40k second army: Eldar and Tau

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40k second army: Eldar and Tau

Postby LoDark » 25 Nov 2008, 20:23

Right (I seem to start most of my topics with right :roll: ), with my first 40K army almost completed, the Tyranids, and Christmas coming up I think it's high time for me to choose my next project.
The Tyranids were a real case of fluff and models over rules and I still love them, but while I think the rules are great I'd like to move back towards more familiar territory with an army more like my WE and DE from fantasy. For me though, the fluff still comes first so after careful reading I have narrowed the choice down to Tau and Eldar. While I know the Tau rely on shooting and the Eldar are very fast my knowledge doesn't expand past there. Since I've never fought either army (except on one occasion when I fought a beginner's Eldar, but that doesn't count because it was a small force in a sea of Apocalypse sized armies) I don't really know anything about how the armies play above that.

So, if anyone who knows the armies could give me a bit of a summary about how the armies play, major tactics etc. I'd really appreciate the help.
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Re: 40k second army: Eldar and Tau

Postby Kolfrosta » 26 Nov 2008, 03:35

I am not a 40k player so take what I say with a grain of salt. However, my understanding is the armies roughly follow this:

Tau
At the end of the day the Tau are mobile or static fire base armies. They have a few good CC and assault units but most armies have better ones so a lot of Tau generals emphasize their ranged firepower (which is very good). Therefore, you will be like the Asrai in the sense of avoidance and firepower (with less speed but better armor than the Asrai) but you do not have the hard hitting assault units that are available to us. The Tau look is also very Asian "anime-ish" with Crisis Suits ect... so their model range can be a good choice if you are into that.

Eldar
The Eldar are super, super versatile and they are the 40k equivalent of Elves. That mere fluff connection makes them similar to us but they are also similar in the sense that they can dish it out but they can not take it. Did I mention they are super versatile? You can easily construct an army based on a static firebase, mobile firebase, assault force, grav-tanks... Pretty much anything you can think of with them. The biggest drawback to this versatility (besides the general fragile nature of the army) is that their troops can be overspecialized and are only effective for certain situations. Many commanders like this since it requires even more strategy to utilize them well though.

Anyway, if you want an army like elves and you like versatility then the Eldar are definitely the way to go. However, if you want a more durable, more focused force then Tau is a better choice. Hope this helps!
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Re: 40k second army: Eldar and Tau

Postby t12161991 » 26 Nov 2008, 05:20

Tau
Long, powerful ranged weapons. I hate railguns! :mad: Really no close combat to speak of, although Kroot and suits can hold their own if you are lucky. Actually, although you can play a static force, a mobile one consisting of tanks and Devilfish with Fire Warriors is a better competetive choice.

Eldar
Fast, balanced. A "masters" army. Every unit excels at a specific role, but out side of that, not nearly so good. If you can get each unit to do it's job to the fullest, it's almost unbeatable. Excellent "psychically" as well.
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Re: 40k second army: Eldar and Tau

Postby LoDark » 27 Nov 2008, 16:47

Interesting, I'm being pulled towards the Eldar.

I can't find out of the GW site, but are all the Aspect warriors metal figures, plastic or a mixture?
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Your hardest unit should be at the forefront of your attack, supported by other heavy hitters to erupt into the enemy's rear.


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Re: 40k second army: Eldar and Tau

Postby the call of the hunt » 27 Nov 2008, 19:37

Dire avengers are plastic, and guardians, along with the wave serpent, falcon, wraithlord and war walkers. I think the rest are metal.

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Re: 40k second army: Eldar and Tau

Postby Beithir Seun » 27 Nov 2008, 19:45

TCOTH is correct - Dire Avengers are plastic but the other Aspect Warriors are all metal.


I haven't played Tau for a long while but Eldar are my main 40K army. They're very similar to Wood Elves in playstyle - they're fast and manoeuvrable, with very specialised units and excellent capabilities for ranged attacks or close combat. They're also quite fragile and physically weak, relying on their speed and manoeuvrability to avoid the worst enemy attacks.

Tau are very much a shooty army. They have a distinct lack of close combat units and those they do have are good only in comparison to other Tau troops but will usually be overcome by specialised close combat troops of other races. Regardless of whether you go for a static force or a mechanised one you're going to be concentrating on shooting.
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Re: 40k second army: Eldar and Tau

Postby ethsar46 » 27 Nov 2008, 23:37

Id say go with Eldar.

I played Tau for a little while and found them pretty boring. You have to keep them mobile or you'll get caught in CC, and the only thing that wont beat you easily in CC is guardsmen.
Lots of high strength shooting however, battlesuits can be easily outfitted for anti-meq or anti horde aswell. Their Vehicles are good aswell, though not as good as eldar.

Eldar I havent played myself, but I have played against them a good amount. The eldar army is probably one of the most versitile. They have the best non-named psychics with their farseers. While guardians arent great, dire avengers are quite potent, most aspect warriors are useful in their roles, though swooping hawks are fairly useless for their points. They have lots of fast movers with their jet bikes, shining spears, falcons, wave serpents and other tanks aswell.

