Heads Exploding! Age of Sigmar Rules Released Online

[Nicholas Nitro]

http://www.games-workshop.com/resources ... ves-en.pdf

All questions have been answered. Post thoughts below.

[Polycotton]

This game is focused on individual models and heroes and not units of troops.
Despite going for uber simple rules; Games Workshop failed to get rid of the whole round of rolling saving throws. Why not eliminate this round of rolls? Ugh.
The Australia tax is definitely still in effect. $250 for the starter set.
They weren't wrong when they said their focus is now selling miniatures. The rules are really weak compared to Kings of War.

My personal conclusion is that I will continue playing 8th and Kings of War.

[Hyarion]

-Great Eagles can contain multiple eagles per unit. Interesting.
-Great Eagles do more attacks if they charged. Very nice touch.
-Dryads are faster than elves on foot. Nice touch.
-Warhawk Riders are still pretty awesome.
-For printing PDF's, Wardancers and Shadow Dancers should have been on the same page. The same goes for Waywatcher Lords and Waywatchers. Someone in the graphic design department really dropped the ball.
-The wargear options should be easier to distinguish from each other, possibly using a bullet point list. Someone in the graphic design department really dropped the ball.
-It appears as if GW has taken 40k's WYSIWYG approach to AoS. In 40k, if a model isn't modeled with a flamer weapon, then it can't have a flamer weapon, meaning that conversions and "counts as" models are somewhat limited. It appears that AoS has the same approach especially when models (like heroes) have multiple wargear options.
-The fact that Orion has the "Summon Hunting Hounds" spell should be listed on Orion's Warscroll, not Hunting Hounds' Warscroll. Someone in the graphic design department really dropped the ball.
-Branchwraiths should have the Regrowth Spell on their own Warscroll, not on Treekin's (or at least, put it on both).
-I anticipate it being very difficult to adjust to Longbow range being 20" instead of 30". It is nice however, that you can't hug your table edge and still cover 66% of the table depth.
-Wizards seem to generally know 3 spells. Arcane Bolt, Mystic Shield, and one other. Some special circumstances might give you a 4th spell. That feels like a major letdown from WHFB where you could fine tune your wizard's function by choosing a specific lore (High for defense, Shadow for offense and utility, Metal for can opening, etc) but still ran a risk depending on which spells you generated. In AoS, each wizard is a known quantity, which makes me think they lost something special.
-Wood Elves are now have the "Wanderer" tag, Forest Spirits now have the "Sylvaneth" tag. Each has benefits to it's own tag (Glade Lords/Orion to Wanderers, Branchwraiths to Sylvaneth units). Very nice touch.
-Wizards (at least the Wanderer and Sylvaneth wizards) can only unbind (dispel) one spell per turn. That would seem to make reliance on wizards a must (if for no other purpose than magic defense). An upgrade to Lv 4 (for lack of a better term) allowing 2 casts and 2 dispels per hero phase would have been a really nice touch.
-Wanderers are not immune to the Sylvaneth Wyldwood's "Roused by Magic" ability. That seems to be a bit of evidence that the Elves and the Forest are no longer as close as they once were. That is a bad move.
-The Wanderer's Host formation doesn't specify if it is restricted to a Glade Lord alone and/or Spellweaver alone, or if either/both may be taken on a steed. A bit of clarification would be nice.
-Command models are free. I used to really enjoy the mental exercise of weighing the pros and cons of adding the cost of a command model to a unit. I will really miss that. Poor decision, GW.
-No point values at all. It takes away a lot of incentive and a lot of the choices involved in list building. Not the end of the world, but still a poor decision.
-I love the ability AoS introduces, that Monsters get weaker as they take wounds. I've wanted to see this for a long time now.
-I notice that there haven't been any Warscrolls released for any new models (even the ones confirmed in the starter box). Curious.

UPDATE 1: I really expected to see units have maximum sizes listed as a balancing factor. I'm rather surprised that they don't (I read the WE compendium closely, and skimmed the High Elf compendium). I'm not sure what to make of that fact or if we'll see maximums on some of the new units. As it is, it feels like using old models was shoe-horned in at the last minute.
UPDATE 2: I didn't see any rules prohibiting a unit shooting and then charging in the same turn. That will take a long time to get used to. Also, horrible design decision unless you are having a love affair with 40k.

