Thunderstomp Question
Moderator: Council of Elders
Thunderstomp Question
Does Thunderstomp receive any bonuses from buffs to the monster (For example a TMA buffed with The Savage Beast of Horros) Or does Thunderstomp always use the unmodified Str characteristic of the monster ?
Re: Thunderstomp Question
Looks like it does take bonuses from spells.
It just doesn't get bonuses from rider's strength and buffs.
It just doesn't get bonuses from rider's strength and buffs.
- Shandrakor
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Re: Thunderstomp Question
No, if you read the BRB Errata Stomp/Thunderstomp/Breath Weapons all do not receive any benefits from spells, items, or special abilities.
Well, my ideas for the next book turned out to be a bust.
But it was still fun working on something of this scale.
For those who care:
http://www.asrai.org/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=22620
But it was still fun working on something of this scale.
For those who care:
http://www.asrai.org/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=22620
- Forestcrab
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- Joined: 10 Jul 2009, 17:25
Re: Thunderstomp Question
Shandrakor wrote:No, if you read the BRB Errata Stomp/Thunderstomp/Breath Weapons all do not receive any benefits from spells, items, or special abilities.
FAQ doesn't mention anything about spells. Spells are not special rules, equipment or items.FAQ/Errata wrote: Q: Do Stomps or Thunderstomps benefit from any other special rules, equipment or magic items? Or vice versa? (p76)
A: No to both questions.
Stomp and thunderstomp uses the models strenght, the savage beast of horros buffs the models strenght.
So I would say spells can affect the strenght of stomp and thunderstomp.
On the other hand, if spell gives your model some special rule, like ASF, the stomp/thunderstomp won't be affected, as FAQ clearly states that stomp/thunderstomp can't benefit from special rules.
Re: Thunderstomp Question
Thanks for the clarification Forestcrab, I may try out the Lore of Beasts i my next game just to see how it compares to the Lore of Life.
- unicorn
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Re: Thunderstomp Question
Yes, spells are not special rules. On other hand, spell effects itself ARE special rules. Rules like "+1S +1T" ARE special rules, nothing else.Forestcrab wrote:FAQ doesn't mention anything about spells. Spells are not special rules, equipment or items.Q: Do Stomps or Thunderstomps benefit from any other special rules, equipment or magic items? Or vice versa? (p76)
A: No to both questions.
So do the Sword of Might. Or Potion of Strength. And you do not receive the bonus from that ones.Stomp and thunderstomp uses the models strenght, the savage beast of horros buffs the models strenght.
Unicorn's conversions (updated 1st Jun)
Painted
BSB, mounted noble, WD noble, Branchie, Alter, Treeman, 12 WR, 10 WD, 10 GR, 10 WW, 5 Dryads, 5 WhR, 6 Tk, Altar of Khaine
Finished
Treeman, 10 WD, dragon lord, Alter, 9 WhR, 5 GR, DE sin, OK Butcher, Beast heroes x5
Painted
BSB, mounted noble, WD noble, Branchie, Alter, Treeman, 12 WR, 10 WD, 10 GR, 10 WW, 5 Dryads, 5 WhR, 6 Tk, Altar of Khaine
Finished
Treeman, 10 WD, dragon lord, Alter, 9 WhR, 5 GR, DE sin, OK Butcher, Beast heroes x5
Re: Thunderstomp Question
Im glad we have a walking rulebook to clarify such troublesome questions. What would we do without you Unicorn
I think I will still give the Lore of Beasts a shot.
I think I will still give the Lore of Beasts a shot.
- unicorn
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Re: Thunderstomp Question
Lore of the Beast is very viable, you only need few things:Breeze wrote:I think I will still give the Lore of Beasts a shot.
* Instead of TK and TM, your army needs to be focused around dryads. Dryads are OP with beast lore. WDs are strong. TK are decent, TM do not care.
* Cause you need to run multiple dryad units, you need to have multiple woods on the table. Dryads + woods + beats lore = GG.