Both armies suffer from lower toughness and not so great armour saves aswell, though some units may have better AS or T.
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Re: 40k second army: Eldar and Tau

Postby matthew_swifty » 28 Nov 2008, 10:51

My current 40k army is Eldar and at once I did play Tau but the Tau were too much of a firebase army and not enough "go and get 'em".

Tau armies tend to be fairly rigid in their structure but Eldar are oh so very flexible. When you get enough figures for Eldar, your opponents will not be able to judge what your list will be like whilst with the Tau, your opponents are able to gear a list towards them more easily.

Falcons aren't the indestructible force they were in the previous edition but they are still well worth the points and everybody hates them.

In all, Eldar are much more like Elves than the Tau, their consistently low toughness combined with their supreme speed and focussed units make eldar very similar to Wood Elves where you need "synergy" between units to help overcome your opponents. Eldar are also probably a lot more fun to play as :P.

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Re: 40k second army: Eldar and Tau

Postby Coyle_Ravane » 04 Dec 2008, 13:18

While I think a lot of people seem to be putting the Tau down a bit, I agree that the Elder are most like WE in style of play, and I agree with what people have said about them.

I play Tau in 40k, and I play them as a fast, shooty army (think sethayla with fairly heavy armour), and there were 3 reasons I choose Tau over Eldar for this.

Firstly, I always play elves, be it warhammer, dungeons and dragons whatever, if it has elves, that's who i am, and I usually do well with them. After seeing how effective my wood elves are in my hands, some friends told me if I played Eldar, they'd refuse to play me. So I took Tau and built an army that plays almost the same way, and is actually not fragile (makes a change).

Secondly, Eldar don't have enough firepower for me. The Tau have awesome close range firepower (ignore comments about them having longrange firepower, as marines and imperial guard at least can both outshoot Tau), and are second only to the eldar in having the maneuverabillity to deliver that firepower.

Thirdly, I love the image of Tau fire warriors pouring out of a skimmer transport behind a clumsy human tank as it tries to turn, and pouring fire from their high powered rifles into the tanks rear untill it explodes.
Tau are probably the only 40k army whose basic infantry are capable of shooting up tanks! As you can imagine this makes heavy anti-tank weaponry much less of a priority, as a squad of firewarriors jumping out of a devilfish apc, should be able to inflict 2-3 of glancing hits on most tanks from the rear, and stealth suits will do the same or more if one is givena fusion blaster (meltagun).

Tau are actually a lot of fun to play, and can be a deadly army. But then the same can be said of Eldar.
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Re: 40k second army: Eldar and Tau

Postby LoDark » 04 Dec 2008, 17:53

Thanks for all the input guys, it's interesting to know other people's views of these armies.

Anyway, I've been continuing my search, when I came across the Black Templars. "Interesting" I thought, "I wonder what this getting started article will say about them."

http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/conte ... 12&start=1

I don't know about you, but it seems like a pretty all round army from the look of this. :roll:

Anyway, ty GW for being useless. Can anyone tell me anything about them? Are they worth it when compared to the new SM codex? I'm haven't struck the Eldar and Tau off my list, I'm just very curious about eveything. I feel like a kid in a candy shop every time I come round to starting a new army. :D
How to effectively use The Pincer Technique:

Your hardest unit should be at the forefront of your attack, supported by other heavy hitters to erupt into the enemy's rear.


Defenders in Turmoil

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Re: 40k second army: Eldar and Tau

Postby Kolfrosta » 07 Dec 2008, 01:03

I can not comment on the Black Templars except for the fact that they are supposedly more CC oriented than normal Space Marines and... there are a lot of Space Marine armies out there. :roll:

Anyway, I can throw something else on the table though. I was talking with a few friends today that regard Dark Eldar as "da bomb" and closest to the Asrai in playing style. They are ultra fast, have no armor, strong shooting, and really good "shock" CC units. Furthermore, the new Dark Eldar book is supposedly being worked on by the same person that did the Asrai book so chances are... they will be even better. :ninja: If you are in no rush and like the fluff then the Dark Eldar might be a better fit.
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Re: 40k second army: Eldar and Tau

Postby LoDark » 09 Dec 2008, 19:36

The only reason I'm driven away from the Dark Eldar is they seem a hell of a lot like my DE. I think I probably won't go for Black Templars on second thoughts, at least not yet, after javing a look around the Bolter and Chainsword. Being very tempted towards making a Samurai-Style Tau list though.
How to effectively use The Pincer Technique:

Your hardest unit should be at the forefront of your attack, supported by other heavy hitters to erupt into the enemy's rear.


Defenders in Turmoil

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Re: 40k second army: Eldar and Tau

Postby matthew_swifty » 09 Dec 2008, 23:56

LoDark wrote:Being very tempted towards making a Samurai-Style Tau list though.


