Caitsidhe All Comers Ard Boyz List
Moderator: Council of Elders
- Shandrakor
- Shadow Sentinel
- Posts: 2397
- Joined: 12 Jul 2010, 11:09
- Armies I play: Wood Elves
- Location: Ohio, USA
Re: Caitsidhe All Comers Ard Boyz List
Yeah, I've tried the dual Spellweavers thing and it's bad enough with 1 to get to use all your spells let alone getting to use them with 2 Level 3+'s.
The Wardancer bunker method I've also tried and it's really hit or miss. If you get everything off the way you want it to, it works like magic. *queue bad pun* Then again, if your spells get dispelled, your left with a super fragile unit, that while it can do ok damage, you can't really expect much from it and it has no lasting power. Unlike the Treekin, which don't need characters to be effective.
I actually tried this list last night against a tricked out Daemons list. Unfortunately, it being the first time I've used it and the opponent knowing his list inside out, plus the fact that Daemons negate our forest spirit ward save inherently kinda made the battle one sided in his favor. Oh well. Live and learn is what I say.
The Wardancer bunker method I've also tried and it's really hit or miss. If you get everything off the way you want it to, it works like magic. *queue bad pun* Then again, if your spells get dispelled, your left with a super fragile unit, that while it can do ok damage, you can't really expect much from it and it has no lasting power. Unlike the Treekin, which don't need characters to be effective.
I actually tried this list last night against a tricked out Daemons list. Unfortunately, it being the first time I've used it and the opponent knowing his list inside out, plus the fact that Daemons negate our forest spirit ward save inherently kinda made the battle one sided in his favor. Oh well. Live and learn is what I say.
Well, my ideas for the next book turned out to be a bust.
But it was still fun working on something of this scale.
For those who care:
http://www.asrai.org/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=22620
But it was still fun working on something of this scale.
For those who care:
http://www.asrai.org/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=22620
- Noght
- Bladesinger
- Posts: 727
- Joined: 10 Jan 2011, 13:53
- Armies I play: Empire, Wood Elves, Orcs & Goblins
- Location: Normal, IL
Re: Caitsidhe All Comers Ard Boyz List
Love the list and the idea behind it.
Quick Questions:
1. Is the Unicorn ok to be on the Cavalry Base? I have 2 models, both on the Cavalry Base, I'd hate to have to move it to a Monster Base.
2. Regarding the Treekin Telport option: Can you move the Treekin unit into a Woods, pop the Moonstone and Teleport to another Woods? I love the "magic charge" Call of the Hunt out of the Woods option.
3. Waywatchers and Scout Noble can split targets? WW for KB and HODA Noble on opposing missle (read lightly armored) troops?
Thanks Cat, need to get the Treekin Dilemma figured out, I refuse to pay $20+ for a single model so I plan to bulk up a bunch of Plastic Dryads with bits on 40mm bases as my Treekin.
Noght
Quick Questions:
1. Is the Unicorn ok to be on the Cavalry Base? I have 2 models, both on the Cavalry Base, I'd hate to have to move it to a Monster Base.
2. Regarding the Treekin Telport option: Can you move the Treekin unit into a Woods, pop the Moonstone and Teleport to another Woods? I love the "magic charge" Call of the Hunt out of the Woods option.
3. Waywatchers and Scout Noble can split targets? WW for KB and HODA Noble on opposing missle (read lightly armored) troops?
Thanks Cat, need to get the Treekin Dilemma figured out, I refuse to pay $20+ for a single model so I plan to bulk up a bunch of Plastic Dryads with bits on 40mm bases as my Treekin.
Noght
"Spirit of the Game arguments are used by Role Players who get their A$$es kicked by Wargammers."
