s attacks with his swords did 12 wounds (2 out of 3 hit, then 2/2 wouded... then each of those 2 wounds became 6 damage because that is what Durthu does when not wounded yet. That was even before my impaling talons did anything)
GAME WON BY ME

So I hope you see the problem (well it´s only a problem if you want somewhat equal games and not pay2win, that ofc depends on you).
A player with access to A LOT of of high strenght (in whatever way, wounds, damage out put, special abilities) per model can hardly loose if the other guy places a lot of old rank n files models with the current rules. If this isn´t a problem for you then that is fine but I´m pretty sure a large majority of players doesn´t like that a lot. I know EVERY player in the room today understood this when the read the rules (but most hadn´t read them before and just brought a 8th edition army which had as known large limitations on how much lords, monsters etc you can bring). Translating my army into old rules I would probably have had 90% lord choices :D. My opponent understood it too. we both just kept checking the rules if there was ANYTHING he could have done to prevent this with the models he had at his disposal... untill I CRUSHED HIM without ANY resistance. At which point the organiser of the tournament decided this would not make a fun game as it was so he started to count wounds instead of models for the next game. 10 out of 10 players in the room decided this manner of army building does not make for a fun game. Sure if you play with a friend you shouldn´t do this. But I think the rules themselves SHOULD somewhat balance the game. I mean even I can´t know how much heroes, monsters and lords etc my regular opponents will bring... I would prefer not to be on the recieving end of what I did to my poor victem though thus I will be bringing strong stuff to prevent it since I KNOW my opponent would be completely following the rules if he spends cash and brings 10 blood thirsters, 10 treemen and 10 cannons or something similar.

Maybe you need to play a game against someone with a competative attitude to understand it better, or just try dividing your old army up in 2 giving 1 side a mage and a lord and the rest all other mosnters and lords and then both sides half the rest of the units and just try what I just said, deploying first the strong stuff with the side which has that. At a certain point the weak side will have 10 monsters and lords and the other side about 50/60 models, the place some regular troops for fun on the strong side but you will still be out numbered and then pick the most easy sudden death rules (assasination or endure that will probaby be). Just give it a try... it will NOT take long I promiss you and it will be VERY enlightning. If you let your wife or child play the strong side it will be clear quickly that for the weaker side it´s a bit of a waste of time... also for the strong side btw... I had NO fun in the game I won today. I just had to see if this was how it worked.. and it did.


Tuladin wrote:It's probably just them thinking their funny. When the dust settles they can update the pdfs to get rid of the nonsense. Rules changes and adjustments are going to be crazy fast now. I'm optimistic, but I'm still in shock they destroyed so much history.


Yeah if they (unlike in the past) quickly update the problematic rules this could be a great game.

Tuladin wrote:Anyone else blown away by the prices? $250 for the starter set. $280 for a plastic box with foam in it. $140 for 20 pots of paint. Seriously?

I got into this hobby when my little brothers went out and bought the brets/lizards starter set with their saved up allowance. Good luck getting new players with those prices. I thought getting rid of rules/army books was supposed to help get people into the hobby. That didn't mean go jack up prices on everything else.


It´s 100 euro´s here for the starter set and 66 euro´s for the 20 paints. The starter set seems cheap for the models you get with it compared to regular mini´s, 47 mini´s with 2 very large monster size models and a few other models which are certainly larger than average elves or humans.
No I can´t complain about the price, if I´d play either of those armies I´d probably get 2 starter set right away.. even for 1 army it seems a good deal (a GW monster often costs 40-50 euro´s by itself and 10 regular infantry models (smaller than these) usually 30(. If you sell the other army on ebay you will probably be able to ask 30 euro at least.
Last edited by Aezeal on 04 Jul 2015, 21:50, edited 1 time in total.
Aezeal
Wild Hunter
Wild Hunter
 
Posts: 1502
Joined: 22 Aug 2014, 13:54

Re: Heads Exploding! Age of Sigmar Rules Released Online

Postby Kaese » 04 Jul 2015, 21:50

I'm not trying to say the game is bad without the point system for balancing the armies. It looks like it can be a lot of fun with people that share the same idea of a fun game. I just don't understand what GW was thinking about when they invented this game :roll:

Big part of the older player would like to keep the game as it was in 8th edition with little more simplified ruleset, or at least this is how I see it. So the age of sigmar is clearly not for the old fans.

