Wardancers: What US, and are they good enough on their own?

[popisdead]

My 1000 pt list has 7 w/ full command and a noble, or just 8 with full command. I never take less than 8 and I almost never more.

They run through the trees and I save at least 1-2 dispel dice or a scroll to keep them from getting nuked; remember they have magic res (1) which most people forget first time they try to nuke them. Anything 2D6 S4 will utterly destroy the unit so that's what you have to worry about, most shooting will hit on 6's first turn and wound on 4's. So you are correct in thinking they are fragile. But then T3 no armour,.. what in the WE list isn't except Treekin and a Treeman. Even dryads can get nuked (no save).

I'm trying to ditch the noble to get a great eagle in but it's a challenge when units cost 120+ pts and everything is already min'd.

8 hitting combat will give you 25 S4 attacks (most things are wide enough for this). I cannot stress how cool it is to get Call of the Hunt off on them too.

The reason for the noble is to get Resplendence of Luminescents when facing Unead. Or you could give him annoyance and challenge stuff but likely you need to stay in combat two turns for that to really be effective( take +1A first turn, then KB second, and hopefully by then the enemy hero is dead and the unit is dead too).

[Erenion]

Maybe I'm not as inexperienced player as you think. The guy that thaught me to play 5 years ago thaught me everything he knew about using the battlefield, and he knows his thing, so when I play I try to use maximum from stones and villages to woods and rivers on the table, and when 5 out of 8 of my units skirmish, and 4 out of 8 scout... well, you got to be pretty darn fast or ethereal to catch me, and even than you face a LOT of arrows coming from all directions, and you can't march.
I don't know, call me crazy, but it works for me.

[Tethlis]

I think there may be translation issues at work here. Your ability as a player isn't being questioned, Erenion. There's simply a question of how and why you charge Wardancers into the flank. There isn't much reason for it, and it takes more movement than a charge to the front. Every Wood Elf player with talent knows that we need to break our opponent on the charge, so your point there is well taken. I don't understand how competitive Wardancers can be on their own, without fast cavalry to negate ranks. Even against the most humble of opponents, a charge from any direction with only Wardancers means you'll be hard pressed to win a decisive combat.

[Beithir Seun]

wardancers are a bit of a double-edged sword...they hit like hell most of the time but EVERYTHING relies on them killing the front rank and breaking on the charge because they're way too fragile to sustain many attacks back

thats why combined charges are so important but if you pick the right targets then wardancers can do it all by themselves

i personally would take 8 with full command, regardless of whether they have a noble or highborn with them. if you don't take a character then it just changes their role from main combat unit to support unit

however the more attacks you have, the better off you are so if i had points spare i'd chuck a noble in with them just to help out...

[ihatecoldweather]

@Erenion - How on earth do you always flank and rear with wardancers especially now as they are marchblocked? Yes, i know it's possible, but against a skilled opponent it's a bit more difficult as the opponent can easily prevent this by just reforming.

Also, does the +1 CR really matter that much, especially if the wardancers could have one less model in btb contact on the flank? Aainst the things that wardancers can beat by themselves (light infantry, skirmishers, fast cavalry, shooters, etc.), it usually doesn't matter wether they flank or front. And with heavier opponents you usually want to combo charge with fast cavalry to negate ranks anyway.

Also, i really don't understand those who want more than 7 models or full command. Any more than 7 is a waste of points cause 7 is the maximum in btb contact and you shouldn't be taking casualties if you screen them properly. A champion is simply too expensive for a single attack; it's just not worth 14 points. As for musicians, if you are combo charging with fast cavalry anyway, the musician on the wardancers is unneccesary cause it makes much more sense to give the musicians to wild riders (cause it's free) or glade riders (cause they can flee) and save points on the WDs. Wouldn't it be better to save those points for other stuff?

[Tethlis]

Agreed with ihatecoldweather. I do feel that if you're only fielding a single Wardancer unit, then 8 is an excellent number as it allows a combat loss or two without significant reduction in effectiveness. Otherwise, a vanilla unit with absolutely no command and 7 models is a great choice.

[Erenion]

Well, I was just saying what happened so far in my experience, because most people view wardancers as the most dangerous unit I field, and try to kill it, of course.
So I place them in a wood, or behind a hill, and go arond it... I mean, how fast can be a cavalry unit (eg. Knight's of the realm of 12) that has to veil and can't march because my unit of scouts blocks them.
Then, my dancers go round the hill, and crash into their backs. They could of course be helped by magic, but that's not necesary, because I don't even need to charge them at all...
I dozed of again, what I'm saying is, that in my experience so far Wardancers turned to be my second most valuble unit, because when they get in CC they kick a*s, and what I'm trying to say is that I use them to give my opponent a terrible headache , and that's why I manouvre them and charge only when I feel they'll cause max damage, and that would, of course be in rear or flank.