How can you tell if your models are recasts or not???

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How can you tell if your models are recasts or not???

Postby HannahFKW » 04 Aug 2010, 15:30

I have just received 5 old and rare daemonette seeker's throught the post from ebay, and I allready have 15, as I am converting them into wildriders...
But the casting of the metal is really bad, it's very pitted/dark/and is slightly smaller tha my other's... :cry:

Does this mean that they are fake?
How can you tell if your models are fake???
I really really hope that they're not fake, as they are suck beautiful models that are quite hard to come by! And they were sent to me painted, but I have stripped them all which is how I noticed the differences in the metal! :cry:

Help needed asap! :cry:
Hannah
Last edited by HannahFKW on 05 Aug 2010, 09:11, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How can you tell if your models are fake or not???

Postby Kaepora Gaebora » 04 Aug 2010, 16:55

GW's quality does vary from cast to cast, even more so on older models. post pics? I know someone on another forum that could take a look.
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Re: How can you tell if your models are fake or not???

Postby Herald » 04 Aug 2010, 16:58

Firstly, is there such a thing as a fake mini? From time to time another company takes over production of certain minis, but that doesn't make them 'fakes'. What you see is what you get...

On the other hand, AFAIK, GW never sold any seeker models that can be mistaken for the Julian Dean (?) sculpts. They are much sought after models, also for converting purposes like yours (yes, they are gorgeous! :D ). But since you have noted that your models are a bit smaller than these, we are probably not talking any sort of DIY pirate sculpts, either.

Bit of a mystery this one, but again, if they look good, why worry? If you really want to figure this out, maybe posting a pic of them would help. Plus we wouldn't mind seeing your converted WRs either... ;)

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Re: How can you tell if your models are fake or not???

Postby HannahFKW » 04 Aug 2010, 18:11

Heya thanks for the replies, I shall try and gt you some photo's of them tonight at some point :)

Here are the 8 that are currently awaiting to be sprayed and painted...
http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac78 ... CF3336.jpg

And here are the four conversions that me and my boyfriend have currently done, the dagger's have been cut off and either replaced with a spear/standard (from the Glade Guard Box) or a horn for the musician (from my boyfriends bit's box)!
http://i887.photobucket.com/albums/ac78 ... CF3332.jpg

I'm hopefully going to have 2 units of 20! Can't wait!
Han
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Re: How can you tell if your models are fake or not???

Postby pel-thoron » 04 Aug 2010, 18:36

ive sculpted and moulded for several companies. yes there is such a thing as fake minis, there has been several older rarer figures (many squats and chaos dwarves have been mercilessly pirated) that people have moulded and copied- poor seam lines and pitting is a sign of inexperienced mould making and pewter/whitemetal/lead that has been hand cast instead of centrifugal cast. it happens, ive been approached to do it myself through my sculpting/fx company. of course, i didnt do it. bear in mind this doesnt mean yours are fake- as mentioned, older ones can appear different.
the best tell tale is vent sprues- when people make their own moulds its usually from rtv silicone, which they then have to cut the runs for the vents in (these apear as flash/sprues on the mini), whereas original casts have less sprue tabs etc due to being cast into pressed rubber centrifugal moulds which require less venting.
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Re: How can you tell if your models are fake or not???

Postby HannahFKW » 04 Aug 2010, 21:45

My boyfriend came home today, and as he is a sculptor for a company, he know's a lot about casting etc...
And he has declared that they are in fact fake! :cry:

Here's a list of thing's we noticed and you should look out for when buying models fromplaces such as eBay! (This doesn't mean that everyone on there sells fakes, I have bought numerous models from eBay and have had no trouble! But please be careful! Always look at feedback!)

+ DOUBLE MOULD LINES

+ THE COLOUR OF THE METAL, (IF IT IS DARKER AND QUITE SOFT THEN THIS IS LEAD, GAMESWORKSHOP AND MOST COMPANIES DO NOT USE LEAD ANY MORE, BUT YOU WHITE METAL SO THEY SHOUD BE QUITE SILVERY AND NOT BENDY!)

+ IS THE MODEL ANY SMALLER THAN THE ORIGINAL?

+ LOOK FOR ANY DISTORTION/MISS-CASTING!