While older gamers can balance the game on their own, I really don't think this is the case with young guys that are not familiar with miniature games. Starting youg players are usually short on money and buy something cool and/or powerful when they have the money. This will lead to a wery weird army compositions that will have completely different power level. In a gaming group this will lead to lot of frustration if one player has over powered army and either wins all the games or needs to leave some of the cool units out. Starting players really don't have the money to gather extra troops to sit on shelves.

So I don't really see who is the target group for this game. It is cool that GW decides it is only a miniature company, but the miniatures will not sell if there is no game to play. Too bad, as I really liked both FB and 40k. Now it just looks like they care less about the customers and everything is about profits. :(
Kaese
Newcomer
User avatar Newcomer
 
Posts: 67
Joined: 17 Jan 2015, 19:00

Re: Heads Exploding! Age of Sigmar Rules Released Online

Postby Aezeal » 04 Jul 2015, 21:53

Kaese wrote:I'm not trying to say the game is bad without the point system for balancing the armies. It looks like it can be a lot of fun with people that share the same idea of a fun game. I just don't understand what GW was thinking about when they invented this game :roll:

Big part of the older player would like to keep the game as it was in 8th edition with little more simplified ruleset, or at least this is how I see it. So the age of sigmar is clearly not for the old fans.

While older gamers can balance the game on their own, I really don't think this is the case with young guys that are not familiar with miniature games. Starting youg players are usually short on money and buy something cool and/or powerful when they have the money. This will lead to a wery weird army compositions that will have completely different power level. In a gaming group this will lead to lot of frustration if one player has over powered army and either wins all the games or needs to leave some of the cool units out. Starting players really don't have the money to gather extra troops to sit on shelves.

So I don't really see who is the target group for this game. It is cool that GW decides it is only a miniature company, but the miniatures will not sell if there is no game to play. Too bad, as I really liked both FB and 40k. Now it just looks like they care less about the customers and everything is about profits. :(


Well these rules certainly will make them sell big models if anyone buys an army for this. Only buying treemen would be one of the best ways to start a WE army.
Aezeal
Wild Hunter
Wild Hunter
 
Posts: 1502
Joined: 22 Aug 2014, 13:54

Re: Heads Exploding! Age of Sigmar Rules Released Online

Postby Akorndr2 » 04 Jul 2015, 23:03

I dont understand why people are playing at low model counts. If i played my current 8th ed army i drop about 80 models dow at 2400 pts allows my opponent to drop about 110 models on me.

But i put the balance on us will i take orion sisters of twilight and a wizard yes but i will also drop my army on the table i like the feeling of playing 3k pts without restrictions. I imagine in a tournament the organizers will say give us a list with these restrictions and we will go from there. Dont be a dick or i will go ork on you
Akorndr2
Newcomer
Newcomer
 
Posts: 30
Joined: 08 Dec 2014, 12:41

Re: Heads Exploding! Age of Sigmar Rules Released Online

Postby Billthesurly » 04 Jul 2015, 23:06

Ramesesis wrote:I may try this out with my son but my gaming buddy and I will stick to 8th and get KoW.

The BIG problem with every model matters is scale. What you had was a game that represented battles between several hundreds or even thousands. Real field battles like the Fields of the Pelennor.
AoS is about one chieftain leading his small warband into another smal skirmish of which there are thousands being fought. It is not epic anymore.


Amen and amen. Couldn't agree more. This may be fun to play in a very beer-and-pretzels kind of way but this is not classical tabletop wargaming.
So it's no longer the BRB, now it's the DERB. (Digital Edition Rule Book) I am all in for 9th Age.
Billthesurly
Elder of the Council
User avatar Elder of the Council (1)
 
Posts: 1324
Joined: 20 Jan 2012, 14:31
Location: Baton Rouge, Louisiana, Ministry of Profound Bloviation.