Final verdict: To paraphrase a well known comedian, "Why should I bother to take Age of Sigmar seriously if it can't return the favor?" It might be fun for half an afternoon, but after this I am more committed than ever to bring Project Manticore to life. I certainly won't be investing any money into this boondoggle.

That's it for the moment, I might have more after I have a chance to sleep on it.

[EtherDude]

I agree with not taking it seriously. Check out some of the unit grouping special rules. Orcs get extra charge distance if the player shouts wagh when they charge. Like, actually shouts it. Yeah, no thanks.

Still, simple is usually better. Fewer rules tends to mean more strategy. Fingers crossed that's true. As is, I'm not going to sell any of my models, but I'm certainly not going to invest at all. No idea how to go about balancing for a friendly game. I have a game with my local black shirt tomorrow, so we'll see how it goes.

[GeoffDiGeoff]

Is there anything in the rules that prevents you from bringing a combined army? Wood elf and Skaven for example. I can't see anything :S

Why can a treeman move 6" but Durthu only 5"?

Is it right that you can shoot even when in combat? A unit of glade riders in combat for example, can shoot with bows and then attack with spears in the same turn? I can't see a reason why not, and theoretically you could shoot out of combat at another unit.
I will definitely be fielding Orion now
With no points/model restrictions, there's nothing, as far as I've seen yet, to stop you from fielding an army consisting entirely of characters. I won't when I play my mate, but still

I'm excited to give this a go, slightly uncertain having seen the warscrolls, but I imagine it'll be fun. I'll reserve final verdict for after a game though.

[Nicholas Nitro]

Waywatchers can shoot twice and roll an extra dice for every 6 they roll!
Scouts are glade guard again, and glade guard can get a 3+ to hit if they have at least 20+ models!
Glade riders get 2 shots, and can run and shoot!
Our swords are called 'glade-blades'!
We have 6" movement in all directions and 20" range, enemies with 14" of movement(formerly known as fast cav) and 12" of maximum charge can just barely catch our true range, and flying enemies need to roll at least a 10!
If we do the "Wanderer Formation" our entire army can ambush!
Now we can choose guerrilla tactics and be either out-numbered, or over-whelming!
Heroes and monsters are lone models, cannot join ranks!
Shooting into combat!
Magic made less powerful, but still useful!
The more I think about it the more I like it, Great job G.W.!

[Avalon101]

I heard in the rumours that you would be able to take combined armies. I thought about taking a shadow themed army. Alith anar and a shadowdancer for example. I havent seen any indication that this is the case yet.

Overall, I am really excited to play AoS. Im going to try and get a game in today. Dryads look like they will make a come back in my lists and im going to rock a massive unit of glade guard and try to delete a smaller unit in a turn! Im not sure about magic yet. Ive taken a level 4 wizard as often as I can since 6th edition so that will take some getting used to.

I get the impression that age of sigmar will bring more combat to the game (something that I tried to avoid mostly) so we'll have to be extra tactical with our movement.

[overtninja]

Yeah, these rules are actually great. I threw it up on warseer, but this is the game I thought I was going to be playing when I first got into WHF. I thought my models had more than a wound, that my heroes were actually badasses, that my models were each individually consequential instead of being literal wound markers for a unit, and that I wouldn't need hundreds of models to play. I adapted quickly when I realized this was all wrong, but I still modeled each of my models like they were individuals - my Glade Guard have never ranked properly, my Dryads could never rank if they wanted to, my Wild Riders are on wolves, my characters are all on custom-modeled bases - you get the idea. It was barely viable, and damn near unplayable during most of 8th, because WE, but I loved customizing each model, giving them personality and treating each one as equally important.

This new edition is the game I thought was going to be playing when I first got in. My heroes ARE badasses. each of my models DO matter and a bunch have multiple wounds, I can FINALLY shoot twice with my archers (hell yes), skirmishing doesn't matter any more, round bases look better, etc etc. I am really quite pleased by the whole thing, really.

