On a search for well-done GW models.

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Hjiryon
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On a search for well-done GW models.

Post by Hjiryon »

Hello there!

I've been mulling over what models to get for my wood elves army for some time now and, having finally bought the last one (yeah right, but I'm able to field 3k points now, so I reckon it's time to focus on getting it all painted), I sat down to figure out where I'd opted not to get GWs models, and what I'd gone for instead. Here're my results so far:

1: Proportions!
I could rant on this for hours, but I'm not sure there's much point. GWs miniatures, generally speaking, seem to be strangely "off", anatomically speaking. With an army like Warriors of Chaos, who're muntated from here and to Kingdom Come, wearing huge and impractical plate armors to cover it all up, I guess it may not be that big a deal. With slender and graceful elves in little to no clothing... It's somewhat more annoying. A few observations:
Heads are genereally too big, and the same goes for hands.
Legs are often too thick (for example, take a look at Glade Guard).
Weapons are almost universally too large.

2: Level of detail.
I hate painting large regiments in general. I like painting individual, highdetail models (characters!) - but I guess that's a common trend.
My main problem with RnF troops is that they're generally not very detailed. So when looking for alternate miniatures, I generall end up with products where individual models will rival the degree of detail otherwise reserved for GWs characters.
Not that Wood Elves are bad at this by any stretch of imagination.

3: Static models.
I love Glade Guard. Not because the models are really detailed or anything, but because it's possible to pose them so there's some actualy movement in the models (serpentuation isn't out of the question, for noe ^_^); Eternal Guard are really good in this regard as well.
But on a more general note, I find a lot of GW modes severaly lacking in this aspect (Treekin would be an example of this, as is the treeman; you think they could do beter with the single models, but apprently not so).
Obviously, some of it has to do with the models needing to rank up properly; but even then, I find it problematic.

With these criteria in place, are there any GW models or model lines in particular I ought ot look into?
I really want to like GW models, but often find it hard, simply because I can often look at them and go "but someone already did this, just better".
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Re: On a search for well-done GW models.

Post by Quercia dei Eternita »

There is one solution to all of the above 'problems': converting!

If you convert you choose what parts you use, and therefore dictate the proportions. Same goes for the level of detail. With some Greenstuff you can add yours too. Static models have always been a bit of a problem for GW. It's either that or bigger bases to allow more dynamic. They chose the first.

It seems you're bored about the current GW model range. I think the models won't change much between ranges currently. The Vampire Counts just lost the clown head Skeletons, and got more realistic proportions.

If you want good models sculpted in proportion, detailed and less static, you could always look for different miniature ranges.
http://www.vampirecounts.net - Home of the Vampire Counts
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Re: On a search for well-done GW models.

Post by lune »

GW has always made miniatures in a more cartoonistic style. This has benn changed only a few months ago. The previously mentioned skellies are a good example, another is the troll in the 7th starter. Yet, most models look cartoonish.
If you don't like this look browse the MEadow of Arts for Arimata's Blog - he's done a great job fixing this issue simply by making the legs of the mini longer, letting the whole mini look a lot more realistic (have seen some of the minis in reality and must say, they're even more astonishing than on the pictures here).
So go, pack your tools and greenstuff :D
Or, if you don't like it, you'll have to buy a hell of metal models from different ranges (reaper would be a good starter, butthere are too plenty to count them).

If you're insisting on almost realistical proportions, I can only suggest you 2 things from my current experience: model your own ones or look at some of the Anima Tactics miniatures.. especially the limited edition Khaine model. Should be much more like the models you seem to be aiming for.
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Re: On a search for well-done GW models.

Post by Hjiryon »

Thanks for the feedback, it's something to think about, certainly.

I find the Anima Tactics line to be very hit or miss, personally. Some of the models are great (and I mean really great) and some are downright awful. Right now,
I'm a fan of ultraforge, Gamezone Miniatures, old confrontation models (get ye gone, oh ppp horrors), Andrea (very few 28 mm models, sadly). Stepping away from fantasy, I think Infinity comes really close as far as models go. Especially the newer models where faces look less out of proportion (they're actually often TOO thin, though and with too bulky weapons. Can end up looking really strange). Reaper: Well, they have everything, so obviously they have models I like. :)

Modelling my own minis? There's a brave new world. I have ideas. I lack talent and experience. Sounds like I should take it up. And yes, Arimata's conversions solves a lot of problems (elegantly, too). Instead of making oversized stuff smaller, he just makes everything else larger (the downright insane amount of work on each individual model is a marvel as well, of course).
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Re: On a search for well-done GW models.