I'm interested. How will you go about doing that?
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Re: 40k second army: Eldar and Tau

Postby almundis » 10 Dec 2008, 03:52

Honor blades everyware :D
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Re: 40k second army: Eldar and Tau

Postby SirSlamb » 10 Dec 2008, 15:28

I have a quite sizeable tau force, and lately I've been playing what I've dubed "assault tau" heavy on Fire warriors (no fishes). I rush forward a little bit and then focus on delivering lots of S5 shots at one unit using marker lights from Stealth suits and path finders to make them incredibly accurate. I managed to bring down a big Carnifex down in one turn with nothing but pulse fire (about 78 shots hitting on 2's :) ) Also monoplizing on Railheads and a unit of Broadsides. Managed to to get second in a tourny a few weeks ago.
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Re: 40k second army: Eldar and Tau

Postby LoDark » 10 Dec 2008, 17:28

Well, Honour blades everywhere would be a good start. ;)

I could also add pauldrons, which doesn't seem to hard, as found on this model by someone called EXPLODEDman:

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d142/ ... n/FCW2.jpg

I don't know how easy that would be to do to every model though.

An assault Tau army sounds pretty interesting. I'm not particularly thrilled with idea of buying tons of Devilfishes. Don't you find it's not manouverable enough though? Could I have a look at your list?
How to effectively use The Pincer Technique:

Your hardest unit should be at the forefront of your attack, supported by other heavy hitters to erupt into the enemy's rear.


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Re: 40k second army: Eldar and Tau

Postby SirSlamb » 10 Dec 2008, 18:23

One thing to remember is that running exsists now, so even infantry have mobility. You have to move them in stepped movments, move half to where you need them one turn, get shooting out of the squads that stayed put. Run the squads that moved, rinse repeat.

Hear is my standard 2k list:
# Unit Equipment Sub point Total Points
HQ
1 Shas'o R'myr DB Plasma, Fletch, Ccshield generator 160

5 Stealth Suits 120 203
1 -Team Leader Marker light, HW-TL HWBS 53
5 Stealth Suits 120 203
1 -Team Leader Marker light- HW TL HWBS 53

9 Fire Warriors Bonded 115
1 - Shas'Ui
9 Fire Warriors Bonded 115
1 - Shas'Ui
9 Fire Warriors Bonded 115
1 - Shas'Ui
9 Fire Warriors Bonded 115
1 - Shas'Ui
12 Kroot 84 84
10 Kroot 70 94
4 Kroothounds 24

8 Pathfinders 96 181
1 - Devilfish D-Pod 85

1 Hammer head Railgun, D-pod, MT, BC 165
1 Hammer head Railgun, D-pod, MT, BC 165
2 Broadsides A.S.S 160 280
1 Team leader A.S.S, HW Drone Controler, HW TL 90
2x Shield drones 30


97 Total Number Total 1995

Usally Kroot are either objective holders or Flankers, if I had more kroot hounds I would honestly field 12 of them per squad :P. Stealth suits are usally infiltrated forward, providing Broadsides with Marker hits for either Night fight support or better BS. I could honestly run a more effective commander but I like my commander :P
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Re: 40k second army: Eldar and Tau

Postby LoDark » 10 Dec 2008, 22:49

Interesting, I quite like the look of this list. I assume your commander is the Forgeworld Battlesuit model. That is such an awesome model.
How to effectively use The Pincer Technique:

Your hardest unit should be at the forefront of your attack, supported by other heavy hitters to erupt into the enemy's rear.


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Re: 40k second army: Eldar and Tau

Postby SirSlamb » 10 Dec 2008, 23:14

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Re: 40k second army: Eldar and Tau

Postby t12161991 » 11 Dec 2008, 04:42

I hate Railguns. And Hammerheads. And Broadsides. Probably because those are the main causes of my Baneblade's (note the singular. That changes in a few weeks :evil: !) deaths each of the 3 times it has died.


And I really, really, really hate Mantas.
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Re: 40k second army: Eldar and Tau

Postby SirSlamb » 14 Dec 2008, 15:22

t12161991 wrote:And I really, really, really hate Mantas.

WHOA! hold the phone here, you know some one and or played someone that actally owns a manta?
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Re: 40k second army: Eldar and Tau

Postby t12161991 » 14 Dec 2008, 21:09

Played someone... took out all 8 of my tanks in the first turn...
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Re: 40k second army: Eldar and Tau

Postby almundis » 14 Dec 2008, 21:43

Well for a £500 odd quid or whatever it is i would expect at least that much...
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Re: 40k second army: Eldar and Tau

Postby t12161991 » 14 Dec 2008, 22:16

It's 2000 points unupgraded. It killed ~2300 points in 1 turn. The tanks were: 2 Baneblades, 3 Leman Russes, 2 Basilisks, 1 Leman Russ Demolisher.
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Re: 40k second army: Eldar and Tau

Postby matthew_swifty » 15 Dec 2008, 00:16

t12161991 wrote:It's 2000 points unupgraded. It killed ~2300 points in 1 turn. The tanks were: 2 Baneblades, 3 Leman Russes, 2 Basilisks, 1 Leman Russ Demolisher.


Wow thats quite impressive. What sort of armaments does it have? A plethora of drone guided railguns?
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