Additionally, I actually like that the only way this game can even be played is by all players agreeing between themselves about what's fair for their particular game in terms of battlescrolls fielded, unit sizes, and the like. So much of WHF 8th edition was slanted towards competitive, WAAC play, netlisting, being an asshat because the rules didn't say you couldn't be an asshat, and generally building and fielding scummy armies that disregarded the fact that the essential core of miniature gaming is to be fun, and to ensure that all parties present are having fun. There were many games where I started my first turn knowing that I would never win the game because of what was across from me, and the entire proceeding was a grim, inevitable process that was fun for neither player (unless they were That Guy who loves things like kicking small, sad puppies and such). I relish the idea that this is simply not going to happen any more.

As for tournaments, it's actually a fairly simple process of the organizer and interested parties deciding what's reasonable to field in terms of battlescrolls per force, and the possible maximum of unit count per battlescroll. The hard work will be in scenario and objective creation, which will more heavily impact the game than even model count, i think. This is also great, because it extends the essential 'gentleman's agreement' that needs to happen to play and have fun to everyone participating, which is, i think, in keeping with the spirit of the game.

My gut impression is that AoS is designed for people who like miniature games to have fun playing with each other. I also think that this is the entire reason people play miniature games - to have fun, to see gorgeous, characterful armies fielded and do battle, to enjoy the company of others, and to generally enjoy the hobby. no one should be salty after a game (at least not terminally), and no one should be chased out of the hobby by awful, unpleasant opponents. I have high hopes that AoS, which is impossible to play in a non-friendly manner, will go far to eliminate this and make the hobby enjoyable for everyone.

[Tidings]

Overtninja, I agree with almost everything you said. All in all, this looks super interesting. I didn't play 8th, I literally just decided to start playing again, so I can't compare it to what everyone's been playing recently. But I played for years a while back and this seems more straightforward, quicker and more enjoyable overall. The games where you just sit there for 30 or 45 minutes waiting for your opponent to finish his turn were boring and tiring. This isn't perfect, but it seems a lot more fluid and enjoyable for the average player.

That said, I LOVED seeing ranks of troops on the table and will miss that. Part of what drew me to fantasy more than 40k. I also will miss riding glade riders a couple inches away from an enemy unit while being safe because of LoS.

I'm super confused about the no points aspect though. I loved customizing different characters and making weird lists. This feels like people will just place the same, best units every time until the other player says "okay stop I can only play for 3 hours"

GeoffDiGeoff asked about shooting while in combat. This is what the rules said on that: "Missile weapons can be used in the shooting phase, and melee weapons can be used in the combat phase."
So it appears you can. Which is kinda weird. o_0

Curious to see how it plays out. I imagine there will be hotfixes of sorts. Can't wait to play it!

-Tidings

[Ramesesis]

I may try this out with my son but my gaming buddy and I will stick to 8th and get KoW.

The BIG problem with every model matters is scale. What you had was a game that represented battles between several hundreds or even thousands. Real field battles like the Fields of the Pelennor.
AoS is about one chieftain leading his small warband into another smal skirmish of which there are thousands being fought. It is not epic anymore.

[Furyou Miko]

I quite like the fact that Ariel is mentioned, even if its only in the banner bearer's description - it implies she's still around, though, if she's actively making banners!

... scratch that, I just found the bottom of the document. She counts as a Spellweaver. The fact she's there at all is awesome, but that's a little underwhelming, lol!

On the other hand, Waywatchers are down to hitting on 3s. But my waywatcher army is now a real thing rather than a fudge with some sneaky gladeguard pretending.

Glade Knives though. Lame name.

Wow. Dryads are... dryady. Very fey with their Siren Songs. I'm impressed there.

Now, the question is, is there any way to get Sylvaneth Wildwoods without taking the Dryad formation?

Actually, no. My main complaint is that my Waywatchers can only Ambush if they're in a massive army full of other stuff I don't want.

[Akorndr2]

Did we also get a chariot back???

