Forest Spirits

Post by **Malvegil** » 31 Jul 2005, 00:50

As the title suggests, this thread is for discussing the Forest Spirits in the new list, ruleswise, not fluff. I'm not able to get the book in my hands for now, but I would like to gather some info before it.

As far as I know, it should be some kind of an alternative list, like Vampire Counts with the different Bloodlines. If this is the case, how much does it differ from the basic list? Are there some changes in what you can field or just changes in the "classing" of the unit, alas like in Hordes of Chaos book with Mortals and Daemons.

For the units in the list, how much does it have cavalry and potential march blockers such as Great Eagles or scouting units? Are Great Eagles even allowed to be fielded?

This is pretty much everything at the moment I would like to know, though I have a large reserve of another questions I didn't put up right now. If anyone can help me, I would appriciate it a lot.

Post by **Naggie** » 31 Jul 2005, 00:54

Basically, the forest spirits is like a special rule given to some units and characters. The rule itself is a bit similar to that of Daemonic, but not quite. Some units have the rule, some don't. It is not an alternative list, it is just a special rule. However, since there are characters who can have it, core units who can have it, special units who can have it, and rare unit who can have it - it is possible to create an army with only Forest Spirits.

Nagathi
The Daemonwhisperer

Post by **Thrask** » 31 Jul 2005, 02:44

Although if you take Drycha you can only take forest spirits.

Andruillius · Post by **Andruillius** » 31 Jul 2005, 03:07

With Drycha you can only take Forest Spirits, which is a restriction more than anything. And Special Characters is nothing to base an army on anyway...

I'm making a pure Forest Spirit army myself(that is without Wild Riders, how dare they call themselves that!), and I've had a few test games.
There's not much room for originality as you only have different units, one of each type(core,special,rare) and two characters, the Treeman lord and the dryad hero.

Dryads are silly good for their points, and once I learn to use them properly they're gonna be a pain for any opponents. And they have I6! Watch out for damage spells and pretty much anything with magical attacks as they'll rip through the things. Generally, magic is the one thing that really scares the Forest Spirits because of the lack of Dispel scrolls and -dice

Tree Kin can take on pretty much anything except high strength magical attacks and combat resolution. With M5 they're a bit slow, but if you can get them into a wood and sing it forward, you've got a mean tank.

Treeman and Treeman Ancient are only vulnerable to high strength magical attacks, and concentrated warmachine fire. Anything else will pretty much bounce off, and they kill the most. Stubborn Ld9 and 6 wounds T6 with 3+AS and 5+WS ? They're not going anywhere?

The Branchwraiths are good for dispel dice batteries and giving some punch to those dryad units. Give one of them the Annoyance of Netlings and Cluster of Malevolents and your puny 110pts hero can take on the most, except for combat resolution and magic.

Overall you've got a force that can take and give some serious punch, but because your whole army has M5 it's gonna take a little while to get there. Magic and multiple chariots/heavy cavalry units is your doom unless you've got plenty of woods, and there's nothing to hunt warmachines sending cannon balls flying at your Treemen. But my Last March of The Ents will grit their teeth(or whatever's in those mouths) and say "Bring it."
;-)

Post by **Arthion** » 31 Jul 2005, 03:10

If you take Drycha you have to take forest spirits iirc. And you get the ambush rule, similar to the beasts of chaos.

Forest spririts only are quite playable on their own.
On characters there are the ancient treeman (commander) and the branchwraith (hero) and the possibility to give to a fighty commander the wild hunt or to a mage glamourweave kindred which gives them the special tree spirit rules: magical attacks, immune to psychology, 5+ ward save against non magic attacks.

Core
Dryads: the allrounder of the Wood Elven army. Very useful. Cost less now and lost their aspects but are one of the cheapest models per points.

Special
Treekin: may be an anvil. Similar role to an Ushabti. Is better in taking damage than dealing it. But is all in all a decent choice.
Wild Hunt: the fast cavalry. Without them your list would lack the fast movement as dryad, treekin and treeman only have 5" movement.
They deal some serious damage, but are as all elves frail, even if they are technically tree spirits.