Re: Heads Exploding! Age of Sigmar Rules Released Online

Postby Rainsong » 04 Jul 2015, 23:09

It says that all 'Wanderer Wizards' can cast the Summon Hounds spell. So Spellweavers, Shadowdancers and Sisters of the Thorn can cast it. Could be fun to model the 'Hounds' as spites or a bunch or forest animals that can be summoned at will. Pretty cool.
Rainsong
Newcomer
Newcomer
 
Posts: 21
Joined: 18 Aug 2010, 10:16

Re: Heads Exploding! Age of Sigmar Rules Released Online

Postby Nicholas Nitro » 05 Jul 2015, 01:17

I just played my first game, and it was fun and competitive. Had I used my "Wanderer Formation" ambush rule, I think I probably would have won. Instead I deployed normally and my opponent (Brets) did most of his damage with his trebuchet, but also some significant damage with his knights. The ability to shoot into (and out of) combat keeps glade guard and way-watchers competitive. I like being able to place as many models as my opponent or I want. Eventually we both just agreed to stop. The game is self balancing.
"Herald of Athel Loren" Limited Edition Book #0165
AoS is the greatest!
Nicholas Nitro
Horsemaster
User avatar Horsemaster
 
Posts: 335
Joined: 19 May 2014, 07:35
Location: Frozen Forests of Chugiak, Alaska

Re: Heads Exploding! Age of Sigmar Rules Released Online

Postby Sidewinder » 05 Jul 2015, 10:51

*Unbelievable, un-freaking-believable.
GW designs a game to produce fun, casual, "beer and pretzel" games for the living room, basement, or wherever. A game that, before it starts both sides can agree on what their going to play, the terrain they are going to use, etc. They've already decided if they are going to play each other. And what's the first thing we do? We arrange tournaments. All options are taken away from the players. Jim can't say, "Aw, come on Joe. Are you really going to play that? Are we doing WAAC or what?" The only option Jim has is to not play against his assigned opponent. If he does that he automatically loses. Heck, he might even be thrown out of the tournament. So, now a game that was designed for creating a fun shared experience becomes a game all about winning.

We start fretting about "balance" . If there was balance in point based games, everyone would play Lyrans as likely as they would play Federation; everyone would play Italy as much as Germany. If there was balance, Space Marines wouldn't be the number one selling army and Beastmen wouldn't be the worst selling army. If there was balance even in our own book, Treekin models wouldn't be collecting dust on shelves. Balance is an illusion. Play chess, checkers, or go if you want real balance.

Warhammer Fantasy roots is a combination of historical miniature wargaming and Dungeons & Dragons. Back then most of wargaming wasn't point based. What one fielded on the table was representative of the troops that were at the actual battle. With AoS, GW is giving us an opportunity to play a non-point based game. Let's at least give it a full hearted try before we start distorting it with house rules.
So, where does the balance come from? The balance comes from us. We talk to our friend about what he or she is playing. We get each other's opinions about what each of us has and whether this would balance. If they don't then we adjust. The more we play, the more experience we have and we can adjust accordingly. Of course the more fun way is simply to get into an arms race. That would be the incentive for me to finally assemble and paint all those models I haven't gotten around to yet.
Also, If I've arranged a game with a WAAC player, I'll bring a WAAC list. If it's someone less experienced, has fewer models, etc., then I'll place models on the table accordingly.

We are accustomed to building a list that requires core units; we even refer to it as the "core tax". For years we have built our model collection filling core requirements first and then the really cool models we wanted all along. To address a fast growing market, GW has flipped that. With AoS, a new player will get the really cool models first, and as he or she build their list, they will add the rank and file later. They also require fewer models to begin playing.

