"Age of Sigmar" speculations

[Saniles]

Have any of you seen this??

http://raffazza.blogspot.co.uk/2015/06/ ... ge-of.html

[Hyarion]

T-minus one month and counting.... Ninth edition is coming, so this is not unexpected.

There seems to be some confusion regarding whether or not Age of Sigmar is (ranked more or less in order of decreasing likelihood):
A) A WHFB 9th edition ruleset for playing low point/skirmish level games (similar to how the Warbands system used to be).
B) A separate intro game that is "warhammer lite" but not the full WHFBv9 ruleset
C) A separate specialist/boxed game (like Dreadfleet, Space Hulk, Mordheim)
D) A jar of almonds.

Given that confusion, I find this new rumor of stopping all Armybook sales a bit puzzling. Unless GW is going to release some sort of Ravening Hordes analog.
For those who don't know, Ravening Hordes was released at the very beginning of 6th edition because the ruleset was changed so drastically all Army Books were declared invalid so a single volume was released with just the bare bones: units, wargear, and points costs for every army in a single book with only the most basic fluff and almost no artwork.

Take with a giant piece of salt, but that is what I think will happen, if this rumor proves to be true.

[Gorsameth]

Actually I dont think Harry over on warseer (one of the more reliable people) has talked about a low point skirmish box at all.
He has talked about a Chaos vs Humans (new style) box tho.

[T.D.]

Harry, the most reliable rumour guy on Warseer, has posted a summary of what he thinks lies ahead (his comments in blue ink below):

Quote Originally Posted by Lord Dan View Post
We have it from Harry and confirmed by at least one other person, however I don't think we'll know anything for certain until Saturday hits.

I didn't say anything about models .... and didn't mean to imply that.

Quote Originally Posted by MiyamatoMusashi View Post
Actually... I think Harry said only that "Warhammer as we know it" would end on Saturday... which some idiot (who may or may not have been me ) took to mean all Warhammer stuff would be taken off the shelves, whereas that's not, actually, quite what he said. If "Warhammer as we know it" only means the rules, then it'll just be the books that disappear.

So if Harry didn't mean models, then the confusion is the fault of whichever idiot assumed he did (*embarrassed cough*), so don't blame him for it. Unless he can clarify that he did actually mean models as well.

I can clarify that I did NOT mean ANY models .... except Deathknell watch.

Lots of new scenery coming and it doesn't match the existing stuff .... I am guessing that is why the expensive bits like the fortified manor, etc went a little while ago?

This is the stuff rumoured to be removed:

The Warhammer Rulebook
The Fantasy Army Books
The End Times Books
Campaign Books
Campaign box sets
Island of Blood box set
Magic cards, Templates, etc tied to the existing rules.

... 'Warhammer as we know it'.


Quote Originally Posted by andnowsteve View Post
If books are getting pulled so nothing can be bought and then immediately invalidated, but no models are getting pulled, doesn't that imply all model kits/troop types will still be playable?

Yes. I have tried to explain this ... Will you be able to play with your Lizardmen ... Yes. Will you get more Lizardmen ... Not so much. Will you be able to Play with your Bretonnians? ... Yes will you get any more Bretonnians ... Not so much Will you be able to play with your Empire troops? Yes. Will you get any more .... Not so much .... shall I go on.

I have said it depends on your definition of being "Squatted. If you mean are they going to come around your house and take your toys and no one is ever allowed to play with their toys in public again then No ... they are not being squatted. If However if by "Squatted" you mean will they like the 'Squat;s in 40K stop being supported as an army and get no more minis .... then YES they are getting squatted.

But I have also said that the Lizardmen are not a special case. They are no more, no less squatted than everyone else. Almost everyone is getting squatted .... as they exist now. The Humans going forward don't have much to do with either the existing Bretonnians or Empire. (I think some of the first rumours I posted about this a couple of years ago were pretty clear and singled these guys out as generic, historical armies that would be going ...I also suggested that generic fantasy Dwarves and Elves would also be going. Even the armies that survive will be very different from the ones we know now. (But none of that means they will not have thought about how you can play with some of your existing armies in the future .... it just means it won't have much to do with the new stuff).

My guess is that the box set that is coming is just an introductory game (Heroquest/Space crusade) It can't be anything else form the size of the rulebook. (I have posted to say it is not very big. ) But I was also told by a couple of folks that this set was very much like the 40K set. So i am expecting a box set that is essentially a starter army for humans and Chaos which will swiftly be followed by a boat load of new stuff to match.

So if there is an option to play big battles .... which there must surely be ... that will be something else. That will be where you get to play with your existing toys. But my sense of it is that the new stuff is so different from most of the older stuff that it will not sit very well side by side....so if you want to play with the cool kids then you will need to buy the new stuff.

