Rare choice..?

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unicorn
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Rare choice..?

Post by unicorn »

Since there is just a Core unit artcile on LEAF and I cannot find anything about this here around, I will ask this way.

What are Asrai rare choices good for? How to use them with efficiency, for what purposes and in what kind of armies? What are they weaknesses and their strong points?

Thanx
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Re: Rare choice..?

Post by ArchMagosAlchemys »

All three Rare choices have a place in an Asrai army.

The Treeman is considered 'never leave home without one' by some players. It is a very versatile foot dragon that enhances the entire Asrai army but its threat value. I contributes to every phase of the game; movement, shooting, combat, psychology, and magic.

The Great Eagle is a fine warmachine hunter and can hunt mages too. It is a useful support unt that can add extra punch to almost any attack. If you have 50 points and a spare Rare slot it is a no-brainer if it fits with your theme.

Waywatchers are expensive and fragile, but their close-combat ability comes as a nasty surprise to many light troops and warmachines. Their effect is mostly on the mind of the opponent where they will not want to expose themselves to lethal shot.
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Re: Rare choice..?

Post by Hyarion »

Well, I suppose we'll have to prod Lord Voldemorten to finish his LEAF article then. In the meantime....

The Treeman: Able to contribute to all phases of the game, he is a very versatile choice and can be thought of as a slow dragon (hmmm conversion possibilities abound... :sexy: ) with a ward save. His stubborn ability, T6, 3+ armor save, 6 wounds, ITP, and 5+ FS ward save all combine to mean that the Treeman is as close to the perfect anvil as you can find in the Wood Elf army list. He's cheaper on his own than a large sized block of Eternal Guard with a Noble/BSB to make them stubborn which can quickly run 350pts or more. The Treeman has great offensive use as well, with 5 WS 5 S6 attacks he can punch through most armor with relative ease, magical attacks from being a forest spirit mean he is ideal for taking down various daemons (if he doesn't get charged and die first). Strangleroots is a fantastic shooting attack which enables the Treeman to march close to the opponent (if he isn't march blocked, or doesn't have LOS to charge) and unleash up to 10 S4 attacks (S5 if the target is partially/wholly within a forest) which can be great for taking out enemy scouts on the first turn or even to taunt an enemy into charging the Treeman. He fits into most (if not all) WE armies and can serve as a great focus for enemy attention while your Wardancers/Dryads/Alter Noble/Wild Riders pass relatively unmolested; the Treeman's defensive strengths mean that he can survive almost anything thrown at him. The Treeman has an additional effect, enemies tend to go overboard on killing this monster (and rightly so) but it can leave the opponent army open to a bit of misdirection allowing you to get flank charges and rear charges on your enemy's units.

With a bound Treesing at his disposal, the Treeman is even able to contribute to the magic phase and can be instrumental in forcing your opponent to use dispel dice.

The Treeman, for all his strengths, has an Initiative value of 2 and can easily be taken down by the spell Pit of Shades which has a 24" range, so make sure you keep some dispel dice in reserve if your opponent rolls this spell (Pit of Shades also requires LOS but since the Treeman is a large target, this isn't terribly difficult). Various spells from the Lore of Metal which operate on armor save can also pose a threat to the Treeman. Flaming Sword of Rhuin can also really ruin your day if used properly. Additionally, the Treeman is very vulnerable to being beaten by static combat res, Stubborn Ld 8 (Ld 9 for an Ancient) is very good, but it is still quite fail-able so a BSB can make sure that it takes a lot more to make him run. Dwarven warmachines with the magical rune of fire/burning also take a Treeman down easily.

If you aren't using your Lord slot, then the 40pt upgrade to a Treeman Ancient is a bargain. It means the Treeman has a boost to his Ld making his Stubborn ability even more meaningful, and the ability to take Spites (one of the most useful spites, Cluster of Radiants, can only be taken by a Branchwraith or Treeman Ancient) can greatly augment his powers beyond their already impressive state.

If you take a Treeman in your army make sure you take a fast unit of Wild Riders, or as a second option, a unit of Wardancers (Dryads/Treekin would be a good third option)so that you can lure your opponent into a charge, hold him there with the Treeman, and then execute a devastating flank charge with a killy unit.

There's the rundown on the Treeman, I need to be off for the moment, but I'll come back later and do a rundown on the other two Rare choices available to an Asrai general. In the meantime, a great article for further reading can be found on the LEAF forum.
Last edited by Hyarion on 20 Oct 2007, 03:04, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Rare choice..?

Post by Tethlis »

unicorn wrote:Since there is just a Core unit artcile on LEAF and I cannot find anything about this here around, I will ask this way.