Post by lune »

Hjiryon wrote:I find the Anima Tactics line to be very hit or miss, personally. Some of the models are great (and I mean really great) and some are downright awful.
qft :)
Back on topic: Maybe the one ore other hazzelfree miniature could be to your liking.
Gamezone minis (especially the eagles) are to clumsy made you have actually enough greenstuffing to do that working on a miniature Arimata style is actually less work in my experience ;)
If you still need some more ideas, I'd suggest looking through the CMON shop. They also have models from companies with very limited amounts of miniatures and the one or other might be of your interest (though I doupt Soda Pop is what you search for :p ).
Don't remember the name right now, but the famous modeller Werner Klocke has an own company now and gathered soem talented people around himself. Maybe the one or other miniature could please you too there :D
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Re: On a search for well-done GW models.

Post by HannahFKW »

Yeah, if you're not happy with the model's you should try converting them, I don't like GW's wild riders at all, too much armour for my liking and they're all male, anyway I am converting the 2002 edition Seekers of Slaanesh into my wildriders and they're looking pretty good, just gave them some spears (which I made) and my boyfriend reculpted some hands etc...
<a href="http://s887.photobucket.com/albums/ac78 ... CF3332.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac78 ... CF3332.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
I am thinking of going for two units of 10, they may be an expensive purchase but they're AWESOME! I see them more as forest spirit's, and am currently painting them a sort of non-fleshy colour, kinda bluey/grey colour, look's good but sounds odd, I'll have to show you some photo's when they're done...
Uhm but take a look at my page of how my army is going so far, I think the treeman and treekin are FABOULOUS models, they look really tree like and really gnarled... I'm thinking of using my treeman as a treeman ancient and buying the LOLR ent's and converting them into treekin so I can have a unit of two of them as the treeman is quite expenisve!
http://www.asrai.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18572
But yeah propotions are a bit of a pain, and as a fine artist you notice them a lot particularly with hands and heads like you mentioned, but you just have to live with it, they're good models, but if you're really not happy then get your clippers and greenstuff out :)
I personally don't like the glade guard, really stupid to put together as they're are loads of gaps that need greenstuffing, they poses are a bit naff and very static (that is one of my pet hates; static-ness of models)... So I am actually thinking of selling my glade guard who are only half put together and aren't painted but some are undercoated, there are ab out 20-30 of them kicking about in a box somewhere...

Sorry for my little rant/essay :)
Han
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Re: On a search for well-done GW models.

Post by Hjiryon »

HannahFKW wrote:Yeah, if you're not happy with the model's you should try converting them, I don't like GW's wild riders at all, too much armour for my liking and they're all male, anyway I am converting the 2002 edition Seekers of Slaanesh into my wildriders and they're looking pretty good, just gave them some spears (which I made) and my boyfriend reculpted some hands etc...
<a href="http://s887.photobucket.com/albums/ac78 ... CF3332.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac78 ... CF3332.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
I am thinking of going for two units of 10, they may be an expensive purchase but they're AWESOME! I see them more as forest spirit's, and am currently painting them a sort of non-fleshy colour, kinda bluey/grey colour, look's good but sounds odd, I'll have to show you some photo's when they're done...
Uhm but take a look at my page of how my army is going so far, I think the treeman and treekin are FABOULOUS models, they look really tree like and really gnarled... I'm thinking of using my treeman as a treeman ancient and buying the LOLR ent's and converting them into treekin so I can have a unit of two of them as the treeman is quite expenisve!
http://www.asrai.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=18572
But yeah propotions are a bit of a pain, and as a fine artist you notice them a lot particularly with hands and heads like you mentioned, but you just have to live with it, they're good models, but if you're really not happy then get your clippers and greenstuff out :)
I personally don't like the glade guard, really stupid to put together as they're are loads of gaps that need greenstuffing, they poses are a bit naff and very static (that is one of my pet hates; static-ness of models)... So I am actually thinking of selling my glade guard who are only half put together and aren't painted but some are undercoated, there are ab out 20-30 of them kicking about in a box somewhere...

Sorry for my little rant/essay :)
Han
Rant? Hehe, you should see me when I get going then, so no worries... Speaking of which...

Static models is what I tend to focus on a lot as well. As long as proportions are not completely out the window, that's the first thing I look at. Even so, I find the Glade Guard to be the best plastics in the WE army without a doubt. I disliked the static models at first and they're low on detail (a gw plastic syndrome, sadly)... But they're a lot less static when you make these simple adjustments:
First, don't position the torso on the legs as it seems like you should (so they're basically shooting the direction their frontmost foot is pointing). Instead, twist them a little further. It enforces the idea of movement, and means that the model actually has a front arc on two of the four sides (assuming you put them on a base with the feet on a diagonal). Yay serpentuation (or however you translate that to English). Be careful not to overdo this, though, because it'll make the model look really odd. It's a balance, but it's not hard to find once you get it right the first time.
There's a specific set of feet that are in he middle of taking a step and hence look quite different - make sure your standard bearer is one of these, do not twist the torso as with the others, and the result ends up being decent.
They still suffer from "floating baloon head" syndrome, and too big hands, bulky legs and so forth... But I've come to think of that as standard for GW minis - even for most of their metals. But now, they're a little less static. They also rank up horribly, but I reckon your opponent will forgive you that.