* If you wish to tryhard, take power scroll and and trensformation and decent unit of WDs with FCG and noble. If you do not mess up the placing (remember that chimera stands outside of the unit), you can take down 35 black orcs on the charge easily. Tested
At least, such are my experiences with Beat magic. And result? Beast is decent on WE, but Life is simply OP. Life can easily win you the game with only 2 spells succesfully casted for whole battle. No other lore can do such thing for WE.
Unicorn's conversions (updated 1st Jun)
Painted
BSB, mounted noble, WD noble, Branchie, Alter, Treeman, 12 WR, 10 WD, 10 GR, 10 WW, 5 Dryads, 5 WhR, 6 Tk, Altar of Khaine
Finished
Treeman, 10 WD, dragon lord, Alter, 9 WhR, 5 GR, DE sin, OK Butcher, Beast heroes x5
Painted
BSB, mounted noble, WD noble, Branchie, Alter, Treeman, 12 WR, 10 WD, 10 GR, 10 WW, 5 Dryads, 5 WhR, 6 Tk, Altar of Khaine
Finished
Treeman, 10 WD, dragon lord, Alter, 9 WhR, 5 GR, DE sin, OK Butcher, Beast heroes x5
- Forestcrab
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Re: Thunderstomp Question
Can you show me the page?unicorn wrote:Yes, spells are not special rules. On other hand, spell effects itself ARE special rules. Rules like "+1S +1T" ARE special rules, nothing else.Forestcrab wrote:Spells are not special rules, equipment or items.
I know. Sword of might and potion of strenght are magic items. (BRB FAQ page 7: ...special rules, equipment or magic items...)unicorn wrote:So do the Sword of Might. Or Potion of Strength. And you do not receive the bonus from that ones.Forestcrab wrote:Stomp and thunderstomp uses the models strenght, the savage beast of horros buffs the models strenght.
I just coul'd not find anything stating that spells or their effects would be taken as special rules.
- unicorn
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Re: Thunderstomp Question
BRB 66Forestcrab wrote:Can you show me the page?
Also, you can use the common sense.
So what are they? Nothing?I just coul'd not find anything stating that spells or their effects would be taken as special rules.
Unicorn's conversions (updated 1st Jun)
Painted
BSB, mounted noble, WD noble, Branchie, Alter, Treeman, 12 WR, 10 WD, 10 GR, 10 WW, 5 Dryads, 5 WhR, 6 Tk, Altar of Khaine
Finished
Treeman, 10 WD, dragon lord, Alter, 9 WhR, 5 GR, DE sin, OK Butcher, Beast heroes x5
Painted
BSB, mounted noble, WD noble, Branchie, Alter, Treeman, 12 WR, 10 WD, 10 GR, 10 WW, 5 Dryads, 5 WhR, 6 Tk, Altar of Khaine
Finished
Treeman, 10 WD, dragon lord, Alter, 9 WhR, 5 GR, DE sin, OK Butcher, Beast heroes x5
- Forestcrab
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Re: Thunderstomp Question
Thank you.unicorn wrote:BRB 66Forestcrab wrote:Can you show me the page?
When I ask for page number, I do so because I want to know where to find information that I have missed. This kind of answers don't help me too much.unicorn wrote:Also, you can use the common sense.
When studying FAQ and BRB I did somehow manage to skip this information about spell effects in page 66.unicorn wrote:So what are they? Nothing?Forestcrab wrote:I just coul'd not find anything stating that spells or their effects would be taken as special rules.
So, I thought they are basic rules.
- unicorn
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Re: Thunderstomp Question
I am glad we clarify this
Unicorn's conversions (updated 1st Jun)
Painted
BSB, mounted noble, WD noble, Branchie, Alter, Treeman, 12 WR, 10 WD, 10 GR, 10 WW, 5 Dryads, 5 WhR, 6 Tk, Altar of Khaine
Finished
Treeman, 10 WD, dragon lord, Alter, 9 WhR, 5 GR, DE sin, OK Butcher, Beast heroes x5
Painted
BSB, mounted noble, WD noble, Branchie, Alter, Treeman, 12 WR, 10 WD, 10 GR, 10 WW, 5 Dryads, 5 WhR, 6 Tk, Altar of Khaine
Finished
Treeman, 10 WD, dragon lord, Alter, 9 WhR, 5 GR, DE sin, OK Butcher, Beast heroes x5
- Forestcrab
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Re: Thunderstomp Question
Me too.