What can you do about it?!?
KEEP ALL THE BITS! I HAVE PUT ALL THE BITS IN A SMALL PLASTIC BOX FOR SAFE KEEPING! AND CONTACT THE COMPANY WHO ORIGINALLY MAKES THE MINI'S!
Well today my boyfriend has emailed gamesworshop and we are awaiting an email from them now, in the email you msut give them the website you got it from, the seller etc! INCLUDE LINKS!
So hopefully GW will get back to us, I have heard that this has happened to one or two other's from another forum that my boyfriend is part of, and GW sent them money vouchers/models/etc for reporting it, and sued the company who provided the person with the fakes!
WELL DONE GAMESWORKSHOP!

I just thought I would let you all know what has happened to me and these mini's! As I really don't want it to happen to any of you!
I'll let you know how it all goes though! Any progress with this case I shall post up here for you all!

PLEASE BE CAREFUL!!! AND THIS DOES NOT MEAN IN ANYWAY THAT EBAY IS BAD, I USE FARELY FREQUENTLY AND THIS IS THE FIRST CASE OF IT THAT I HAVE EVER HAD!

Han!
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Re: How can you tell if your models are fake or not???

Postby HannahFKW » 04 Aug 2010, 22:01

The mini's that I am on ab out as well are the Games Workshop Seekers of Slaanesh that were produced in 2002 by Juan Diaz, and are out of production due to the new plastic one's!
Really awesome mini's the old one's! Great conversions (if you have the money) :(

Oh and by 'fake' I mean recasts! Osrry for any confusion! :smirk:
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Re: How can you tell if your models are recasts or not???

Postby HannahFKW » 05 Aug 2010, 12:50

Ok we have just heard back from Games Workshop, which was very quick seeing as we only emailed them last night! Show's that they're quite serious about this all!

Hi Robert
Thank you for contacting us about this. I’m sorry to hear you think you might have received some counterfeit figures.

My name is Talima Fox and I coordinate the counterfeit testing team at Games Workshop. If you would like to send me the models, I will get them checked out.

If you are in the UK, I have a Freepost address you can use so you won’t need to pay for postage. If you are not UK based then I will give you a different address to send them to and will refund your postage costs. This is normally done via Paypal. Let me know where you’ll be sending them from and I’ll send you the correct address.

If the results of the test confirm they are genuine or the results are inconclusive, I will post the models back to you as we have to be 100% sure that something is counterfeit before contacting the seller. If the models are confirmed to be fakes then if you paid for them via Paypal I can provide a letter which will help you with your claim for a refund. There is a time limit for this though – Paypal can confirm what it is – so please let me know what it is so I know how much time we have.

Hopefully we can provide you with some answers either way and it’s great to hear that this hasn’t affected your opinion of GW.


So we are currently sorting this out, which is fantastic! But it does mean that I will have to hunt for another 5 daemonettes! Expensive little things they are :cry:
I'll keep you all filled in with this...
Han (and Rob)
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Re: How can you tell if your models are recasts or not???

Postby HannahFKW » 05 Aug 2010, 16:32

Tomorrow as we are heading up to NOttingham we are dropping the models off to be checked over, and from there we will hopefully be getting our refund from the seller!
Gamesworkshop have been great with this!

Han
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Re: How can you tell if your models are recasts or not???

Postby Beithir Seun » 05 Aug 2010, 17:44

For all their faults GW do take the issue of counterfeit miniatures very seriously and, in my experience, will do everything they can to help people in this regard to get the issue sorted. Good luck with it all Hannah, hope everything gets sorted out OK because your daemonettes are great :D
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Re: How can you tell if your models are recasts or not???

Postby Quercia dei Eternita » 10 Aug 2010, 11:18

Bad stuff, this is! I hope all turns out well.

I have learned what I have to look for now before buying mini's :D

I like the conversions! I hope you can finish your unit.
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Re: How can you tell if your models are recasts or not???

Postby HannahFKW » 12 Aug 2010, 15:03

Currently on holiday everyone, but we managed to drop the mini's off and the team are currently checking them out and are carrying out some test's on them, so we will hopefully be hearing from them any day soon!
When they email us with the verdict on them, I will then see about buying some more more than likely unpainted etc!
I have started painting one of them allready, but you will all have to wait untill I get back off holiday to see what it looks like! :P
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Re: How can you tell if your models are recasts or not???

Postby HannahFKW » 17 Aug 2010, 09:18

We have sent a claim to the buyer via paypal, and are currently requesting a full refund! GW have said that theya re going to destroy the models as well... :nod:
I will know in 10 days what will happen with the refund, as if the buyer does not get in contact then paypal will automatically give me a refund!
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Re: How can you tell if your models are recasts or not???