[Joolz]

I don't get how to build an army. How do you balance a battle with 2 armies since there is no point costs anymore?

[Aezeal]

Is there anything in the rules that prevents you from bringing a combined army? Wood elf and Skaven for example. I can't see anything :S

Why can a treeman move 6" but Durthu only 5"?

Is it right that you can shoot even when in combat? A unit of glade riders in combat for example, can shoot with bows and then attack with spears in the same turn? I can't see a reason why not, and theoretically you could shoot out of combat at another unit.
I will definitely be fielding Orion now
With no points/model restrictions, there's nothing, as far as I've seen yet, to stop you from fielding an army consisting entirely of characters. I won't when I play my mate, but still

I'm excited to give this a go, slightly uncertain having seen the warscrolls, but I imagine it'll be fun. I'll reserve final verdict for after a game though.

You are right, I adressed this in the other topic and noone seemed to understand but it's a real balance problem.

I just played my first game in the store. They had a small tournament but since I had to leave at 13:00 I could only play 1 game. I'd read the rules so I brought my 5 treeman, Orion, dragon, several shadow dancers mages etc. and tons of regular troops.

I was paired with someone borrowing WE from someone else.
He had access too like 10 dryads, 40 GG, 5 WR, 8 GR, 3 mages and 2 heroes, Lords.
He started placing 5 dryads, 10 GG, 8 GR, 5 WR and a mage and then for the sake of time he stopped. At that moment I had places dragon, Durthu, spellweaver, BSB, 9 waywatchers and 5 WR.

So: 18 vs 29 models... obviuosly I was the weaker and outnumbered side . I picked the assasination mission, he could only pick his mage as target. My dragon killed the 5 dryads turn 1, his turn 1 the dragon killed 4 of his 5 charging WR and in my turn 2 Durthu's sword got positive hit and wound rolls on his mage: damage on each of those: 6 since Durthu had full HP still: so 12 wounds on his mage: DEAD (only has 5).

The '"tournament leader" was surprised at the quick victory and quickly decided that instead of models he's be counting wounds for the outnumbered rule and they'd probably also make a limit on heroes and or monsters (which gives it's own problems since other armies have models which are even scarier (I've seen Nagash stats and it's NASTY, don't even want to look at greater dragons (if HE still have those) or Bloodthirsters/demonprinces etc.). AFter 1 game!!!! it was already clear that these base rules are not very balanced even without trying to hard.
Luckily with free online rules this sort of stuff can be dealt with quickly IF GW WANTS (their track record for errata isn't all that).

So current army selection rules can be severly abused (I could have put 5 shadowdancers instead of the 9 WW and it would be even more off). However I do think there is a lot of strategic potential in the game.. there are a lot of special rules on the models that allow for lots of tactical choices even though they are different than in 8th edition fantasy.

[EtherDude]

Did we also get a chariot back???

No. Bottom of the document, counts as a Tiranoc Chariot, which you can use legally as part of your "wood elf" army.

[Joolz]

Aezeal wrote:
So current army selection rules can be severly abused (I could have put 5 shadowdancers instead of the 9 WW and it would be even more off). However I do think there is a lot of strategic potential in the game.. there are a lot of special rules on the models that allow for lots of tactical choices even though they are different than in 8th edition fantasy.

Okay... I'm thoroughly confused right now. Is it based on model count? So hypothetically I can slam down Orion and my buddy just a Skaven Slave?

I admit it's a very flexible system but is it fair???

[Joolz]

OK now I know how it works!!

http://www.docdroid.net/15k02/point-system-aos.pdf.html

[Avalon101]

I am really hyped for the synergy between units after I've read the army rules again. Hoping they balance the game a bit so that it doesn't just get sidelined by 10 tree man vs. 10 bloodthirsters.

[frogboy]

BAAAAAAAGH WIBBLE WIBBLE WIBBLE

[Blackcat]

Everyone seems excited at my local store but I just can't get onboard with this new edition. Everyone just cares they can play their old armies but for me I care about the gameplay. There is no more tactical choice it's just run at the enemy. I feel like the game would be just the same as if you flipped a coin to decide the winner. There seems no point in playing fantasy at all anymore because it is just like 40k. If I wanted to play 40k I would (and I do). The loss of stats is rubbish and I feel like GW just took a dump on 30 years of history.