"Not going to take this game serious." That's being way too serious about AoS. I think in general, we are way too serious about this hobby of ours. What's the harm if someone has to cluck like a duck or whatever to get some benefit? If that person has a big enough sense of humor to choose a unit that that is a requirement, what right do any of us have to spoil the fun by saying, "Oh no, you don't have to do that". Is this too embarrassing for us. Let's not be hoity-toity about it. Relax and enjoy the fun. After all, it doesn't matter how finely detailed our models are, it doesn't matter that the painting is museum quality, to an outsider, they see grown men playing with little boys' toys. I would rather they see us grown men laughing and smiling with surprise and delight when one of our own breaks out into clucking session rather than wearing a serious scowl while we play with our "toy soldiers". Who knows, maybe they would like to join in on the fun? So, I think we all should step back a bit, adopt a teeny bit of a sense of humor and try not to make AoS into what it isn't.
**Unbelievable, un-freaking-beleivable.
*(rant on) **(rant off)

Aezeal, I'm glad you had an AoS game and I'm very glad that you posted the results. While reading it, I realized I would have done all the same things. I would have read the rules and taken a list to smash face. And like you, I would have taken advantage of the situation once I had seen what my opponent had. I also, would have not stopped putting models on the table even after I realized I had the game in the bag. However, I hope I would not have gloated about it afterwards. But I'm not sure that I wouldn't have.
Aezeal wrote:So: 18 vs 29 models... obviuosly I was the weaker and outnumbered side :D.


But thanks to your post, I realize the type of player that I've become, that I am, and that I no longer want to be.
Favorite hobby - playing GW games
2nd favorite hobby - complaining about GW
Sidewinder
Horsemaster
Horsemaster
 
Posts: 400
Joined: 31 May 2013, 06:06

Re: Heads Exploding! Age of Sigmar Rules Released Online

Postby Akorndr2 » 05 Jul 2015, 11:15

This guy is correct. Also im going to use the wood elf ambush rules stick it with my glade lord on a dragon cam finally use my models i bought and converted a long time ago
Akorndr2
Newcomer
Newcomer
 
Posts: 30
Joined: 08 Dec 2014, 12:41

Re: Heads Exploding! Age of Sigmar Rules Released Online

Postby Aezeal » 05 Jul 2015, 11:37

Akorndr2 wrote:I dont understand why people are playing at low model counts. If i played my current 8th ed army i drop about 80 models dow at 2400 pts allows my opponent to drop about 110 models on me.

But i put the balance on us will i take orion sisters of twilight and a wizard yes but i will also drop my army on the table i like the feeling of playing 3k pts without restrictions. I imagine in a tournament the organizers will say give us a list with these restrictions and we will go from there. Dont be a dick or i will go ork on you


Sure you should drop troops if the opponent keeps dropping.. but keeping the lower model count is nice since it gives you the option to get the outnumbered options and at least prevents the opponent from getting them. If you would put 5000 points or something like that in the old game on the table and yet you are outnumbered.. the endurance will be a near certain win since you only need to have 1 model left at the end of turn 6 for example. But my main gripe is that in 8th there was a limit to the number of real tought stuff you could place... even if you had the cash to buy 10 dragons. Now there is no such thing. I'm sure you can imagine it could be frustrating if you had 1 dragon (and proud of it since you just painted it high standard - this is not me btw I paint terrible) and then the opponent dumps down 10 dragon lords (unpainted to add insult to injury) and an another with the sisters (btw I don't think there are actual special characters in the gamerules.. so there would really be nothing to prevent you from using the sisters 11 times, I even thing that a new player not into the old lore has no real way of knowing they are special compared to the dragonlord, same for orion.. got 2 orion models.. nothign prevents you from playing with them)..

You won't do this to a friend.. but if you play at the store and have a competative opponent... similar (probably lesse extend) things could happen.
For my self: I've Always tried to make as strong an army as I could within the rules we played with. These rules don't really give me any boudaries to limit what I can use. I personally would be annoyed if I limited myself and then lost the game because I let my opponent have a better army. I would also be annoyed if games went like the one yesterday: placing a strong army and having no opposistion what soever. The old point system made you start with a (somewhat) balanced army. These modelcount rules are not sufficient for that. I still think the rest of the AoS rules can be fun, but I think that making the 4 rules PDF a bit bigger and covering more holes in it would have been a better idea and I hope GW will do that.