Postby HannahFKW » 19 Aug 2010, 08:48

Woopee <.<
The guy we bought them from wants us to return the miniatures for a refund! HOW THE HELL DO WE DO THAT IS GW IS GOING TO DESTROY THEM! :confused:
Anyway we have had to email Talima Fox again about this situation, hopefully she will again be able to help us! :thumbsup:
I'm still on the look-out for a further 5 daemonettes riders, but I don't think I will buy any untill the momey from this comes through, as they're expensive! And I'm only a student!

Han
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Re: How can you tell if your models are recasts or not???

Postby SpOOn » 19 Aug 2010, 09:54

I'd be putting him in contact with the person at GW that has told you they are fake
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Re: How can you tell if your models are recasts or not???

Postby The Virgin Forest » 19 Aug 2010, 12:59

HannahFKW wrote: HOW THE HELL DO WE DO THAT IS GW IS GOING TO DESTROY THEM! :confused:


You don't. You inform him that the sale of counterfeit merchandise is against the law, and that you'll leave it up to GW whether to press charges against him. Then inform him that you'll proceed through PayPal for your refund, which they will surely arrange, since you haven't received what was promised in the auction.

When filing your claim with PayPal, you quote your correspondense with GW and refer to Tamiya.

Its a hassle, but arguing with a fraud is useless. It will probably take a few weeks/month for PayPal to come through, but just do it ASAP :)
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Re: How can you tell if your models are recasts or not???

Postby Cymskrag » 19 Aug 2010, 19:05

The Virgin Forest wrote:
HannahFKW wrote: HOW THE HELL DO WE DO THAT IS GW IS GOING TO DESTROY THEM! :confused:


You don't. You inform him that the sale of counterfeit merchandise is against the law, and that you'll leave it up to GW whether to press charges against him. Then inform him that you'll proceed through PayPal for your refund, which they will surely arrange, since you haven't received what was promised in the auction.

When filing your claim with PayPal, you quote your correspondense with GW and refer to Tamiya.

Its a hassle, but arguing with a fraud is useless. It will probably take a few weeks/month for PayPal to come through, but just do it ASAP :)

You really think they have the grounds to charge him?

He could claim that he received the models from someone else, and put them on ebay without knowing they were fakes. That story could even be true, for all we know.
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Re: How can you tell if your models are recasts or not???

Postby Herald » 19 Aug 2010, 20:19

Cymskrag wrote:You really think they have the grounds to charge him?

I really hope not. Casting your own copies of models is hardly illegal (at least where I come from). If you start producing them for commercial purposes, however, that would be theft of GW's intellectual property (Copyright laws). As he has in fact sold them, makes this a borderline case where GW's (expensive) lawyers could make a case if they wanted to make an example of it.

But selling them to HannaFKW on e-bay, he claimed they were GW Seekers models, which they technically speaking aren't. That is fraud. Probably not a case the police would give high priority ( :roll: ), but still good enough to put pressure on the guy, so that Hanna gets her money back without trouble. I don't know the details around Pay Pal, but it stands to reason that in case of a fraud, the seller can't ask for his wares back before he refunds your money... :)
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Re: How can you tell if your models are recasts or not???

Postby Kaepora Gaebora » 19 Aug 2010, 22:11

In this case through an agreement with PayPal and eBay, if you have done their "been verified", PayPal will refund the person directly and then locks the culprit's bank account or creditcard associated with their paypal account based on fraud. What they do next is up to paypal and ebay. usually make sure that they receive compensation for the refund they gave or just leave it locked and report the person for fraud or just ruin their credit or something. This is all in the fine print. Yes, PayPal is that scary and I've read that they have done this on accident and based on false accusations in the past too many times. Beware!
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Re: How can you tell if your models are recasts or not???

Postby The Virgin Forest » 19 Aug 2010, 22:59

Cymskrag wrote:You really think they have the grounds to charge him?

He could claim that he received the models from someone else, and put them on ebay without knowing they were fakes. That story could even be true, for all we know.


They do, he has been selling counterfeit merchandice. It depends on the country e.g. France and Italy takes these things very seriously - but its up to GW.

And ignorance is no excuse in the eyes of the law :)
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Re: How can you tell if your models are recasts or not???

Postby HannahFKW » 22 Aug 2010, 16:23

Thanks guys for you support :)
After a lot of holding on the phone to Paypal, they have retracted their first judgement, so we have now been able to upload the evidence against the company, and Paypal will let us now the final result by the 19th September!! WOO HOO! Maybe I will be getting my refund after all! :D

Han
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