- Frimbleglim
- Bladesinger
- Posts: 687
- Joined: 10 Dec 2010, 00:48
- Armies I play: Wood Elves, Vampire Counts, Eldar
- Location: Dorset UK
Re: Caitsidhe All Comers Ard Boyz List
1. Depends this is not clear from GW rules/online supplements etc. Ask your tournament organiser or get your club to agree on a standard base size as appropriate. The same goes for the stag. This effects the treekin teleport tactic as you can only fit 4 treekin + unicorn in your 'free' 6" wood if the unicorn is on a 50mm square base rather than 5 treekin + unicorn if the unicorn is on a 25mmx50mm cavalry base. My own list http://www.asrai.org/viewtopic.php?f=13 ... 13#p269313 uses the moonstone differently as I expect the ruling to be for unicorns onf 50mm square bases although there is still a good argument for using caitsidhe's treekin ploy.Noght wrote:Love the list and the idea behind it.
Quick Questions:
1. Is the Unicorn ok to be on the Cavalry Base? I have 2 models, both on the Cavalry Base, I'd hate to have to move it to a Monster Base.
2. Regarding the Treekin Telport option: Can you move the Treekin unit into a Woods, pop the Moonstone and Teleport to another Woods? I love the "magic charge" Call of the Hunt out of the Woods option.
3. Waywatchers and Scout Noble can split targets? WW for KB and HODA Noble on opposing missle (read lightly armored) troops?
Thanks Cat, need to get the Treekin Dilemma figured out, I refuse to pay $20+ for a single model so I plan to bulk up a bunch of Plastic Dryads with bits on 40mm bases as my Treekin.
Noght
2. Yes. That is a standard use of the moonstone.
3. No. Not if they are in the same unit.
Last edited by Frimbleglim on 06 Mar 2011, 16:36, edited 1 time in total.
Elf-light, bat-light,
Touchwood-light and toad-light,
And the sea a shimmering gloom of grey,
And a small face smiling
In a dream's beguiling
In a world of wonders far away.
Touchwood-light and toad-light,
And the sea a shimmering gloom of grey,
And a small face smiling
In a dream's beguiling
In a world of wonders far away.
Re: Caitsidhe All Comers Ard Boyz List
That should say "in a 6-inch wood." You can fit a lot more in larger woods, obviously. So some of it depends on how the table comes up.Frimbleglim wrote:... you can only fit 4 treekin + unicorn in a wood if the unicorn is on a 50mm square base rather than 5 treekin + unicorn if the unicorn is on a 25mmx50mm cavalry base...
- Frimbleglim
- Bladesinger
- Posts: 687
- Joined: 10 Dec 2010, 00:48
- Armies I play: Wood Elves, Vampire Counts, Eldar
- Location: Dorset UK
Re: Caitsidhe All Comers Ard Boyz List
Thanks Treed. Fixed.Treed wrote:That should say "in a 6-inch wood." You can fit a lot more in larger woods, obviously. So some of it depends on how the table comes up.Frimbleglim wrote:... you can only fit 4 treekin + unicorn in a wood if the unicorn is on a 50mm square base rather than 5 treekin + unicorn if the unicorn is on a 25mmx50mm cavalry base...
Elf-light, bat-light,
Touchwood-light and toad-light,
And the sea a shimmering gloom of grey,
And a small face smiling
In a dream's beguiling
In a world of wonders far away.
Touchwood-light and toad-light,
And the sea a shimmering gloom of grey,
And a small face smiling
In a dream's beguiling
In a world of wonders far away.
- Beithir Seun
- The Philosopher
- Posts: 17411
- Joined: 18 Apr 2006, 18:03
- Armies I play: Wood Elves, Bretonnians | Sylvaneth, Soulblight Gravelords | Astra Militarum, Tau
- Location: Staffordshire, UK
Re: Caitsidhe All Comers Ard Boyz List
Just chiming in quickly - the same shouldn't go for the Stag. There is only one Stag model, and it only comes with a 50mm base, which is what it should be based on.Frimbleglim wrote:The same goes for the stag.