Cheers.
Cheers.
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Re: Thunderstomp Question
I believe that thunderstomp do get the bonus from spells (eg. Wyssans Wildform). Since the faq only states:
"Q: Do Stomps or Thunderstomps benefit from any other special
rules, equipment or magic items? Or vice versa? (p76)
A: No to both questions."
It doesn´t say anything about spells in the text.
It makes logic too that an ogres weapon doesn´t come into effect when he crushes his foe under his foot. While a spell that makes him stronger makes him put more weight in his kick.
"Q: Do Stomps or Thunderstomps benefit from any other special
rules, equipment or magic items? Or vice versa? (p76)
A: No to both questions."
It doesn´t say anything about spells in the text.
Spells are spells and spell effects are called spell effects.unicorn wrote: I just coul'd not find anything stating that spells or their effects would be taken as special rules.
So what are they? Nothing?
It makes logic too that an ogres weapon doesn´t come into effect when he crushes his foe under his foot. While a spell that makes him stronger makes him put more weight in his kick.
- unicorn
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Re: Thunderstomp Question
What about to try to read whole discussion above your post?Slugg087 wrote:Spells are spells and spell effects are called spell effects.unicorn wrote: I just coul'd not find anything stating that spells or their effects would be taken as special rules.
So what are they? Nothing?
And what about to check the page reference given above?
BRB 66. Spells cause special rules.
Unicorn's conversions (updated 1st Jun)
Painted
BSB, mounted noble, WD noble, Branchie, Alter, Treeman, 12 WR, 10 WD, 10 GR, 10 WW, 5 Dryads, 5 WhR, 6 Tk, Altar of Khaine
Finished
Treeman, 10 WD, dragon lord, Alter, 9 WhR, 5 GR, DE sin, OK Butcher, Beast heroes x5
Painted
BSB, mounted noble, WD noble, Branchie, Alter, Treeman, 12 WR, 10 WD, 10 GR, 10 WW, 5 Dryads, 5 WhR, 6 Tk, Altar of Khaine
Finished
Treeman, 10 WD, dragon lord, Alter, 9 WhR, 5 GR, DE sin, OK Butcher, Beast heroes x5
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- Location: Ontario, Canada
Re: Thunderstomp Question
Well, I have read the entire thread, and the rule on page 66 and I have to disagree with the interpretation. Page 66 does not say that spells equal special rules, but that a model can get special rules from a spell. There is a subtle difference there. As there is no special rule "Plus to Strength," the savage beast spell isn't giving the model a special rule. It is giving the model an augment to its strength. As such, I would argue that it will affect stomp and thunderstomp.
Now the two examples used are sword of might, and potion of strength. I would say that of course the sword won't help, as you have to be using it to hit, and aren't with a stomp, as well as the FAQ stating that magic items won't help. That is fairly clear. As for the potion of strength, I would say that it would help. You aren't hitting with the potion, it has already been used up. It doesn't exist anymore, and you have a short duration bonus to strength. To me, this is an augment to your stats, not the use of a magic item to attack with.
That would be my view.
Now the two examples used are sword of might, and potion of strength. I would say that of course the sword won't help, as you have to be using it to hit, and aren't with a stomp, as well as the FAQ stating that magic items won't help. That is fairly clear. As for the potion of strength, I would say that it would help. You aren't hitting with the potion, it has already been used up. It doesn't exist anymore, and you have a short duration bonus to strength. To me, this is an augment to your stats, not the use of a magic item to attack with.
That would be my view.