On being a good painter: Haha, not really. I'm just really picky when it comes to models. In my experience, painting a model that I like means I'll be less rushed, making less mistakes and providing a better end result. They also tend to look better to begin with. I've been painting for a little over a year now, so I can hardly call myself good, or even decent, but I think of every single model as a learning experience and can say with confidence that I'm getting better in a steady manner. I do get better, but only so fast (to think, someone explained to me what a GW wash was three months ago and what it was good for; until then, I'd been mixing standard paints with water every single time. I felt so stupid).

And yes, the old seekers are absolutely awesome. Do post pictures when you're done with them. The choice of colour sounds odd, but then, you usually know what you're doing.
I've tried to stay away from converting for now, but since people seem to insist it's not really that hard, well... I do need to make myself a good BSB anyway (as per usual, the GW one is malproportioned and static).

@lune:

Freebooter: I dislike a lot of the Freebooter minis. I'm not really sure why, except that many of their heads seem much too big - sort of like the early infinity models, maybe?

Gamezone: This is going to sound really odd, but I find that the worst problem with the gamezone eagles is actually that individual parts are modelled too large for them to fit together. It helps a lot when you take a knife to the model and start cutting away (okay, that sounds really brutal, I know). Greenstuff is still needed, but much less so.
The more I look around, though, the less impressed I am with Gamezone minis. They still have the most awesome eagles I've seen to date, their bretonnian knights are awesome (if expensive) and their undead cavalry is more of win and awesome... But their infantry, in general, does not impress me.

Wait... You wrote hasslefree, not freebooter. My apologies. In that case:
I find it very hard to take hasslefree miniatures seriously. I guess it's my loss, because a few of the models do stand out as really good, but I find it hard to get past the "topless chick" syndrome that seems to be dominant in their line. Really, though, I guess it's a matter of looking through their line and finding the models I do like here and there. I find that this is much easier with Reaper, though.

Edits: Making clear who I was speaking to when. :)
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Re: On a search for well-done GW models.

Post by Herald »

I am just painting an old Legolas model (Marauder?), and I swear, his hands are bigger than his torso...

So no complaining over GG proportions, ya hear me! :D
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Re: On a search for well-done GW models.

Post by Cymskrag »

Hjiryon wrote:Thanks for the feedback, it's something to think about, certainly.

I find the Anima Tactics line to be very hit or miss, personally. Some of the models are great (and I mean really great) and some are downright awful. Right now,
I'm a fan of ultraforge, Gamezone Miniatures, old confrontation models (get ye gone, oh ppp horrors), Andrea (very few 28 mm models, sadly). Stepping away from fantasy, I think Infinity comes really close as far as models go. Especially the newer models where faces look less out of proportion (they're actually often TOO thin, though and with too bulky weapons. Can end up looking really strange). Reaper: Well, they have everything, so obviously they have models I like. :)
I'd never heard of Andrea before, but they have some beautiful stuff. Where on the website are the 28mm models, though?

It's a pity this guy is in 54mm scale, or else he would instantly become the best Elf lord on the planet. I guess he could serve as an Orion proxy, though.

Image
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Re: On a search for well-done GW models.

Post by Hjiryon »

Herald wrote:I am just painting an old Legolas model (Marauder?), and I swear, his hands are bigger than his torso...

So no complaining over GG proportions, ya hear me! :D
Hehe, I hear you. And I seem to remember seeing old LoTR models from before the movies and thinking they were ugly as sin - I forget which company made them, though.

The problem is when you compare GW Glade Guard with:
http://underthemountain.wordpress.com/a ... nee-elves/ - first two pictures (sorry for the odd link, but these are out of production minis, so I have to be a bit creative).
You can discuss the merits of being able to pose GG more freely, of them ranking up better and of them having more options for looking different in terms of equipment, maybe you can even argue that they're better models as far as concept goes (bigger cloaks, clearer forest theme). But for level of detail, dynamic poses and not least proportions, there's just no competition. Many Rackham models for elves and humans are a bit "stretched", meaning they're too thin or too tall - but since we're talking about fragile and nimble elves here, it works really well.
Trouble is, I use the Daikinee archer models for waywatchers already; with only five really different poses, I figure they're better off in small units (that, and I'm guessing the GW models will be so much easier to convert, for those thus inclined). :)
Otherwise, really, to find competing minis, I find myself delving into minis really better suited for characters (most recent find: http://www.miniaturenland.de/en/darkswo ... /1379.html) - which is another topic altogether. So for now, though I'm not saying they're perfect, GW probably has one of the best products for their own line - which is an achievement in and of itself.
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Re: On a search for well-done GW models.

