frogboy wrote:Not that I'm ignoring that massive post you just wrote Aezeal but I don't get why everyone and their Nan is trying to be the first cat to come up with a "balancing act" for the game.
The game don't need balance, your opponent reaches in his army case and drops a chariot, now do you put a block of eternal guard down hoping to tie it up and hopefully still be useful to in other situations or do you drop a dragon, yes it will kill that chariot and other stuff but then he's going to drop a daemon prince but you might not have anything else to counter. What i'm saying is you got to have one eye on the drops and one on the missions. If you box clever you could well draw out all his trump cards and then hit him with a combo that will leave his grand kids shaking.
It's not warhammer, with points and lists! So please don't try to turn it into a dead game!!!
Well another lng post for you frogboy
Clearly it's not warhammer.. but if I'd used all models I had today my opponent would have had a bad day and not a fun game, actually that happend even now. Balanced somewhat equal games (at least form the start) make for a fun game I think. Not to mention games that are pay-2-win are generally not fun for those with less cash too. it's not about turning it into a dead game, I think AoS has much potential and I REALLY like the warscrolls I've seen.. but the rules... they are severly lacking.
The strategy you assume there is present in army selection and deploying doesn't exist as you think it does. Sure deployment can be important BUT: There is really no reason to keep an eye on the drops.. you just ALWAYS need to place the strongest single models you have to keep your count low. If you have much more monsters and hero's available you will just win the game because you will probably be outnumbered while still having a way stronger army. Please read my "battle report" again:
My opponent today brought a regular old 1K points WE army and ended up deploying 5 dryads, 6 GR, 10 GG, 5 WR and 1 spellweaver (what used to a somewhat balanced army', I was WE too and had read the rules, and accoringly I brought 6 treemen, a dragon, orion, 3 mages, 4 shadowdancers, 2 branchwriaths and some lords and of course just tons and tons of rank and file models.
I could have placed all my heroes and monsters. (I didn't in the end.. I played with Lord on dragon, Durthu, spellweaver, BSB, 9 waywatchers and 5 WR).
He ended up outnumbering (I had 18 models, he had 29 models) me but my Durthu and my Dragon had more wounds than 50% of his army combined.. I chose assasination and his only mage ended up being my target, he HAD to pick that one as the target.
MY TURN 1
Durthu casts his command ability and places a sylvaneth wood next to him. My dragon and a few shots of the waywatchers killed the 5 dryads.
HIS TURN 1
He charged the the dragon with wild riders and did 1 wound the dragon did 9 wounds and killed 4 of his 5 charging WR (these have 2 wounds).
My TURN 2
My mage moved into range of his mage and cast a spell doing 1 mortal wound to his mage (the target of my assasination). Durthu succeeded in a long charge on that mage after summoning a wood behind his lines (if he tried to run I could teleport there with Durthy next turn, since the charge succeeded this wasn´t needed. Durthu´s attacks with his swords did 12 wounds (2 out of 3 hit, then 2/2 wouded... then each of those 2 wounds became 6 damage because that is what Durthu does when not wounded yet. That was even before my impaling talons did anything)
GAME WON BY ME
So I hope you see the problem (well it´s only a problem if you want somewhat equal games and not pay2win, that ofc depends on you).
A player with access to A LOT of of high strenght (in whatever way, wounds, damage out put, special abilities) per model can hardly loose if the other guy places a lot of old rank n files models with the current rules. If this isn´t a problem for you then that is fine but I´m pretty sure a large majority of players doesn´t like that a lot. I know EVERY player in the room today understood this when the read the rules (but most hadn´t read them before and just brought a 8th edition army which had as known large limitations on how much lords, monsters etc you can bring). Translating my army into old rules I would probably have had 90% lord choices
. My opponent understood it too. we both just kept checking the rules if there was ANYTHING he could have done to prevent this with the models he had at his disposal... untill I CRUSHED HIM without ANY resistance. At which point the organiser of the tournament decided this would not make a fun game as it was so he started to count wounds instead of models for the next game. 10 out of 10 players in the room decided this manner of army building does not make for a fun game. Sure if you play with a friend you shouldn´t do this. But I think the rules themselves SHOULD somewhat balance the game. I mean even I can´t know how much heroes, monsters and lords etc my regular opponents will bring... I would prefer not to be on the recieving end of what I did to my poor victem though thus I will be bringing strong stuff to prevent it since I KNOW my opponent would be completely following the rules if he spends cash and brings 10 blood thirsters, 10 treemen and 10 cannons or something similar.
Maybe you need to play a game against someone with a competative attitude to understand it better, or just try dividing your old army up in 2 giving 1 side a mage and a lord and the rest all other mosnters and lords and then both sides half the rest of the units and just try what I just said, deploying first the strong stuff with the side which has that. At a certain point the weak side will have 10 monsters and lords and the other side about 50/60 models, the place some regular troops for fun on the strong side but you will still be out numbered and then pick the most easy sudden death rules (assasination or endure that will probaby be). Just give it a try... it will NOT take long I promiss you and it will be VERY enlightning. If you let your wife or child play the strong side it will be clear quickly that for the weaker side it´s a bit of a waste of time... also for the strong side btw... I had NO fun in the game I won today. I just had to see if this was how it worked.. and it did.
Tuladin wrote:It's probably just them thinking their funny. When the dust settles they can update the pdfs to get rid of the nonsense. Rules changes and adjustments are going to be crazy fast now. I'm optimistic, but I'm still in shock they destroyed so much history.
Yeah if they (unlike in the past) quickly update the problematic rules this could be a great game.
Tuladin wrote:Anyone else blown away by the prices? $250 for the starter set. $280 for a plastic box with foam in it. $140 for 20 pots of paint. Seriously?
I got into this hobby when my little brothers went out and bought the brets/lizards starter set with their saved up allowance. Good luck getting new players with those prices. I thought getting rid of rules/army books was supposed to help get people into the hobby. That didn't mean go jack up prices on everything else.
It´s 100 euro´s here for the starter set and 66 euro´s for the 20 paints. The starter set seems cheap for the models you get with it compared to regular mini´s, 47 mini´s with 2 very large monster size models and a few other models which are certainly larger than average elves or humans.
No I can´t complain about the price, if I´d play either of those armies I´d probably get 2 starter set right away.. even for 1 army it seems a good deal (a GW monster often costs 40-50 euro´s by itself and 10 regular infantry models (smaller than these) usually 30(. If you sell the other army on ebay you will probably be able to ask 30 euro at least.