I feel like everyone is keen for it but honestly apart from painting the odd model I'm not keen on AoS at all.
8th ed all the way!

[frogboy]

Everyone seems excited at my local store but I just can't get onboard with this new edition. Everyone just cares they can play their old armies but for me I care about the gameplay. There is no more tactical choice it's just run at the enemy. I feel like the game would be just the same as if you flipped a coin to decide the winner. There seems no point in playing fantasy at all anymore because it is just like 40k. If I wanted to play 40k I would (and I do). The loss of stats is rubbish and I feel like GW just took a dump on 30 years of history.

I feel like everyone is keen for it but honestly apart from painting the odd model I'm not keen on AoS at all.
8th ed all the way!

Don't get too disheartened buddy, all the cool stuff GW have released over the years still exists, the new game is different it's a new game after all. I'm not sure it's going to work out if we start comparing it to Warhammer Fantasy.

I'd like to give it a go before liking or unlikeing.

Also looks very different to 40k, there's no standard or points cost for choosing armys for one, I see your 5 Treemen and I'll raise you 6 Blood Thirsters

OK now I know how it works!!

http://www.docdroid.net/15k02/point-system-aos.pdf.html

Don't think this game is ment to have a points cost for stuff, the built in rules are in place to stop people from taking advantage. There will be a lot of disappointed rules lawyers and trolls in this game I think

[Cernunnos]

as I got rid of my chariots years ago I 'm wondering if I should convert my Current Tiranoc ones!!

[Archeos]

Hello everybody!

OK, today I tried a quick AoS game at my local GW store... just for having an idea of the game-play

It was a 2vs2 game, my brother and I (WE and dwarfs) against ogres and WoC.

Since the lack of ANY point system we decided to rely on the total number of "wounds" of entire armies... we set up around 40
Our army counted 30 models (10 GG, 5 Dryads, 10 Longbeard, 5 Hammerers ) and 2 heroes (Spellsinger and dwarf lord).
Opponents had: Butcher, chaos lord (khorne), 3 Ironguts, 3 Skullcrushers of Khorne).

Our army exceeded by more than a third of the models then opponents had the SUDDEN DEATH VICTORIES rule (if my GG unit dies, is game over), but with the Chaos Lord special rule "Unending Legion" they evoked in the first round 10 additional WoC ... that made everything more difficult (so bye bye numeric superiority)

The game was more or less fun (and very confused at some point).

One thing that I found it hard to deal with, and led us into errors, is inside the combat system.

Example: during our 2 (or 3) round, while Hammerer had already stuck in combat with the Ironguts that charge them before, I flank (sig!) charge the 2 Skullcrushers left (1 killed by arrows and arcane bolt) with the dryads.
Since it was our combat phase, we decided to starting attacking the ogres. After we made our attacks with the hammerers (hit, wond, and save roll) our opponents decide not to responding with the ogres, but to start with the Skullcrushers against the Dryads (killing them all), no matter if I charge them. Next turn the Skullcrushers with a lucky charge roll reach the GG and.. you can imagine.

Was a first try after all... with a lot of confusion for the rules, for the measurement, single units warscroll, ect. But what impressed me is the non-existent strategy inside the movement phase (for me movement was all, control the board, hold troops etc) and the lack of a "no matter what" point system that can balance the game in some way... I will try again but my first impression was a 6/10. Lets see the future

I apologize for my poor English, and I hope that the text was clear enough for a "firs impression"

Best!

[frogboy]

Excellent Archeos, nice first game review

[Kaese]

The lack of point system is really bad considering the fact that this is no role playing game. This basically means no competitive gaming unless somebody is willing to do complete unit balancing system. I really cant see any future in this new game system unless GW includes some type of point system.

With right kind of people this game could be fun, but if there is even one "power gamer" in the group it can turn into a real nightmare.