The Unicorn is only different because there are two different models for two different armies, each from two different editions and with two different bases
Carrot and Stick ~ Beithir's Blog
- Frimbleglim
- Bladesinger
- Posts: 687
- Joined: 10 Dec 2010, 00:48
- Armies I play: Wood Elves, Vampire Counts, Eldar
- Location: Dorset UK
Re: Caitsidhe All Comers Ard Boyz List
Actualy the Unicorn is different because there are conflicting rules published. BRB says that models should be played on the bases they are supplied with (25mm for wood elf unicorn such as the one I bought a few years ago http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i48 ... AG0266.jpg) but there have also been suplements published saying explicitely that the unicorn belongs on a 50mm square base.Beithir Seun wrote:Just chiming in quickly - the same shouldn't go for the Stag. There is only one Stag model, and it only comes with a 50mm base, which is what it should be based on.Frimbleglim wrote:The same goes for the stag.
The Unicorn is only different because there are two different models for two different armies, each from two different editions and with two different bases
The reason I mentioned the stag is that Caitsidhe claims he was supplied one on a 25mmx50mm cavalry base. http://www.asrai.org/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=19775
Elf-light, bat-light,
Touchwood-light and toad-light,
And the sea a shimmering gloom of grey,
And a small face smiling
In a dream's beguiling
In a world of wonders far away.
Touchwood-light and toad-light,
And the sea a shimmering gloom of grey,
And a small face smiling
In a dream's beguiling
In a world of wonders far away.
- Beithir Seun
- The Philosopher
- Posts: 17411
- Joined: 18 Apr 2006, 18:03
- Armies I play: Wood Elves, Bretonnians | Sylvaneth, Soulblight Gravelords | Astra Militarum, Tau
- Location: Staffordshire, UK
Re: Caitsidhe All Comers Ard Boyz List
Frimbleglim wrote: Actualy the Unicorn is different because there are conflicting rules published. BRB says that models should be played on the bases they are supplied with (25mm for wood elf unicorn such as the one I bought a few years ago http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i48 ... AG0266.jpg) but there have also been suplements published saying explicitely that the unicorn belongs on a 50mm square base.
.....which is because there are two different models. The "Wood Elf" unicorn (which isn't actually a Wood Elf unicorn at all, but the original Fey Enchantress' unicorn model) was released in 5th Edition, which comes on a 25x50mm base (because it was a cavalry model). The only unicorn model released since then is the new Fey Enchantress model, which comes on a 50mm base. The conflict is because of these two different models, both with different bases.
Carrot and Stick ~ Beithir's Blog
- Frimbleglim
- Bladesinger
- Posts: 687
- Joined: 10 Dec 2010, 00:48
- Armies I play: Wood Elves, Vampire Counts, Eldar
- Location: Dorset UK
Re: Caitsidhe All Comers Ard Boyz List
Not exactly. The unicorn of the warhammer cronicals wood elf list was a cavalry mount went on a cavalry base. There was a supplement (that I have right by me now) included with a white dwarf magazine a year or two before the current wood elf army book was published that says that unicorns in the wood elf army should go on 50mm square bases but this was FAQed saying that the cavalry version should be used until the new wood elf army book was published. When the book was published the unicorn was a monster mount (there was no such thing as monstrous beast or monstrous cavalry at the time as I'm sure you know).Beithir Seun wrote:Frimbleglim wrote: Actualy the Unicorn is different because there are conflicting rules published. BRB says that models should be played on the bases they are supplied with (25mm for wood elf unicorn such as the one I bought a few years ago http://i1095.photobucket.com/albums/i48 ... AG0266.jpg) but there have also been suplements published saying explicitely that the unicorn belongs on a 50mm square base.
.....which is because there are two different models. The "Wood Elf" unicorn (which isn't actually a Wood Elf unicorn at all, but the original Fey Enchantress' unicorn model) was released in 5th Edition, which comes on a 25x50mm base (because it was a cavalry model). The only unicorn model released since then is the new Fey Enchantress model, which comes on a 50mm base. The conflict is because of these two different models, both with different bases.
At that time the 50mm base was clearly appropriate as it was the standard monster base although it made the unicorn of dubious usefulness. You could argue that such old tables hold no relevance to the current game and in a sense they don't except that anyone who made a unicorn for tournament use at the time would have had to put it on a 50mmx50mm base for it to be legal regardless of what the model was.