I on the other hand was never cool ... even when I was a kid so I am all set.

Quote Originally Posted by Mike3791 View Post
This is also how I read it, the key phases being the four factions, as in the only four factions. I think just from 30 years of both 40k and Fantasy that the two anchor forces of both games are Emperor vs Chaos, with everything else built around that rivalry. Now with the Age of Sigmar name & starter box it seems they are reinforing that narrative. With four factions total, that would leave only two "neutral" factions, probably with formations included. Seems like some "neutral" races like elves or undead could be interchangable depending on the theme of a player's army.

This is the closest anyone has got to my understanding. Humans v's Chaos with a couple of other protagonists thrown in for a bit of variety.

40K was very much Humans v's Chaos with Orks, Nids and Eldar thrown in. You have to ask yourself what is the fantasy equivalent of this .... or at least that is what I have been doing. Given this is the model they have ... this is what I think we will be moving towards. I think they will have looked at what the best selling armies are in 40K and that is what will have influenced the decisions.

Quote Originally Posted by turtle123 View Post
Hmmmm... This sounds like a clue...Humans (and Dwarves) v's Chaos (inc. Skaven and Beastmen) with Orks (Orcs), Nids (a reincarnation of Lizarmen/Old Ones that are indifferent) and Eldar (Elves) as the six factions

Dear lord
Forget the whole faction thing and trying to save as many armies as you can by combining armies and forget six.
You have to scrap everything and start with the minimum.

It was not a clue ... if I knew I would just tell you. I know what it is NOT. it is not all the existing armies crammed into six factions. It is back to the start. Re boot.

[Cernunnos]

I think I will have to get some Rangers shortly!

despite everything, I am proud that I bought the Ltd Wood Elves book! one last hoorah before riding into the sunset.

[Maeglin]

I think I'm in mourning! I've no idea what to do, panic buy? Sell the bits I'll never use while I can?

[frogboy]

At this stage it's very hard for me to stay positive

[Aezeal]

At this stage it's very hard for me to stay positive

But you don't play the game anymore right?

[Hyarion]

I can't speak for frogboy, but the situations could be similar, I haven't been able to get a game of Warhammer for the last 5 years because all the fantasy players just vanished into the woodwork with 8th edition (my own dissatisfaction with 8th edition and our new army book not withstanding). Despite not really playing, there was always the hope that 9th edition would revitalize the local player base. Now that doesn't seem like it's going to happen, if anything it gives me a sinking feeling that Age of Sigmar (whatever it is, see my previous post in this thread) will drive the fantasy players further underground. My 8k Wood Elf army will be reduced to collectibles instead of game pieces.

[T.D.]

I think I'm in mourning! I've no idea what to do, panic buy? Sell the bits I'll never use while I can?

The models are still going to be on the shelves. It's only the books that are getting removed from the shops (and still orderable online apparently).

If the rumours are true, existing models will be slowly phased out over several years, with new "GWeldar" or something to take over in their place.

[Aezeal]

I can't speak for frogboy, but the situations could be similar, I haven't been able to get a game of Warhammer for the last 5 years because all the fantasy players just vanished into the woodwork with 8th edition (my own dissatisfaction with 8th edition and our new army book not withstanding). Despite not really playing, there was always the hope that 9th edition would revitalize the local player base. Now that doesn't seem like it's going to happen, if anything it gives me a sinking feeling that Age of Sigmar (whatever it is, see my previous post in this thread) will drive the fantasy players further underground. My 8k Wood Elf army will be reduced to collectibles instead of game pieces.

I can't really see the problem with 8th myself...I think the rules have steadily been improving.. but change will always have adversaries I guess. It's a shame when you can't play because there are no opponents if you still want to play yourself. I think there is really to much competition in economic not the best times (for what is essentially a very luxury product) to hope for an increase in player base. My hopes for 9th are a decrease in the decline of the player base.

I can live with WE leaving as long as I can play with my current models. I'm ok with investing a bit of extra cash in 9th (the rules and book alone will probably be more than I'd regulary spend) for a few good looking new models but I'm NOT going to buy a whole new army. Now I doubt that will happen so I guess I will keep playing.. I just hope others around me feel the same. I don't play with RL friends, I play with about 5 guys that visit the facebook site of my shop and we arrange a match... if 2 or even 1 drops the playerbase WILL suffer a major loss. Not to mention I'm probably the only one solely playing fantasy.. the rest also plays with those ugly tanks from boltaction or whatever.