Sidewinder:
I understand you.. but it's now very hard to see if the armies are balanced even if you try.

Maybe you just play the game and you have fun and then it's easier for you to enjoy the game.. but I like a competative game. The rules made it so that in 8th edition both sides had similar strengths and thus I knew that if I won a lot I was a good player. No battle has ever been easy at 1500 or 2000 point and I I liked that. I am serious about the hobby: I don't have much spare time. If I'm going to spend my time on something I need to enjoy it a lot else I'd just read more books, play computer game etc etc I don't like painting much so I don't do that and focus on the games themselves since I like those a lot.

Btw I've not gloated about the win, -the smilie was there to illustrate how ridiculous the rules are. I said sorry to my opponent a few times and during the game deployment and during the game I was trying to see how he could do anything against me but there was no chance, I didn't loose a single model (he had bad dice when his GG shot my WR in this turn. I could only play 1 game then but the rest of they guys present had more games to play, so when we talked to the organiser/Judge after the game (we where finished first obviously) it was clear that he (and probably all other players) prefer somewhat equal games where you have to work to get a win. Which is why he decided to could wounds instead of models so the other games would be more fun. I actually have no idea if others had similar problems I think others just brought the army they had last used in a 8th edition game so there would have been less problems on other tables. But it's a bit odd you need to take an army build with 8th edition rules to have a fun game in AoS :D.

You mention they wil buy the cool models first and then add rank and file. But if they actually buy not to have models on the shelf but to have an effective army they will not buy RnF models at all. I know most here might not do that but people like me who just want to play the game there would not be much reason for that.
Aezeal
Wild Hunter
Wild Hunter
 
Posts: 1502
Joined: 22 Aug 2014, 13:54

Re: Heads Exploding! Age of Sigmar Rules Released Online

Postby frogboy » 05 Jul 2015, 12:02

Well hasn't someone all grown up! Fair play Sidewinder when I first seen your name next to a post I was dreading reading it TBH nice to see you back :thumbsup:

As for the rest of you scum bags... :lol:

Aezeal your posts are longer than the actual rules of the game lol

Err I did have something constructive to add here but I've forgotten now.
Its been too long since we burned a heretic, witch hunt anyone !??

sentinalofthewoods wrote:yes, unicorn riders that shoot rainbows..hell yeah
frogboy
Elder of the Council
User avatar Elder of the Council (1) Gold Donator (1)
 
Posts: 2019
Joined: 08 Aug 2010, 21:52
Location: South Wales, United Kingdom

Re: Heads Exploding! Age of Sigmar Rules Released Online

Postby Aezeal » 05 Jul 2015, 12:58

frogboy wrote:Well hasn't someone all grown up! Fair play Sidewinder when I first seen your name next to a post I was dreading reading it TBH nice to see you back :thumbsup:

As for the rest of you scum bags... :lol:

Aezeal your posts are longer than the actual rules of the game lol

Err I did have something constructive to add here but I've forgotten now.


It was probably something along the lines of: "Ah I see now Aezeal, you where right as always", to bad you forgot to post it :D
Aezeal
Wild Hunter
Wild Hunter
 
Posts: 1502
Joined: 22 Aug 2014, 13:54

Re: Heads Exploding! Age of Sigmar Rules Released Online

Postby thunderbow » 05 Jul 2015, 23:04

http://minimayhem-theblog.blogspot.be/2 ... ref=fb&m=1
A very enjoyable read. The man doesn't say anything that hasn't been already said partially, but this is a very nice wrap-up with some original bits for which I felt the need to share with you fine Elves (or should I say Aelfs, blargh).
"It is easy to stride The Right Path"
(Lao Tse)

Image
thunderbow
Trusted Bowman
User avatar Trusted Bowman
 
Posts: 128
Joined: 10 Nov 2010, 23:29
Location: Guarding the Oak

Re: Heads Exploding! Age of Sigmar Rules Released Online

Postby Aezeal » 06 Jul 2015, 08:13

Thunderbow : Hmm I agree on the thing about points and balance (obviously, though points aren't needed... just some sort of balance). But I disagree on most other stuff. It's an opinion though, I guess he'll be leaving the hobby :D.
Aezeal
Wild Hunter
Wild Hunter
 