- unicorn
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Re: Thunderstomp Question
Lol. This is pretty funny, as your arguments makes perfects sense logic-wise. But there is the problem that this game often do not act logic, but by the rules. Potion of trength is magic item and there is no doubt that the +3S will not affect your thunderstomp. As well as any talisman/armor who increases your strength (and as well as spells, but let this aside - we both already stated our points in this case). It is effect of magic items what is something clearly solved in FAQ.sirkently wrote:As for the potion of strength, I would say that it would help. You aren't hitting with the potion, it has already been used up. It doesn't exist anymore, and you have a short duration bonus to strength. To me, this is an augment to your stats, not the use of a magic item to attack with.
But yeah, this game is often counter-logic and sometimes, it is pretty annoying
Unicorn's conversions (updated 1st Jun)
Painted
BSB, mounted noble, WD noble, Branchie, Alter, Treeman, 12 WR, 10 WD, 10 GR, 10 WW, 5 Dryads, 5 WhR, 6 Tk, Altar of Khaine
Finished
Treeman, 10 WD, dragon lord, Alter, 9 WhR, 5 GR, DE sin, OK Butcher, Beast heroes x5
Painted
BSB, mounted noble, WD noble, Branchie, Alter, Treeman, 12 WR, 10 WD, 10 GR, 10 WW, 5 Dryads, 5 WhR, 6 Tk, Altar of Khaine
Finished
Treeman, 10 WD, dragon lord, Alter, 9 WhR, 5 GR, DE sin, OK Butcher, Beast heroes x5
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- Newcomer
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Re: Thunderstomp Question
I always play by the rules. The fact that I interpret them differently than you, while you may find that funny, doesn't mean that I am trying to cheat. I understand your argument, but I disagree with it. I think you are extrapolating from what is actually written, to conform to your view of the rules. I just don't think that extrapolation is correct.unicorn wrote:Lol. This is pretty funny, as your arguments makes perfects sense logic-wise. But there is the problem that this game often do not act logic, but by the rules.
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Re: Thunderstomp Question
I have read the entire thread and your reference to the BRB. And i agree with sirkently here that spells can giveunicorn wrote: What about to try to read whole discussion above your post?
And what about to check the page reference given above?
BRB 66. Spells cause special rules.
models special rules. It doesn´t say that spell effects are special rules.
Yeah i agree sometimes the BRB is not logic. But here it is clear that a spell that boosts your strength also gives a bonus to your stomp. Since a spell effect is not a special rule, equipment nor a magic item.unicorn wrote: Lol. This is pretty funny, as your arguments makes perfects sense logic-wise. But there is the problem that this game often do not act logic, but by the rules. Potion of strength is magic item and there is no doubt that the +3S will not affect your thunderstomp. As well as any talisman/armor who increases your strength (and as well as spells, but let this aside - we both already stated our points in this case). It is effect of magic items what is something clearly solved in FAQ.
But yeah, this game is often counter-logic and sometimes, it is pretty annoying
Regarding the potion of strength (PoS) however it is more of an interpretation issue. Yes the PoS is a magic item and drinking it means you are using a magic item but that doesn´t mean that your strength transforms into a magic item. And as far as i know you don´t beat your enemy with the empty bottle I know would allow it in my games, but it is up to each individual how they wish to interprete the rules and use them
Edited my explanation a bit so it made it clearer what i meant
Last edited by Slugg087 on 13 May 2011, 13:49, edited 1 time in total.
- unicorn
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Re: Thunderstomp Question
I do not find funny that you interpret the rules different that me. I find funny that while your arguments are perfectly logical (I mean that " You aren't hitting with the potion, it has already been used up. It doesn't exist anymore, and you have a short duration bonus to strength."), they are not based on the rules, but on common sense. What is pretty ironical, if you think about it.sirkently wrote:I always play by the rules. The fact that I interpret them differently than you, while you may find that funny, doesn't mean that I am trying to cheat. I understand your argument, but I disagree with it. I think you are extrapolating from what is actually written, to conform to your view of the rules. I just don't think that extrapolation is correct.unicorn wrote:Lol. This is pretty funny, as your arguments makes perfects sense logic-wise. But there is the problem that this game often do not act logic, but by the rules.
