Tried this, pretty good results

[riverstone]

I don't play with a treeman so I didn't feel too bad about taking the following combo of characters:
Level 3 weaver with scrolls to get me through the first few rounds without taking magical damage and 3 alter nobles. I had the standard alter set up on one who shot off his HoDA in the first round and then charged in unison with the other three (all with GW) into combat after combat. That's 13 strength 6 attacks that almost alway hit on 3's. Since they don't actually make up a unit, they keep their 360 sight radius (I think?) which is useful when looking for something to charge after pursuing. I took Amber Pendant on one just in case I ended up in the enemy's charge arc - I tried to keep him on whatever side I thought a unit may try to charge from. They worked together during most of the game. Only at the end did I split them up to one could go take care of a war machine and the other two combo charged with a unit of WD. This game was fought against combat oriented Dwarves (not shooty ones). Only big issue is lack of combat resolution, but they caused enough causulties to keep from loosing any combats- That's not always sure thing though. Has anyone else tried something like this?

[Tethlis]

I haven't tried it, but it sounds like a good idea. Those three characters, as you mentioned, pack a lot of hurt. It's a major investment of points, and obviously you sacrifice having lots of other hero options, but it would be very dominant against certain armies. I will be interested to hear what other people say.

[Falconrider]

The most i've used is 2 Alters. One was a Lord and the other a hero. It worked very well i had 10 attacks at S6 on the charge which was quite devastating. The Lord had the BoL + AB combo and the Am Brooch. My tactic was to shoot a unit then allow that unit to charge him so i could stand and shoot. The other alter was in position to counter charge on the following turn and break the unit. I do like the 3 alter tactic and think its worth a try.

[matthew_swifty]

Sounds like a good idea. I don't like using a Spellweaver like that because it wastes potential but magic defence is needed unfortunately.

[Ninza]

I'm not sure did I read right, but did you use spellweawer w.scrolls against dwarfs?

[Noxmenno]

I'm not sure did I read right, but did you use spellweawer w.scrolls against dwarfs?

I think most people use their 'all comer' lists when playing normal games.

[Ninza]

Well that explains everything!

[popisdead]

I could see the amber pendant on an alter working against HE fast cav, and Silver Helms (only 3+ save now I believe) and war machines. Flub your rolls you're dead though :P

[riverstone]

Yeah, I didn't know I was playing against Dwarves- just turned out that way. As far as wasted points on the Weaver, I considered taking an Alter Lord and singer, but the extra 50 points for scrolls seemed safer. One well placed spell from an unanticpated bound item could seriously disrupt the battle plan. In reality, I could probably go either way though. BTW, I wouldn't take the Bow of Loren/Bodkin combo in this situation. I feel that, based on the one game I played, it is best (possibly critical) that they work in unison when charging. I think I'll try it a few more times and see if I get similar results. Another bonus I forgot to mention is that they make very small targets for warmachines and have an additional -1 penalty against ranged attacks due to being single models. Because of this, it seems that opponets would tend to leave these guys alone and go for the better odds of hitting a unit of something else. Then again, if they want to try and hit them and leave my WD or WR alone, I'm ok with that too.

[riverstone]

Oooooo....I do hate flubbed rolls. Feels like a punch in the gut.

[Ancelion]

Very interesting. Gonna try this out.

[ArchMagosAlchemys]

I have a battle to fight against Dawi tomorrow. I may try this approach. Even though I face Dawi, should use an all-comers list and will take a lvl4 Spellweaver wih some scrolls. I won't be able to get off much against Dawi, but the Deepwood sphere might work if terrain is favourable.

[riverstone]

If you decide to go with it, let us know how it turns out. I've got a game against TK next week that I can try it with also. Guess what unit they'll be headed for? Yep, I should be able to break through the line and then lots of fun options open up. Warmachines? Maybe... Bone Giant? Possibly.... Oh, where's that Heirophant at? I'll let you all know the outcome.

On a side note, lets assume I charge a lone character with these three guys. They'll all be in base contact, but what happens if my opponet challenges? I'd like to think I could refuse and still attack with my other two (fighting with two is better than one, right?). But, can I refuse if there isn't a back rank to put him in? If not, I better work in AON on one of them.