Now that the wording of the rules have been changed it is possible for players to argue that they can put their unicorns back on the smaller bases as GW still ship unicorns on bases this size.
Elf-light, bat-light,
Touchwood-light and toad-light,
And the sea a shimmering gloom of grey,
And a small face smiling
In a dream's beguiling
In a world of wonders far away.
Touchwood-light and toad-light,
And the sea a shimmering gloom of grey,
And a small face smiling
In a dream's beguiling
In a world of wonders far away.
Re: Caitsidhe All Comers Ard Boyz List
This is the situation in a nutshell. If you go online to Games Workshop and order a Unicorn from their bits area, it will come on a cavalry base. That is how they continue to ship it. That is even how it is shown in the picture. Per the basic rule book, you can continue to use it on the base it is shipped with. I agree that the Unicorn will probably be corrected by Faq at some point or when they release a new version. Until then, you can use it either way. I have slowly started using it on a larger base just to get myself off the convenient crutch of the smaller base. This way I won't be so put out when it become mandatory. However, you can STILL legally play it on a cavalry base. The Stag however, only ships (and as far as I know) always shipped on the larger base and you are stuck with that.
- Frimbleglim
- Bladesinger
- Posts: 687
- Joined: 10 Dec 2010, 00:48
- Armies I play: Wood Elves, Vampire Counts, Eldar
- Location: Dorset UK
Re: Caitsidhe All Comers Ard Boyz List
Ah, ok that's not what you said before:
Caitsidhe wrote:Mine came with a cavalry base too. It has never been an issue for me because I never field it. I think ti is terrible.Frimbleglim wrote:Fair enough then.
That's crazy though. What size base does the stag come with?
Elf-light, bat-light,
Touchwood-light and toad-light,
And the sea a shimmering gloom of grey,
And a small face smiling
In a dream's beguiling
In a world of wonders far away.
Touchwood-light and toad-light,
And the sea a shimmering gloom of grey,
And a small face smiling
In a dream's beguiling
In a world of wonders far away.
- Beithir Seun
- The Philosopher
- Posts: 17411
- Joined: 18 Apr 2006, 18:03
- Armies I play: Wood Elves, Bretonnians | Sylvaneth, Soulblight Gravelords | Astra Militarum, Tau
- Location: Staffordshire, UK
Re: Caitsidhe All Comers Ard Boyz List
Caitsidhe wrote:This is the situation in a nutshell. If you go online to Games Workshop and order a Unicorn from their bits area, it will come on a cavalry base. That is how they continue to ship it. That is even how it is shown in the picture. Per the basic rule book, you can continue to use it on the base it is shipped with. I agree that the Unicorn will probably be corrected by Faq at some point or when they release a new version. Until then, you can use it either way. I have slowly started using it on a larger base just to get myself off the convenient crutch of the smaller base. This way I won't be so put out when it become mandatory. However, you can STILL legally play it on a cavalry base. The Stag however, only ships (and as far as I know) always shipped on the larger base and you are stuck with that.
Which is the point I was making originally God knows why GW can't just make a ruling either way on the Unicorn issue, but the Stag shouldn't even have an issue.
Carrot and Stick ~ Beithir's Blog
- Frimbleglim
- Bladesinger
- Posts: 687
- Joined: 10 Dec 2010, 00:48
- Armies I play: Wood Elves, Vampire Counts, Eldar
- Location: Dorset UK
Re: Caitsidhe All Comers Ard Boyz List
Amen to that.Beithir Seun wrote: Which is the point I was making originally God knows why GW can't just make a ruling either way on the Unicorn issue, but the Stag shouldn't even have an issue.
Elf-light, bat-light,
Touchwood-light and toad-light,
And the sea a shimmering gloom of grey,
And a small face smiling
In a dream's beguiling
In a world of wonders far away.
Touchwood-light and toad-light,
And the sea a shimmering gloom of grey,
And a small face smiling
In a dream's beguiling
In a world of wonders far away.
- Noght
- Bladesinger
- Posts: 727
- Joined: 10 Jan 2011, 13:53
- Armies I play: Empire, Wood Elves, Orcs & Goblins
- Location: Normal, IL
Re: Caitsidhe All Comers Ard Boyz List
Thanks for the quick replys all.