Unicorn's conversions (updated 1st Jun)
Painted
BSB, mounted noble, WD noble, Branchie, Alter, Treeman, 12 WR, 10 WD, 10 GR, 10 WW, 5 Dryads, 5 WhR, 6 Tk, Altar of Khaine
Finished
Treeman, 10 WD, dragon lord, Alter, 9 WhR, 5 GR, DE sin, OK Butcher, Beast heroes x5
Painted
BSB, mounted noble, WD noble, Branchie, Alter, Treeman, 12 WR, 10 WD, 10 GR, 10 WW, 5 Dryads, 5 WhR, 6 Tk, Altar of Khaine
Finished
Treeman, 10 WD, dragon lord, Alter, 9 WhR, 5 GR, DE sin, OK Butcher, Beast heroes x5
- unicorn
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Re: Thunderstomp Question
I think you miss one crucial sentense:Slugg087 wrote:And i agree with sirkently here that spells can give
models special rules. It doesn´t say that spell effects are special rules.
A special rule can boost a model's chances of causing damage, such as by granting poisoned weapons, or enhance its Strength.
Unicorn's conversions (updated 1st Jun)
Painted
BSB, mounted noble, WD noble, Branchie, Alter, Treeman, 12 WR, 10 WD, 10 GR, 10 WW, 5 Dryads, 5 WhR, 6 Tk, Altar of Khaine
Finished
Treeman, 10 WD, dragon lord, Alter, 9 WhR, 5 GR, DE sin, OK Butcher, Beast heroes x5
Painted
BSB, mounted noble, WD noble, Branchie, Alter, Treeman, 12 WR, 10 WD, 10 GR, 10 WW, 5 Dryads, 5 WhR, 6 Tk, Altar of Khaine
Finished
Treeman, 10 WD, dragon lord, Alter, 9 WhR, 5 GR, DE sin, OK Butcher, Beast heroes x5
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Re: Thunderstomp Question
Yes a special rule can enhance a models strength but that doesn´t mean that everytime a models strength is enhanced it is a special rule.unicorn wrote:I think you miss one crucial sentense:Slugg087 wrote:And i agree with sirkently here that spells can give
models special rules. It doesn´t say that spell effects are special rules.
A special rule can boost a model's chances of causing damage, such as by granting poisoned weapons, or enhance its Strength.
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Re: Thunderstomp Question
A special rule can give you a plus to strength. That doesn't mean that a plus to strength is a special rule. I can find no correlation in the rules that would lead me to believe that. The unicorn's charge bonus is a good example of a special rule that gives a bonus to strength.unicorn wrote:I think you miss one crucial sentense:
A special rule can boost a model's chances of causing damage, such as by granting poisoned weapons, or enhance its Strength.
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Re: Thunderstomp Question
And just to be clear, my arguments are always based on the rules. I have played long enough to know that GW doens't know the meaning of common sense in a lot of instances.unicorn wrote:I find funny that while your arguments are perfectly logical, they are not based on the rules, but on common sense.
- unicorn
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Re: Thunderstomp Question
Do not do this to me, I just nearly fall of my chair!sirkently wrote:I have played long enough to know that GW doens't know the meaning of common sense in a lot of instances.
Unicorn's conversions (updated 1st Jun)
Painted
BSB, mounted noble, WD noble, Branchie, Alter, Treeman, 12 WR, 10 WD, 10 GR, 10 WW, 5 Dryads, 5 WhR, 6 Tk, Altar of Khaine
Finished
Treeman, 10 WD, dragon lord, Alter, 9 WhR, 5 GR, DE sin, OK Butcher, Beast heroes x5
Painted
BSB, mounted noble, WD noble, Branchie, Alter, Treeman, 12 WR, 10 WD, 10 GR, 10 WW, 5 Dryads, 5 WhR, 6 Tk, Altar of Khaine
Finished
Treeman, 10 WD, dragon lord, Alter, 9 WhR, 5 GR, DE sin, OK Butcher, Beast heroes x5