What We Would Change Revisited

[Stygian]

No I agree, again I love the new book. Far from the initial outcries against ward I think he/they did a fantastic job even down to the arrow of kurnous. I am pretty uninformed on the ET nonsense and have no desire to be but I am skeptical how GW will pull off the revamp into steam punk bubble world or what-have-you.. depending on which rumors you buy into, or none. Either way to me the beauty of WHF was always the dedication to a specific army and even archetype within it. It is/was a defining feature of the game and what attracts me to the game still. WEs have plenty of identity atm, I hope this isn't lost in coming edition.

[frogboy]

I look at the new book vs the old book like the forces of ying and yang, in the old book you had all the ying but non of the yang and in the new book you have all of the yang and non of the ying

WHY !

[Aezeal]

No I agree, again I love the new book. Far from the initial outcries against ward I think he/they did a fantastic job even down to the arrow of kurnous. I am pretty uninformed on the ET nonsense and have no desire to be but I am skeptical how GW will pull off the revamp into steam punk bubble world or what-have-you.. depending on which rumors you buy into, or none. Either way to me the beauty of WHF was always the dedication to a specific army and even archetype within it. It is/was a defining feature of the game and what attracts me to the game still. WEs have plenty of identity atm, I hope this isn't lost in coming edition.

Why are the ET and all it's lore nonsense btw?
I don't believe the bubble story btw I think there will just be a new world.
I think the new armies will be good enough to play with good lore and they will certainly have enough identity I'd guess.

[Stygian]

No I agree, again I love the new book. Far from the initial outcries against ward I think he/they did a fantastic job even down to the arrow of kurnous. I am pretty uninformed on the ET nonsense and have no desire to be but I am skeptical how GW will pull off the revamp into steam punk bubble world or what-have-you.. depending on which rumors you buy into, or none. Either way to me the beauty of WHF was always the dedication to a specific army and even archetype within it. It is/was a defining feature of the game and what attracts me to the game still. WEs have plenty of identity atm, I hope this isn't lost in coming edition.

Why are the ET and all it's lore nonsense btw?
I don't believe the bubble story btw I think there will just be a new world.
I think the new armies will be good enough to play with good lore and they will certainly have enough identity I'd guess.

Well obviously opinions vary but from my perspective the changes brought with ET and the errata to characters caps skews the power balance of armies pretty heavily and invalidates many otherwise viable choices in the process.

Not saying armies won't be good enough to play with. It's the identity of individual armies i.e. the viability of 'pure' armies. ET was a precursor of combined factions. It happened in the other system it's likely happening in this one. Sure being able to field Phoenix guard with shadowdancers would be novel I'm just not sure I like the concept. Dark elves with double waywatchers and botwd lions etc. Cherry picking. Anyway way off topic sorry folks.

[Aezeal]

Ow you mean it like that.. I think end times should be viewed as a completely fluffy campaign and the army lists and the special characters should not be viewed as even somewhat balanced armies. The fluff is pretty decent though and it makes a good transition to the (apperantly) needed changes GW wants for 9th. I can't be bothered to actually play end times games myself for the reason I basicly mentioned above (and as an elf player I could play one of the most OP armies in there).. and I think the races which didn't get strong characters shouldn't even bother with it.

[Etheneus]

On one hand, you are right, we had Wardancer kindred Nobles now we have Shadowdancers, we used to have Waywatcher Kindred Nobles now we have Waystalkers, what's the big deal, right?

Waystalkers (apart from the goofy magic item allowance) are virtually analogous, Shadowdancers are similar (the fact that they are now mages and may therefore not fit within a comp system or an armies fluff not withstanding) also but less so.

What made kindreds really special was that they could apply to Lords as well as to Nobles. So it's not just a Shadowdancer, it's a Shadowmaster with the full allowance of magical gear to really become a cuisinart of destruction. There were also more kindreds in the old book that didn't get the translation into the new book that added a lot of flavor to Wood Elf lists that really made them stand out from other elf lists.

I see your point. I never used that but that would have been awsome. I still think that just changing the 25 to 50p would have been enough but i understundom why propre would miss the kindreds.

No treekin lord.. we have treemen already. lets not mess things up.

BTW I mean that magic phase change for all races, as a BRB rule. If you put many mages on the table you should be able to use them better. I think 2x lvl 4 is already to much now but I'd like to be able to put 4 mages on the table reasonably competatively.. especially for a "magic" race like the elves.

I was thinking more in the line of a treekin hero much like shadowdancers and waystalkers. Beside the fluff mentions Admari Ironbark so it would be fitting for à special character too.

Concerning magic I missunderstood. However I still fel a need of more dice for our elves and agree that more mages or levels should do more than just be + to cast.

[Kaese]

The fact that lvl4 mage has same change to channel dice as lvl1 is really frustrating. I would make some changes to make the magic phase little more interesting and slightly more in favor of the casting player.

- dice for 1-2lvl mages and 2 channeling dice for 3-4lvl mages
- casting channeling on +5 and dispell channeling on +6
- failing to cast only ends the phase for that mage and reduce the amount of dice -3d6

This would make the magic phase more interesting for the casting player, and I don't think it would change the balance too radically. I'm planning to test the magic phase with these modifications in a friendly game, and make a house rule out of it if successful.

[Polycotton]

I would like Dryads to be 10 pts.

I would be happy to see Wild Riders slightly nerfed if other aspects of the army list were improved slightly. Dryads, Wardancers and Wildwood Rangers don't make it into a lot of my lists and Treekin only ever get put in when they have Durthu or an Ancient leading them to give them stubborn. I find it very difficult trying to find a reason to buy a Lord or a Blade Dancer. Ld 10 can be gained by simply purchasing a 15pt Banner and a re-roll is way better on a cheaper BSB as well. The Blade Dancer has a 25pt magic item limit for some bizarre reason. He is a free meal of 125 pts for your opponent should you ever get him into combat.

The magic arrows should all be 3pts except for the Bodkins which seem reasonable, even though no one ever buys them because we have Waywatchers. The double shot arrows are probably better priced at 2pts per model. The only way to make them work is magic which is way too random. I hate magic and am starting to try out lists that only field Some Pointy Sisters and maybe a Lev 1 Shadow Mage with a Dispel Scroll.

Some of my beefs are more related to the core rules themselves. The effects of a BSB are way too powerful and it is too easy to get Ld 10 without requiring an actual Lord level character.