Post by Hjiryon »

Cymskrag wrote:
Hjiryon wrote:Thanks for the feedback, it's something to think about, certainly.

I find the Anima Tactics line to be very hit or miss, personally. Some of the models are great (and I mean really great) and some are downright awful. Right now,
I'm a fan of ultraforge, Gamezone Miniatures, old confrontation models (get ye gone, oh ppp horrors), Andrea (very few 28 mm models, sadly). Stepping away from fantasy, I think Infinity comes really close as far as models go. Especially the newer models where faces look less out of proportion (they're actually often TOO thin, though and with too bulky weapons. Can end up looking really strange). Reaper: Well, they have everything, so obviously they have models I like. :)
I'd never heard of Andrea before, but they have some beautiful stuff. Where on the website are the 28mm models, though?

It's a pity this guy is in 54mm scale, or else he would instantly become the best Elf lord on the planet. I guess he could serve as an Orion proxy, though.

Image
That model is available in a 30mm version as well; look under their "battle series" (http://www.andrea-miniatures.com/market ... talle=1156)
And yes, he's an awesome model in 54 mm; the pose is very different in 30mm, which actually makes it difficult for the model to balance on a 20mm square base. I recommend placing him on a slope on the base or something (it's the cape that ruins the model's balance; it works perfectly fine on a 25 mm base, though that's not much of a help here).
Also, be aware that Andrea doesn't change their proportions much just because the model gets smaller, so those swords are very, very thin (which looks awesome, by the way); it doesn't make for the most robust model on the planet.

I risk sounding like a fanboy, but I'd also recommend this one from andrea: http://www.andrea-miniatures.com/market ... talle=1189
A bit on the skimpy side I guess and the head really could have been better (it's a seperate part, for all you conversion enthusiasts :) ), but otherwise one of the better female wood elf models I've seen about.
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Re: On a search for well-done GW models.

Post by HannahFKW »

Rant? Hehe, you should see me when I get going then, so no worries... Speaking of which...

Static models is what I tend to focus on a lot as well. As long as proportions are not completely out the window, that's the first thing I look at. Even so, I find the Glade Guard to be the best plastics in the WE army without a doubt. I disliked the static models at first and they're low on detail (a gw plastic syndrome, sadly)... But they're a lot less static when you make these simple adjustments:
First, don't position the torso on the legs as it seems like you should (so they're basically shooting the direction their frontmost foot is pointing). Instead, twist them a little further. It enforces the idea of movement, and means that the model actually has a front arc on two of the four sides (assuming you put them on a base with the feet on a diagonal). Yay serpentuation (or however you translate that to English). Be careful not to overdo this, though, because it'll make the model look really odd. It's a balance, but it's not hard to find once you get it right the first time.
There's a specific set of feet that are in he middle of taking a step and hence look quite different - make sure your standard bearer is one of these, do not twist the torso as with the others, and the result ends up being decent.
They still suffer from "floating baloon head" syndrome, and too big hands, bulky legs and so forth... But I've come to think of that as standard for GW minis - even for most of their metals. But now, they're a little less static. They also rank up horribly, but I reckon your opponent will forgive you that.

On being a good painter: Haha, not really. I'm just really picky when it comes to models. In my experience, painting a model that I like means I'll be less rushed, making less mistakes and providing a better end result. They also tend to look better to begin with. I've been painting for a little over a year now, so I can hardly call myself good, or even decent, but I think of every single model as a learning experience and can say with confidence that I'm getting better in a steady manner. I do get better, but only so fast (to think, someone explained to me what a GW wash was three months ago and what it was good for; until then, I'd been mixing standard paints with water every single time. I felt so stupid).

And yes, the old seekers are absolutely awesome. Do post pictures when you're done with them. The choice of colour sounds odd, but then, you usually know what you're doing.
I've tried to stay away from converting for now, but since people seem to insist it's not really that hard, well... I do need to make myself a good BSB anyway (as per usual, the GW one is malproportioned and static).
Yeah, I have tried moving the torso's and legs etc around a bit and they look ok, but like you mentioned the over sized proportions of the hands, balloon heads and GIGANTIC CLUNKY legs... Not really wood lef enough for me, they should be delicate, tall and slender and very nimble looking, not like whatever they look like :P But they're still quite good mini's, if only they looked like the one from Andrea, just in 28mm! PHWOAR! They would be awesome! I might have a look elsewhere for wood elf archers for my glade guard...

But I will hopefully be posting up some photo's soon of my wildrider (daemonette) standard bearer, she's not quite finished just a few tweeks to go... The blue kinda came from the idea of silver birch tree's and I see them as becoming 'invisible' when riding through the forest, and I wanted it to be a different colour from the steed which is a cool green and fleshy colour.

Han :)
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