What are Asrai rare choices good for? How to use them with efficiency, for what purposes and in what kind of armies? What are they weaknesses and their strong points?

Thanx
The LEAF has an article on Treemen. Also, all three Rare choices are frequently discussed, and there are a lot of old threads dealing with different aspects of them. Consider using the Search feature to track some of them down.
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Re: Rare choice..?

Post by Mist Walker »

Hyarion wrote:a large sized block of Eternal Guard with a Noble/BSB to make them stubborn which can quickly run 350pts
Only 350! I don't like to think about how much mine costs
Hyarion wrote:the spell Pit of Shades which has no range
I'm pretty sure it's 24"

I usually use my treeman but waywatchers are good too depending on opponent
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Re: Rare choice..?

Post by Hyarion »

It's quite possible that there is a range on Pit of Shades, I wrote my post in a hurry and without the benefit of my BRB. If someone cares to look it up, I'll gladly edit my post.
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Re: Rare choice..?

Post by ArchMagosAlchemys »

24" range and LoS required.
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Re: Rare choice..?

Post by Hyarion »

Thanks for the info. Edited.
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Re: Rare choice..?

Post by Noxmenno »

I consider waywatchers too expensive for what they do and I don't like having trees in my army, so I always use two great eagles :)
However, in my opinion the treeman is the second best unit available to the woodies (dryads being the best, by far). The strongest lists include a normal treeman, an ancient with the netlings and a BSB to keep them sticking around. Add to that three or four units of 8 dryads and you'll probably win against anything. The very few games I've played using such an army were a walk over.

On the other hand, the great eagles offer some very nice options besides being able to hunt war machines and mages. They are very effective in redirecting enemy units.
Just put an eagle right in front of an enemy unit. That unit now has two choices: Either try to move around the eagle, which will take that unit out of the game for one or two turns, or charge the eagle. When you chose to hold as a charge reaction the enemy unit has to align to the eagle, so in effect you get to determine which way that unit will be facing. This can either take that unit out of the game for one or two turns or set it up for a nice counter charge.
Alternatively you can flee as a charge response causing the enemy unit to fail its charge most of the time. However, you can pull cavalry units out of their battle lines by placing the eagle so close to it that the cavalry unit will catch the eagle even if it flees, thus causing the cavalry to move its full charge move forwards. If you set up your other units correctly you can now charge the enemy cavalry with your own heavy hitting stuff :)
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Re: Rare choice..?

Post by Alvanda Starslinger »

Hmmm well explained ^

Waywatchers are indeed pretty expensive but a unit of 6 aint anymore expensive then a unit of say 6 GRs without command and WWs can do alot more.
Thier ability to be deployed out of sight with no minimuim range of the enemy can be really nasty for disrupting an opoements plans and redirecting the movement of some of his units early on.
The Lethal Shot ability isnt gauranteed to take out a character with a decent ward save but from experience I allways have my WWs on Assasination orders,mostly scouting for Mages and if at all possible that one off chance they get get a Lethal Shot on an army general in the first turn(its happend enough times for me to be slightly optimistic).
Thier camouflage makes them usefull for trading fire with enemy units too when thier in some wood and in the right placement(BS 5 with a minus 2-3 Vs enemy return fire makes quite a big difference).
Two attacks each can be very usefull for clearing out enemy infiltrators and wiping warmachine crews,in desperate situations a rear charge from these guys has helped in prolonged combats.
Just a brilliant unit for disruption,march blocking and redirection of enemy units.Thier assasination ability is enough as someone mentioned above,a nice deternece for opoements as they sometimes get a bit wary of that lethal shot and will keep thier characters out of harms way.

As for a Treeman,well I kinda see them as a slow moving character and a big monster as with only 5 attacks they cant dish out tht much damage but they are Tough and within a generals leadership,unlikely to run away and will definitely hold stuff up.
They generally do thier job for me so I more often then not take them.Ive seen Treeman give alot of grief to an opoement during the course of a game.

Great Eagles are great value for points but the single Rare choice seems a bit hefty for one eagle(a 2 Eagle for 1 Rare slot would have been nice).I think people have already explained everything I think about Great Eagles.
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Re: Rare choice..?

Post by Elensar of Elithis »

Yesterday I played against waywatchers... I charged them with my noble on eagle. 5 shots, short range, SandS. 3 hits, two are randomised on the eagle and don't wound, one hits the noble... And he rolls a killing blow :eek:

Now luckily, I had a 6+ ward save... And guess what, the dice where in my favor :roll: Anyway, even though the killing blow doesn't happen very often, it will still scare the opponent...
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