Tried this, pretty good results

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riverstone
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Re: Tried this, pretty good results

Post by riverstone »

Oooo....that's not good. Hope this idea didn't loose the game for you. You've got me nervous now about my upcoming game agains TK. I understand they can be very magic heavy too- incantantions, bound items and such. I'm gonna try it anyhow though. Hopefully, I can use the army's WW and GE to mess with his spell casters if he goes magic heavy.

I've also been trying to think up different combinations for the three alters. I was considering doing the "standard" setup on one, a Blight of Terrors on another, and a Wraithstone on the last one. I've never played with these items and I'm not sure if enemy units would take the Terror test at -1 if they're more than six inches away when charging. Not to mention, being undead also makes them ITP :confused: . Humm, just thought of that...I think I'll just got with my original list.
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Re: Tried this, pretty good results

Post by ArchMagosAlchemys »

Suck up the casualties, KILL the mages.
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Re: Tried this, pretty good results

Post by mydnight »

From what i remember in some FAQ - unfortunately i cant remember where, maybe direwolf so it's not that vaild - you can't have more than 1 emissary in your army. Fluffwise it doesn't make sense to have 2 anyway; these guys are supposed to be lone wanderers spreading their agenda.

Additionally a lot of tourneys force the choice of emissary and sayer to be a Lord choice, or not allowed at all.
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Re: Tried this, pretty good results

Post by Hyarion »

Truthsayers and Dark Emmissaries are now DoW units, and you can only have one of each DoW unit in any given army. Eg, you can't have two units of Mengil's Manhide Manflayers in an army.

I was unable to find a direct statement confirming this, but the repeated references to '...unique characters...' and such in the .pdf rules seems to be a valid confirmation of this. It might be more explicitly stated in the Lustria book which I don't have access to.
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Re: Tried this, pretty good results

Post by ArchMagosAlchemys »

You can have multiple DoW, like two cannon, or two units of crossbows, you cannot have two RoR, only one Mengil. My opponent is under the impression that Dark Emissaries are DoW, not RoR.
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Re: Tried this, pretty good results

Post by riverstone »

I'm basically clueless to the DoW and RoR units. I need to check this stuff out and see if there is anything that would benefit the WE. These Emissaries would probably destory the WE army if they deal damage to both sides, but something like a cannon doesn't sound too bad...until it misfires. Doesn't sound very woodelfy though does it?
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Re: Tried this, pretty good results

Post by ArchMagosAlchemys »

NO, not very Woodelfy at all!!! Gunpowder is made from MURDERED, DEAD TREES!!

I'm not sure that any Rare is bette than Treeman or Great Eagle.
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Re: Tried this, pretty good results

Post by unicorn »

Hyarion wrote:Truthsayers and Dark Emmissaries are now DoW units, and you can only have one of each DoW unit in any given army. Eg, you can't have two units of Mengil's Manhide Manflayers in an army.

I was unable to find a direct statement confirming this, but the repeated references to '...unique characters...' and such in the .pdf rules seems to be a valid confirmation of this. It might be more explicitly stated in the Lustria book which I don't have access to.
There is nothing mantioned about them in Lustria campaign book, or at least I cannot find it.

The rules for using Emissairies are on us GW page - here: http://us.games-workshop.com/games/warh ... albion.pdf

As you can read, Dark Emissairies are:
1) Dog opf War unit
2) can be heired by DE, Skaven, all Chaos, VC, TK, Dwarfs , Empire, Breton, DoW and OaG armies
3) he uses both rare and hero choice, cost 265 pts
4) Fog of Death hits are randomised as missile hits in units

the rules does not exactly say you can not hire 2 of them, but as you cen read:
If fighting alongside a Dwarf army containing an Anvil of Doom,
make two separate pools of Power dice in your own Magic
phase: one pool to be used with the Anvil (D6+2 dice) and one
to be used by the Emissary (two dice plus four for his Level).
In your opponent’s Magic phase, you can group all your Dispel
dice into a single pool.

From this I think we can calculate that you can use just 1 Emissary at the same time.
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Re: Tried this, pretty good results

Post by unicorn »

Lol, just go throught DoW rules on US GW site and find this list:

http://us.games-workshop.com/games/warh ... of_war.pdf

According to this, Dwarfs can take Emissary as rare+hero choice; while WE can take him as... Only Rare choice..???

Let's go for him, it's an official rule you can :ninja: And next time enjoy all armies with 2 dark emissars :smoke:
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BSB, mounted noble, WD noble, Branchie, Alter, Treeman, 12 WR, 10 WD, 10 GR, 10 WW, 5 Dryads, 5 WhR, 6 Tk, Altar of Khaine
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Treeman, 10 WD, dragon lord, Alter, 9 WhR, 5 GR, DE sin, OK Butcher, Beast heroes x5
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Re: Tried this, pretty good results

Post by ArchMagosAlchemys »

That two pools of dice business refers to 6th ed when the Anvil of Doom worked differently. So it looks like his army was legal.

The fighting is not symmetric. Fog of Death does bad things to unarmoured T3 armies, but not so much to armoured T4 armies and there is the synergistic effect of the Anvil of Doom,being Dwarfs, and having a Gunline. Taking Dark Emissaries would be of no/limited use to me. Besides, I don't think that they are particularly fluffy for WE, especially two of them.
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Re: Tried this, pretty good results

Post by Ancelion »

Somewhere there must be a mistake: The dogs of war-sheet states that we can use Dark Emissaries as a rare choice, the albion rule forbid it. The DoW-doc is from 6. Edition (2004), the one from Albion has no date.