Rare
Treeman: More or less the same as in chronicles, treesinging on 3 now, 6 inch range attack, Ld of 8 and stubborn makes him a bit more instable. But has a good AS and ward against non magic. All in all still a tough monster.

So you end with an army which has a high toughness and medium speed, Ancient Treeman has 6 and Wild Hunt 9. Those two would be your fastest components. More an army list for an anvil and hammer battle I guess.

@ Andruillius: Of course the Wild Hunt dares to call themselves Tree Spirits too. They are the embodiment of Orion's Mighty Call for bloodshed. They left their Asrai lifes to give their soul to Kurnous. They are the Wild Hunt, not just an allegory to it. Nothing more or less.
And I thought treeman has ld of 8 like treekin and dryads?

Post by **Malvegil** » 31 Jul 2005, 03:18

Thank you all. Everything met pretty much my expectations and I'm growing more sure to be fielding a Forest Spirit army some coming day.

Though Arthion, how does that glamourweave kindred actually work? Is it like a Honour in the HE-list, alas does it take points from the magic items limitation? If it doesn't, they should be able to take Scrolls, which would give a secure magic defense to go with. Though if there's no way to get Scrolls to the list, then it needs a bit more consideration. But it all sounds very good, need to test them on the field though.

Andruillius · Post by **Andruillius** » 31 Jul 2005, 03:30

Kindreds do not take up magic allowance, so that's fine!
A spellsinger with Glamourweave can indeed take Dispel Scrolls as far as I can understand it. It's expensive as hell though, and you gotta mount her/him on a Steed or a Unicorn, which is why it's not an obvious choice. If you're going Impure Forest Spirits though, putting the 'singer in a Wild Rider unit might be good. Hmm....

Arthion: Ah, yes the Treeman has Ld8, but that's when I pull up my Treeman Ancient, grin at you and say "Have fun breaking."

I'm using my Treeman general for all he's worth...

Post by **Naggie** » 31 Jul 2005, 03:31

All characters can take a Kindred of some sort. The mages (lord and hero mages) can only take one of them. They work pretty much like Honours, and does not count towards the magic item limit.

Nagathi
The Daemonwhisperer

Post by **Arthion** » 31 Jul 2005, 03:40

Hm, yup a mage has to be mounted. And I guess it may not join a Wild Hunt for a bit of protection. Well sticking near to it may be as good in the end. Ah, yes, I remember they may as they are tree spirits too now.

Better not placing a mage on a unicorn or a fighter on a stag, if you want them to stay longer than the first two rounds around. They are on 40mm bases, don't deal much damage and are really vulnerable. They just can't hide anywhere in an unit for protection unless you use 5 or more treekin for it.

Post by **Lord_of_Eagles** » 31 Jul 2005, 03:45

they are not so useless, 2 S5/6 attacks can save the day(at ws 5 too). they re good in my case since i dont play ppl who pick out mounts for combat results(cept when its a dragon/griffon/hippogriff in which case the story is completely different). The white stag is great, causes fear ecc...decent and ill use it if i have the points, which i usually do

Post by **Arthion** » 31 Jul 2005, 03:54

Funny, because a character on a stag or unicorn will be worth a lot of points. And it is on it's own. It has no "Attention, Sir" help, or what the name for that rule is.
Even if you play fun games, everybody would pick a character on a toughness 4 monster which outshines through loneliness first, wouldn't they?

EDIT: If they don't get the character first and leave the monster be afterwards, Andruillius

.

Andruillius · Post by **Andruillius** » 31 Jul 2005, 03:54

It's not decent. It gets shot down. And when it has gotten shot down, they shoot your character, who's now on his own in the middle of the battlefield and on foot.

But they can be used for some things, yes. Like chasing Shadow Warrios.

Post by **Malvegil** » 31 Jul 2005, 03:59

Depending on the Lores available (LoS issue), you can still put the mage inside a wood if there's one. As with HE Seer Council.

Post by **Arthion** » 31 Jul 2005, 04:04

True, but why invest so many points for glamourweave and unicorn, a mage on foot is almost as good protected in the wood. Only the MR might really be an issue.