I'll assume the Cavalry Base on the Unicorn then. Thinking about running the unit as Treekin x4 with Champ and the Spellweaver/Unicorn as a slightly smaller Teleporting unit.
I also plan on adding a small unit of Warhawk riders for War Machine Hunting/Rear Charging/Mage Hunting.
Noght
I'll assume the Cavalry Base on the Unicorn then. Thinking about running the unit as Treekin x4 with Champ and the Spellweaver/Unicorn as a slightly smaller Teleporting unit.
I also plan on adding a small unit of Warhawk riders for War Machine Hunting/Rear Charging/Mage Hunting.
Noght
"Spirit of the Game arguments are used by Role Players who get their A$$es kicked by Wargammers."
- Frimbleglim
- Bladesinger
- Posts: 687
- Joined: 10 Dec 2010, 00:48
- Armies I play: Wood Elves, Vampire Counts, Eldar
- Location: Dorset UK
Re: Caitsidhe All Comers Ard Boyz List
Just take one Eternal kindred noble on eagle with light armour, shield, spear or great-weapon and glamour-weave (item not kindred). That will get the job done better, will only be slightly more points and will cost you less money.Noght wrote: I also plan on adding a small unit of Warhawk riders for War Machine Hunting/Rear Charging/Mage Hunting.
Elf-light, bat-light,
Touchwood-light and toad-light,
And the sea a shimmering gloom of grey,
And a small face smiling
In a dream's beguiling
In a world of wonders far away.
Touchwood-light and toad-light,
And the sea a shimmering gloom of grey,
And a small face smiling
In a dream's beguiling
In a world of wonders far away.
Re: Caitsidhe All Comers Ard Boyz List
From the Base Chart GW released in 7th ed Unicorns with a character mounted are 50mm square.
However since this file (have a copy here seems non-existant any longer on GWs site, GW ships a Unicorn with a Cavalry base and GW has not made an attempt to publish an updated (with Unit Type instead of Unit Str) list I am not arguing against a Unicorn on a Cavalry base.
However since this file (have a copy here seems non-existant any longer on GWs site, GW ships a Unicorn with a Cavalry base and GW has not made an attempt to publish an updated (with Unit Type instead of Unit Str) list I am not arguing against a Unicorn on a Cavalry base.
- Noght
- Bladesinger
- Posts: 727
- Joined: 10 Jan 2011, 13:53
- Armies I play: Empire, Wood Elves, Orcs & Goblins
- Location: Normal, IL
Re: Caitsidhe All Comers Ard Boyz List
Already got 4 painted Warhawks so they are available. Nice idea though.Frimbleglim wrote:Just take one Eternal kindred noble on eagle with light armour, shield, spear or great-weapon and glamour-weave (item not kindred). That will get the job done better, will only be slightly more points and will cost you less money.Noght wrote: I also plan on adding a small unit of Warhawk riders for War Machine Hunting/Rear Charging/Mage Hunting.
Noght
"Spirit of the Game arguments are used by Role Players who get their A$$es kicked by Wargammers."
Re: Caitsidhe All Comers Ard Boyz List
Just making a tactic suggestion that can be quite useful. If you have more than 1 wood of your side of the field you can deploy your dryads in the centre-most forest (following your tactic preference) granting them the ability to be stubborn, keep them put in the forest and just move it up the field with Treesinging from your TMA and TM (You can do it 3 times per magic phase, granting you have nothing better to cast which usually happens turn 1 since the offensive spells in LoL have short range). This makes them -2 to shoot at and always stubborn which can save your unit from breaking (depending on how combat goes) especially if they are not within range of BSB reroll.
- Ember of the Hidden Paths
- Horsemaster
- Posts: 342
- Joined: 14 Oct 2010, 11:18
Re: Caitsidhe All Comers Ard Boyz List
the great thing about this list is its ability to bring characters to the board in an effective and especially fun way
it kind of gives the list character and interest
it kind of gives the list character and interest
One does not simply take a Wild Rider charge...