[Gorsameth]

I can't speak for frogboy, but the situations could be similar, I haven't been able to get a game of Warhammer for the last 5 years because all the fantasy players just vanished into the woodwork with 8th edition (my own dissatisfaction with 8th edition and our new army book not withstanding). Despite not really playing, there was always the hope that 9th edition would revitalize the local player base. Now that doesn't seem like it's going to happen, if anything it gives me a sinking feeling that Age of Sigmar (whatever it is, see my previous post in this thread) will drive the fantasy players further underground. My 8k Wood Elf army will be reduced to collectibles instead of game pieces.

I can't really see the problem with 8th myself...I think the rules have steadily been improving.. but change will always have adversaries I guess. It's a shame when you can't play because there are no opponents if you still want to play yourself. I think there is really to much competition in economic not the best times (for what is essentially a very luxury product) to hope for an increase in player base. My hopes for 9th are a decrease in the decline of the player base.

I can live with WE leaving as long as I can play with my current models. I'm ok with investing a bit of extra cash in 9th (the rules and book alone will probably be more than I'd regulary spend) for a few good looking new models but I'm NOT going to buy a whole new army. Now I doubt that will happen so I guess I will keep playing.. I just hope others around me feel the same. I don't play with RL friends, I play with about 5 guys that visit the facebook site of my shop and we arrange a match... if 2 or even 1 drops the playerbase WILL suffer a major loss. Not to mention I'm probably the only one solely playing fantasy.. the rest also plays with those ugly tanks from boltaction or whatever.

Supposedly Fantasy is now a tiny fraction of GW's income. So much in fact that they considered scrapping the entire thing because it wasn't worth it. Instead they went for a full on re imagining. As Harry said, nothing that needs to be kept, nothing sacred just a completely new empty piece of paper.
Like you I don't think this has a snowballs chance in hell of growing GW's market. People haven't left GW an mass because of the background but because of rules and prices. And GW has shown plenty that it isn't great at writing good rules.

So what is 9th likely to do? It will lose players because of the destruction of the background and the radical changes to armies/rules that are coming. It is also unlikely to bring in large numbers of new players.
I don't see this slowing the decline, I see it accelerating headlong off the cliff and that makes me very sad and angry because I enjoy playing 8th a lot. Sure my local club may stick on 8th if 9th is bad but I dont know if the tournament scene will follow and that would be a major loss for me.

[Aezeal]

Ow I don't think the rules of fantasy are bad. I think 8th had solid rules and fun games.
Prices... I hear a lot about high prices for high quality stuff.. and I agree GW has the best models.. but I must also admit it's hard for me to pay the prices. I have cash but I also have an inbuild sense of realism about paying those amounts of cash for some plastic puppets. For me GW pricing is definately the biggest problem. Which is also why I DO NOT want to buy a whole new army for 9th. I want to buy a rulebook, and armybook and then a few models when I feel like it.. but in the meanwhile I need to be able to play with my army.

[Merlin Elf friend]

I totally agree with Aezeal on this. I want to be able to use my existing WE army with the 9th edition and only buy the new rules etc., plus a few new models as required; GW prices has always been my issue here (recently retired)!
I quite like the 8th edition rules; a few FAQ's needed here and there as found elsewhere on this forum; but generally (IMHO) one of the better editions.

Not a fan of what they did with the fluff during End of Times etc., but can see the economic sense/need for an update and a way to save GW's IP by making less generic "Elves, Goblins, Dwarves" etc.

[BowSpear]

Age of Sigmar advertisement from GW Seville:

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... .html&_rdr

What the guy says is "I don't need to say anything"

Bye bye Warhammer Fantasy Battles...

What do you thing?

[frogboy]

I can't speak for frogboy, but the situations could be similar, I haven't been able to get a game of Warhammer for the last 5 years because all the fantasy players just vanished into the woodwork with 8th edition (my own dissatisfaction with 8th edition and our new army book not withstanding). Despite not really playing, there was always the hope that 9th edition would revitalize the local player base. Now that doesn't seem like it's going to happen, if anything it gives me a sinking feeling that Age of Sigmar (whatever it is, see my previous post in this thread) will drive the fantasy players further underground. My 8k Wood Elf army will be reduced to collectibles instead of game pieces.

In fact this is almost the exact same situation i'm in, although there are plenty of clubs within driving distance to me to start again but unfortunately RL keeps getting in the way so now I'm playing tournament Blood Bowl once a month instead, surprisingly i'm spending less money than if I was going to a regular weekly gaming night.

I've been a fan of Warhammer Fantasy since the 80s so would be upset if it changed as some of the rumours are suggesting, I still read the books and I still take and interest in the hobby. The background story's they've built up over the years through the Rules books and the Novels is really deep so if they scrap it all it will be a little pointless. It's the same reason I never got into Hordes and Warmachine or any of the other games I tried after my friends decided to shelve Warhammer.