Post by **Malvegil** » 31 Jul 2005, 04:06

Arthion wrote:True, but why invest so many points for glamourweave and unicorn, a mage on foot is almost as good protected in the wood. Only the MR might really be an issue.

So it has to be a Unicorn? In that case it is more problematic.

Andruillius · Post by **Andruillius** » 31 Jul 2005, 04:10

No, you can buy the much cheaper Elven Steed.
Only the Athel Loren lore is available for the hero-spellcasters, but those have RnG 18¨ so it shouldn't be a big problem. With a Spellweaver you have access to the Life lore, and we know how little LoS you need for those spells...

Hmm, you're seriously making me consider converting a Dryad sitting on an old Treeman(Unicorn!) or something.

I want those Scrolls...

Post by **Arthion** » 31 Jul 2005, 04:10

Malvegil wrote:
Arthion wrote:True, but why invest so many points for glamourweave and unicorn, a mage on foot is almost as good protected in the wood. Only the MR might really be an issue.
So it has to be a Unicorn? In that case it is more problematic.

No you may take an elven steed too. But I thought we were discussing the monsters. Not the usual mounts. But I'm not sure the spellweaver or spellsinger need to take the glamourweave kindred at all if they want to sit on an elven steed.

Post by **Brandir** » 31 Jul 2005, 04:36

The Forest Spirit army is a very different army than your usual Wood Elf based army. No massed missile fire or infiltrating units.

Certainly a charge as quickly as possible tactic. But GW did a great job allowing an Asrai player to have two widely different armies.

But I have never used a pure Forest Spirit army and I am a wee bit unsure how useful it would be considering how many poinst most units will cost. But a pure Forest Spirit army should be easy to paint.

Post by **Cenyu** » 31 Jul 2005, 16:05

Dryads are I6? Oy vey... I don´t really see the justification for them being quicker than a standard elf or a Daemonette.

On topic: An all forest sprits army could be the cheapest army possible for WHFB if you choose to "convert" your models from twigs and branches from your garden shrubbery. That is definitely a plus.

Post by **Arthion** » 31 Jul 2005, 17:56

Cenyu wrote:Dryads are I6? Oy vey... I don´t really see the justification for them being quicker than a standard elf or a Daemonette.

On topic: An all forest sprits army could be the cheapest army possible for WHFB if you choose to "convert" your models from twigs and branches from your garden shrubbery. That is definitely a plus.

Dryads are nymphs living in symbiosis with a tree, bush or something plant related, maybe even a special place. They are Nature Spirits. As far as I can see they don't take control of the bush, tree or whatever they live with, as opposite to treekin and treeman, but are more shapeshifters. That is why they may be fast enough to even fool a daemonette.
Well at least that is my view of it.

Post by **UpTheWrongTree** » 31 Jul 2005, 18:13

I think that although the forest spirits seem to be pretty good, is there any point in limiting your choices, to the extreme, just so that you don't have to take any Elves. Feel free to shoot me down if I'm wrong because I haven't got the book yet.
I just feel that it doesn't really make sense to do this when there are so many other units to choose from.

Post by **Arthion** » 31 Jul 2005, 19:59

Only fluff. Why do some HE generals create regional lists, limiting themselves even more to specific units? Because the background is sometimes more important than the general army list. Nothing wrong with that.

Post by **Thrask** » 31 Jul 2005, 21:35

Sorry my bad I corrected it was supposed to be "can only take FS".

Post by **Arthion** » 02 Aug 2005, 00:58

Arthion wrote:SNIP
Better not placing a mage on a unicorn or a fighter on a stag, if you want them to stay longer than the first two rounds around. They are on 40mm bases, don't deal much damage and are really vulnerable. They just can't hide anywhere in an unit for protection unless you use 5 or more treekin for it.

About the base, I stand corrected: Unicorn and White Stag are on 50mm bases. I guess they even loose the protection a unit of treekin could have given them.

Andruillius · Post by **Andruillius** » 02 Aug 2005, 02:18

IIRC there was something from GW saying they're really just 3 wound monsters so they go on 40*40, BUT they should be placed on 50*50 as you'll be putting them in Cav units.

Or maybe that's changed.

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Forest Spirits

Forest Spirits