[ArchMagosAlchemys]

Three characters cannot form a unit, so you cannot refuse the challenge because there is nowhere to hide. These Heroes are unit killers, not character killers.

If you do get in this situation, one Hero fights in the challenge, and if the enemy is not in a unit, the other two Heroes do nothing; they have no one to fight. The can count for outnumbering to help the Combat Result.

[riverstone]

That's what I figured. I didn't think about outnumbering when figuring combat resolution though- that could be important. I think I'll try to avoid this situation though. A highly mobile character (on a dragon for example) would be bad news for these three. I'm glad they have a movement of 9.

[ArchMagosAlchemys]

The three Alters did not work for me today. Two were magiced to death by the end of the second turn and the last one did diedsoon after. He had a spell that could kill me, even in combat. I need to rethink.

[Gropah]

What spell did he nuke you with?

[ArchMagosAlchemys]

The #$%^%&*^^%$ Dawi turned up with two Lvl4 Mages for Hire (Dark Emissaries) which count only as Heroes They get a spell called Fog of Death which hits EVERY enemy unit on the table with d6 S3 hits. Since Alters cannot join other units, they take all the hits themselves. He was casting two of these and the Anvil of Doom every turn. Since there is no to-hit and the attacks are not shooting, my armour save was poor.

[Gropah]

That's just .. out of whack. Got to give him credit though for scoring a respectable minus 32 in comp though...

I believed emissaries (Dark and Light) was permission only?

[WoodHawkDown]

Yikes! The Dark Emissaries count as both a Hero and a Rare though...and the Fog of Death also hits each of his own units on a roll of 1-3 (D6). Did he suffer any casualties?

I must say, this is something that has never occurred to me - We always expect the Dwarfs to have no magic - to have him show up with 2 Level 4 mages had to have been quite the surprise

[ArchMagosAlchemys]

Yes, but his units are T4 and have armour, and a standard that gives a 5+ ward.

For every 8 hits on Glade Guard, he gets 4 wounds and four dead Guard
For every 27 hits he gets on himself, 9 wounds, 5+ armour save, he gets 6 wounds, 5+ ward, four dead Dwarfs

and this happens only half of the time. He lost a few models.

I know of no ruling or FAQ that requires permission for Dark Emissary and neither does my opponent. He expects to use a version of this army in in tournaments this year.

8 levels of magic on two lord level casters AND the Anvil of Doom in the same army makes for a nasty combination.

Yes, he had no Organ Guns, but didn't need them. He had four bolt throwers and two cannon and that was enough.

Minus thirty-two must be close to a record for composition using the Swedish system.

[Ancelion]

Archy but I'm sure you know how seldom and awkward the combination of dwarfs and dark emmissaries is... so I would'nt count this as a usual game, where your alters would have worked much better aggainst dwarfes.

[ArchMagosAlchemys]

There were a lot of 'observers', so I can expect to see more armies with this sort of build, especially if they tool up to fight Asrai. It does not look good.

[WoodHawkDown]

Yea, I didn't really expect he would have taken too many casualties from that spell himself, just curious really.

Potential "fluff" abuse aside though, I have to give that opponent kudos for thinking outside the box - that is a devestating combination, especially against an opponent that might have written an anti-Dwarf list expecting no magic. I know you probably didn't do that, but many would have and it would have been that much more damaging.

You do seem to play with an "intense" gaming group though lol, Dwarfs with a very healthy magic phase, Lizards with Lord Kroak. Ouch.

As for the permission...while I have no documentary evidence to support it, I have always been told that the Albion, Storm of Chaos, etc, needed permission to use. Of course that may just be a local thing. I do know (from water cooler chat with players who have gone to various tournaments) that some of the local tourny's around here don't allow them and that may be the source of that rule for us.

[ArchMagosAlchemys]

Intense is a good word for it. WAACy with a smile .

Yes, my Spellweaver put up a decent fight, by 4DD ans 2 scrolls go only so far. If I had taken another Noble r Highborn for general, I would have lost a lot quicker. Just the possibility of this will give players who face Dawi pause, not that Thorek need that much help.