Prices are certainly high. What's worse is they have only just released End Times for example and now it's going. They still release Army book with no intention of them going forward. Time and time again GW have shown complete disregard to the customer base. I mean if I was a kid and I wanted to save up for a big plastic kit and it was nowhere near a birthday or Christmas etc then by the time I'd saved for it and bought it it would get discontinued? I'm sorry but I've always been a massive fan of GW but lately I just find it hard to stay positive. Knowing all that why would I buy into a new game?
If the game is only designed to pull in new customers then obviously it's not designed for someone like me.

Anyway that is my doubts, only time will tell. Maybe this change will be a good thing, maybe I'm just getting old lol

[Aezeal]

It would be idiotic if they didn't include the expensive kits like glotkin in the new edition.. they'd certainly be screwing over some people then. I'm not as negative about GW compared to most (even here).. but if they do this it would be clear sign the others where right.

[frogboy]

I'm not saying it's idiotic to include them, just pure evil to make you pay for something which will be useless in a few months, that's because I'm a paying customer and company profits don't increase my bank balance. So what happened with the End Times?

Anyway for me it's more like going to the same restaurant for years and always being happy with the food then one day the manager or chef changes you keep going for a while and the standard of food goes down and then they start putting the prices up then Jay and Silent Bob start hanging outside the front door trying to hustle you for money on the way in and out. Who's going to want to keep going there ?

[Aezeal]

Well I'm a positive guy.. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.. and if they dissappoint me I will proxy the whole new elven army with my old units and only buy old units from ebay if I need more. Heck if they do that and they make something I can't really proxy I might even go look into china recasts. But.. for now.. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt.

[razorfate]

Our meta of gaming clubs in Turkey differs a little bit comparing to yours. In our meta 40k is on the downfall because of the imbalance of the codexes (I am creating 50k tournaments with the Australian community comp tules to kindle the flame for 40k and it had so far proven to be succesful); but the fantasy is on the grow. Many old players including myself returned to the hobby. I am making a vampire counts army on top of wood elves. An ETC team is founded this year and our gaming club travelled to Greece and played a tournament with the Greek ETC team. I and my clubmates find the 8th edition rules and armies balanced and well written. And altough we plan to follow the ETC enviroment if the 9th sucks we will stick with the 8th.

[NonnoSte]

I guess that will be the thing most gaming club will do.
If you don't like what comes with 9th, then stick with 8th and eventual house-rules to taste.

[Aezeal]

I don't think the rules of 9th will be the real problem. I myself don't really fancy combined stats for monsters and riders and like split stats better.. but it hardly matters, if they tone down ranked troops a little bit as I expect then it'll be an improvement.

I just hope I can build and "elven" army with similar playstyle as our woodelves and still be competitave. And... as I said.. as long as I will be able to use my old models.

[Gorsameth]

I don't think the rules of 9th will be the real problem. I myself don't really fancy combined stats for monsters and riders and like split stats better.. but it hardly matters, if they tone down ranked troops a little bit as I expect then it'll be an improvement.

I just hope I can build and "elven" army with similar playstyle as our woodelves and still be competitave. And... as I said.. as long as I will be able to use my old models.

The problem is that reliable rumor providers have said that the game as we know it is gone. Not some tweeks and changes like between previous editions but completely changed from the ground up. And considering how bad GW is with writing rules (just look at what is happening to 40k) that is a frightening thought.

I hope it all turns out well and we are overreacting but GW has a terrible trackrecord.

[Baardah]

Ive decided to just delete anything GW does and have done from the first page of sigmas blood. I will build and collect my armies as if GW stopped existing from said point. I've got my army books, my BRB. And models I have enough to paint until I'm old and grey. So... GW deletes what I like....right back at them....

Shure I'll buy a model or two from them if they make something that fits with what I've got, though that seems unlikely...but any new fantasy they create that is created mainly to protect their IP and not to make a good story is totally not interesting to me.

Problem solved.

[Niedfaru]

Personally, I'm interested to see what they do. I can simultaneously mourn the loss of the current Fantasy and be excited for whatever replaces it. If it turns out to be a mound of mouldy Mournfang manure, then I'll not partake, but until I see it, I'll not judge. I quite like 40k, and have a sizeable force there too - one for which I have a much better idea of build/paint direction than I do my WElfs. If the new Fantasy is to be based on that aesthetic, provided the fluff is actually distinct enough, I'll be alright with that. True, I'm not thrilled at having to spend more money, but if you can build an army as small as you can in 40k, then I'll be alright with starting there and building up slowly.