Re: Caitsidhe All Comers Ard Boyz List
At risk of bringing up an old subject that may have been put to bed already, but the idea of placing a unit of 6 Treekin with a Spellweaver on a Unicorn/Elven Steed with a 25mm x 50mm base into your free 6" wood doesn't work. If I've missed something please let me know as I was really taken with this idea but if you draw a 6" diameter circle you can't fit that unit into it when following the correct rules for placing characters into units - i.e. at the side in this combination of models.
Has anyone else found this to be a problem or do people just 'fudge' (read 6.5") their free wood?!
I'm sure there is a simply way round this and I'd love to know it as it seems a great strategy.
Has anyone else found this to be a problem or do people just 'fudge' (read 6.5") their free wood?!
I'm sure there is a simply way round this and I'd love to know it as it seems a great strategy.
Silver Sentinels Painting Blog http://asrai.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&p=314502#p314502
- Frimbleglim
- Bladesinger
- Posts: 687
- Joined: 10 Dec 2010, 00:48
- Armies I play: Wood Elves, Vampire Counts, Eldar
- Location: Dorset UK
Re: Caitsidhe All Comers Ard Boyz List
We know this. It works if the unicorn is on a 25mmx50mm base with 5 treekin. Caitsidhe has already been grilled on this more than once.Tenaka wrote:At risk of bringing up an old subject that may have been put to bed already, but the idea of placing a unit of 6 Treekin with a Spellweaver on a Unicorn/Elven Steed with a 25mm x 50mm base into your free 6" wood doesn't work. If I've missed something please let me know as I was really taken with this idea but if you draw a 6" diameter circle you can't fit that unit into it when following the correct rules for placing characters into units - i.e. at the side in this combination of models.
Has anyone else found this to be a problem or do people just 'fudge' (read 6.5") their free wood?!
I'm sure there is a simply way round this and I'd love to know it as it seems a great strategy.
Elf-light, bat-light,
Touchwood-light and toad-light,
And the sea a shimmering gloom of grey,
And a small face smiling
In a dream's beguiling
In a world of wonders far away.
Touchwood-light and toad-light,
And the sea a shimmering gloom of grey,
And a small face smiling
In a dream's beguiling
In a world of wonders far away.
- Tachunka
- Newcomer
- Posts: 95
- Joined: 22 Mar 2011, 01:53
- Armies I play: Wood Elves and Space Wolves
- Location: In the woods, hunting....
Re: Caitsidhe All Comers Ard Boyz List
When you have 6 treekin, I use them in 2 ranks since they are Monstrous Infantry. They fit just fine in a 6 inch diameter woods.
Re: Caitsidhe All Comers Ard Boyz List
Thanks alot guys. I did fear that this may be a dead issue! I also see that Caitsidhe has done another excellent post on 'ard boyz making this a little redundant. Cheers all the same.
Silver Sentinels Painting Blog http://asrai.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&p=314502#p314502
- Frimbleglim
- Bladesinger
- Posts: 687
- Joined: 10 Dec 2010, 00:48
- Armies I play: Wood Elves, Vampire Counts, Eldar
- Location: Dorset UK
Re: Caitsidhe All Comers Ard Boyz List
Note that Caitsidhe's new 'ar boyz list is designed to deal with specific scenario's. This one is more useful for normal games.
Elf-light, bat-light,
Touchwood-light and toad-light,
And the sea a shimmering gloom of grey,
And a small face smiling
In a dream's beguiling
In a world of wonders far away.
Touchwood-light and toad-light,
And the sea a shimmering gloom of grey,
And a small face smiling
In a dream's beguiling
In a world of wonders far away.
- Tachunka
- Newcomer
- Posts: 95
- Joined: 22 Mar 2011, 01:53
- Armies I play: Wood Elves and Space Wolves
- Location: In the woods, hunting....
Re: Caitsidhe All Comers Ard Boyz List
Final on the Unicorn. Here is the link and it indeed comes with the cavalry base. I just got my second one via mail order.
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catal ... rod1140267
http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catal ... rod1140267