But fluffwise it's wasted time even thinking about using a Dark Emissary. They are the servants of Chaos/demons, and no Asrai would fight together with them, right? Instead we should think about ways to beat this dwarf/2x DE-list. When you look at the stats they are exceptionally weak - only T3 and 3 life points, all they have is a 5+ ward save. Take your hunter's talon and take them down... :angry:
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Re: Tried this, pretty good results

Post by ArchMagosAlchemys »

That would be a good idea, but FoD needs no LOS, so the DEs were back with the Anvil, behind a couple of ranks of Dwarfs.
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Re: Tried this, pretty good results

Post by unicorn »

In your country, you can use unique characters in your battles, right?
Maybe Ariel can work against this? Fog of Death "target" all your units, so you can use her lvl 2 Magic Resistance. Togather with some decent dispell equip, you can prevent emisars from work - and you can make them useless with some luck - as you resist their fog, they must pass Ld and if failed, they loose this spell togather with magic level.
But I am not completly sure, here we cannot use unique characters or DoW on tourneys, so I dont know them too much; and maybe Anvil will be threat against her? But maybe she can hide from anvil in your forist spirits units?
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Re: Tried this, pretty good results

Post by ArchMagosAlchemys »

The ruling is that MR is not used unless an effect attacks a specific unit. I'm not sure if it applies in this case. Ariel is worth a look, thanks for the suggestion.
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Re: Tried this, pretty good results

Post by Ancelion »

Ariel? Sounds to me like fighting sparrows with cannons... :D . I would just boost up my magic defense, try to sorround them and shooting them down/out of units, or use these nice three alters mentioned elsewhere in the forum... they could handle this threat for sure. :evil:
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Re: Tried this, pretty good results

Post by ArchMagosAlchemys »

I'm using a general-purpose list, not a specially tooled anti-Dwarf army. Since the Alters cannot join units, the Fog of War hits them with D6 S3 every turn it goes off, and there is no limitation on units in combat. I'm using a Spellweaver and three Alters. If I get more magic defense, I must have fewer Alters. Barring bad luck, I'm not sure that we have a good solution to this problem. Even the Thebains won't work.
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Re: Tried this, pretty good results

Post by riverstone »

Just for anyone who is following this post, I played with the 3 Alter set up again tonight against TK. My plans fell apart in spetacular fashion, and I ended up spliting up the Alters for seperate tasks. One ended up engaged with a Tomb Scorpion after the HoDA failed to kill it- the scorpion only had one wound left, but it still bested me (and overran into the flank of my WR -it was ugly); another alter chased down the Heirophant and then ran into a unit of archers- this one performed very well for me; and the third became overly occupied (along with my WD) with keeping two units of chariots from collapsing my flank- this worked out OK, but he seemed wasted on the task. I guess it's nice that they can be used with flexibility. I'm not ready to rule this setup out, but I'm also not ready to rule it "in". By the end of the game, there were only 4 TK archers standing, so I guess I can't say it didn't work - it just didn't work the way I expected.
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Re: Tried this, pretty good results

Post by ArchMagosAlchemys »

I would be trying to use them 'together'. If not attacking the same unit, then at least supporting each other.
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Re: Tried this, pretty good results

Post by riverstone »

I agree that it is best to use them together and that was my intent when deploying. But, within the first two rounds, I had them in three seperate combats. I thought one would be enough to polish off the tomb scorpion (I was wrong about this); I couldn't pass up a chance to charge the Heirophant (only need one Alter for this- he would challenge if I charged with two); so I used my third to be sure the chariots were dealt with. In hindsight, I think I deployed on the wrong flank- I was overly worried about them being shot at or magic missled and wanted to keep them behind or in a forest until ready to charge. This led to me being poorly positioned to attack the units I really wanted to use them on. I'm going to play more carefully with them next time - I will try them again.
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Re: Tried this, pretty good results

Post by YourMumRang »

I often use 2 Alters. I equip them as such:

- Alter w/GW - Shield - Briarsheath - HoDA
- Alter w/ GW - Shield - Light Armour - Helm of the Hunt - Annoyance of Netlings

Then the third one would probably have Blight of Terrors.
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Re: Tried this, pretty good results

Post by riverstone »

The three Alters I play with currently are:

-AON, HOTH, GW, Shield, LA
-HOD, Briarsheath, Shield, GW
-Glamourweave, E. Shield, LA, GW
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Re: Tried this, pretty good results

Post by Anardakil »

Dont ppl think three alters are cheesy? o.o
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Re: Tried this, pretty good results

Post by Gropah »

Good question, do they?

I don't, because it's a lot of points going into them and it potentially weakens magic defense a lot. Also, magic missiles (or ASF ;)) make short work of Alters...
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Re: Tried this, pretty good results

Post by matthew_swifty »

I don't think so, for similar reasons to Gropah, sure they can mince units apart together, but they die if they get hit back and at roughly 150pts a piece, thats almost a 1/4 of your points at 2000 pts.
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Re: Tried this, pretty good results

Post by Anardakil »

Yeah I suppose.

Kinda like the Strigoi flying circus of doom ;P but more :ninja:
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