Posts: 1502
Joined: 22 Aug 2014, 13:54

Re: Heads Exploding! Age of Sigmar Rules Released Online

Postby GeoffDiGeoff » 06 Jul 2015, 08:46

We've got a game this week where we're going to attempt to balance based on total number of wounds. See how that goes. I'm just glad I finally get to field Orion :) Now to actually paint him!
GeoffDiGeoff
Trusted Bowman
User avatar Trusted Bowman
 
Posts: 121
Joined: 22 Jul 2014, 13:49
Location: Surrey

Re: Heads Exploding! Age of Sigmar Rules Released Online

Postby Cernunnos » 06 Jul 2015, 09:54

I find myself strangely glad about the new system in some respects. I like that the fun eliment has been brought back, yes some rules are strange but I quite like them! Without unit limits now And with cheap warhawk riders from battlezone miniatures I can field a warhawk army! Hunting packs are back, fenrisian wolves are a good source of doggies :nod: the change does, and will take time to get used to.
Proud owner of Ltd Wood Elves book 446

Image

Image

Image
Cernunnos
Trusted Bowman
User avatar Trusted Bowman
 
Posts: 231
Joined: 24 Oct 2012, 12:56
Location: Norway

Re: Heads Exploding! Age of Sigmar Rules Released Online

Postby Aezeal » 06 Jul 2015, 10:11

Cernunnos wrote:I find myself strangely glad about the new system in some respects. I like that the fun eliment has been brought back, yes some rules are strange but I quite like them! Without unit limits now And with cheap warhawk riders from battlezone miniatures I can field a warhawk army! Hunting packs are back, fenrisian wolves are a good source of doggies :nod: the change does, and will take time to get used to.


I have 6 old wild cats from the ancient beastmaster.. they will be my hounds.

GeoffDiGeoff wrote:We've got a game this week where we're going to attempt to balance based on total number of wounds. See how that goes. I'm just glad I finally get to field Orion :) Now to actually paint him!


Against my next opponent I will probably say:

150 wounds max (I don't want to start to high, I've noticed keeping track of all the damn warscrolls and all abilities makes turns longer than they where in 8th because I don't know them yet).
max 30 wounds in monsters
max 50 wounds in non-monster hero's
AT LEAST 30 x 1 wound models.

If you say you MUST get the number of wounds then the max in monsters etc is probably not needed.. I think 12 wounds in single wound models are probably weaker than a large 12 wound models but it could work. I've jsut tought this up so you can't bring 150 wounds in monsters and claim to be outnumbered.
I added the 30x 1 wound line because I think there should be some regular troops on the table and when you min max it they are probably not completely worth it except in a few cases.

I'm really looking forward to playing with Orion and those hunting cats I mentioned. The game I mentioned before I had wanted to play with all my 5 treemen and Orion but After placing Durthu and a Dragon I decided adding the rest would have been overkill (as mentioned what I did play with was already overkill).

Next game I will probably try sisters on dragon, treeman, orion and a lot of shadowdancers and maybe a lord on eagle. If my opponent knows these rules I want and agree that means he'll be bringing similar stuff and it could be a fun game.

Since shooting appears to be allowed even in melee I think all our lords could be pretty strong, we have quite some shooting attacks on most (Orion, Durthu, sisters on dragon and lords with BoL). I will take 30 waywatchers (though wardancers seem nice too and I've not use them much in 8th) and then fill the rest with wildriders (they might be subpar now though.. the GR with 2 shots everyturn and nearly the same melee attacks might even be stronger, go figure), Wild riders and Orion combine well with their special rules. Durthu summoning forests and a brancwraith summoning dryads in that wood might be fun too.
Last edited by Aezeal on 06 Jul 2015, 10:28, edited 1 time in total.
Aezeal
Wild Hunter
Wild Hunter
 
Posts: 1502
Joined: 22 Aug 2014, 13:54

PreviousNext

Return to The Hall of Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

cron