Are Glade Guard a must have?

Post by **zander** » 30 Oct 2006, 00:40

I am building a completely offencive list a cant seem to find the points for Glade Guard. Is it a bad choide to leave them out?

Post by **Stormfox** » 30 Oct 2006, 01:05

Definitely not. Almost no unit is indispensable, but the GG actually rank fairly low on my priority list of things to take. I usually only field them if I feel like it or have some points to fill and do not need yet another unit of Dryads or fast cavalry.

Post by **Jean Marcel l'Impéteux** » 30 Oct 2006, 01:52

I haven't been playing Wood Elves for very long, but I can say that despite their armourless wardrobe, I like using them.. just be sure to keep them in some cover to escape the enemy from getting free victory points.

My idea of using them would include using them to shoot down war machine crews (if I can get lucky enough to hit them) and make some units panic (hard against dwarfs though, I know :P)

But I personally don't see them as a must have, they can easily be left at home for something better like dryads or glade riders, or if it's a 2000 pt army led by a highborn, eternal guard!

Post by **Prince of Arnheim** » 30 Oct 2006, 02:00

I think they should be taken depending on the theme of your army. I play a rather bestial Wild Hunt force so I find that the GG are simply too squishy for my army. They just don't fit in anywhere. k

Post by **Falconrider** » 30 Oct 2006, 04:57

I feel they are very important and take at least 1 unit of 10. Shooting is one of the best ways to take out enemy fast cav and most of all prevents your opp from putting units wherever he likes on the field.

Post by **Daith11** » 30 Oct 2006, 05:18

for me they're a must have in 3k i run four units of 10.

Post by **Foxtale** » 30 Oct 2006, 09:49

Though they are expensive, and Dryads are undoubtedly better in the long run, they are the best core archers in the game, excepting perhaps Tomb Kings massed fire. I think they're useful and I always play 2x10.

Post by **YourMumRang** » 30 Oct 2006, 11:17

I also like 2 x 10 GG. Where I play people don't see archers very often so tend to pay undue attention to my GG and thus ignoring those WR bearing down their flanks.

Post by **Ithildir Hawk-eye** » 30 Oct 2006, 11:35

In an offensive list it is often quite hard to find the points and even a role for the Glade Guard to play in the grand scheme of things.

They are usually best left for balanced or defensive armies, most likely games less than 3000 points, in which i personally find one unit of 21 a great thing.

Post by **Foxtale** » 30 Oct 2006, 11:46

But they can move and shoot with no penalty, so they have a great role in an offensive army. It only takes one arrow to knock off a model and thus a rank bonus from a unit. They make the difference between 25% or less in combats. With concentrated fire they can disrupt your opponent's counter attack. They can run forwards, shooting all the while, then backpedal whilst shooting.

Post by **YourMumRang** » 30 Oct 2006, 11:59

I also agree that in an offensive army they work very well. Advancing on the enemy and closing for those S4 shots is VERY aggressive. Thats how I use them and they intimidate the enemy to no end.

They can then move back 2.5 inches and get another round of S4 shots in if you're lucky.

However, when your aggressive CC army is in combat they may not have targets to shoot at but can always be used to set up crossfires. That being said we don't have that enemy units in our armies so often they might have something to shoot at after all.

Post by **Tethlis** » 30 Oct 2006, 19:27

This issue is debated to a large degree. On one hand, we have players who advocate the fluffiness and tactical utility of Glade Guard. On the other hand, we have players who despise the fragility and lack of mobility. I am presently in the former camp, though I appreciate the points made by the latter. It certainly isn't the end of the world if you don't take Glade Guard, and many players would argue that the most "competitive" lists don't include them.

Post by **ihatecoldweather** » 31 Oct 2006, 01:08

are GG a must have? No, not really.

In many of the more competitive armies, they are not really seen that often. Especially in offensive armies, because GG are just left behind and have trouble getting into close range (this is especially true when the rest of your units are in CC, thus preventing shooting). The thing is that, the GG are just not mobile enough to make full advantage of their GG long bows or no move and shoot penalty to be worth it in offensive lists. Even though their movement characteristic isn't that bad (5), when you incorperate the amount of movement that is consumed when attempting to wheel a 10-12 wide GG unit, or the amount of movement consumed when charging formation between 1 and 2 ranks (as you move on or off a hill or prepare for a charge), the GG simply are not manouvreable enough for the no move and shoot penalty to be relevant or to be in short range for GG long bows. And if GG cannot get in close range then they are no better than HE archers (and we know how much they suck).

Post by **Tethlis** » 31 Oct 2006, 08:16

The points that ihatecoldweather brings up have been debated in another topic. I suggest using the search feature to try and track that down, as it might be useful for this discussion.

Post by **P§H¥C** » 31 Oct 2006, 08:20

I have not played a lot of games till date with the WE...., and I was sceptical about the use of a str.3 bow, and generally they only hit on a 4+.
but after playing them for a while I realized that they make excellent targets for enemy magic, aswell as for opponents to charge... I have also found that they can really do some damage, but their biggest use for a WE army is that they take the focus of your real usefull(powerfull) and expensive units, and if the opponent opts not to go for them, they will punish him with shots....

In a quick summery, they are an excelent diversion and they CAN do some damage.... on long or short range....

I think what makes them good according to me: is that if your opponent focusses on them, thats fine, your expensive dudes live, but if he ignores the GG, they will punish him..... and they force your opponent to makes discisions that he doesn't want to make....

So, are GG a must.... NO, nothing ever is ..... tutut_bad

But from my experience I can sum them up in 1 word ..... "NICE"

That's my 2 cents.....

Post by **Joey_Boy** » 31 Oct 2006, 12:42

well, nothing is really a must. But will they enhance your army and give you a better overall list with more options? I'd say yes.

In a CC oriented list you really need something to brng the enamy to you. Some shooting, magic or whatnot can do this. Also in a WE army where you are hiding your units or just keeping out of charge arches with your cav a unit or two of glade guards will give your opponent something to focus on. They will commint units to killing them so they can get some points out of you more often then not, drawing there battle line apart.
And if your suporting them with combat counter charges you can also very often stand at short range and shoot with s4 and your opponent will not charge you for the fear of a flee-counter charge.

The WE army needs units that can flee and units that can prove a distraction. This is a game of suport units and if your alcking in them you'll more often loose then not if your gooing up against someone half compitent.

/Johan R

Post by **Wevoka** » 31 Oct 2006, 17:04

I tend to field at least a unit of 10 no matter what, without them I lose a lot of tactical choices.. and as was said previously, the aggressive S4 shots at close range, which tends to be helpful after/immediately before combat is engaged (after being, when one unit was in combat, and is now out and therefor a legal target again.. sadly WE are not skaven).

Wevoka

Post by **Quercia dei Eternita** » 31 Oct 2006, 19:17

zander wrote:I am building a completely offencive list a cant seem to find the points for Glade Guard. Is it a bad choide to leave them out?

Well back in the old days units 5 of archers could be taken, which was viable. Especially if you had like 30-35 arrows flying per round. This was necessary to lure the enemy to your lines as much as you please. It was then up to you to ambush them with your fighty units.

I'm not sure if they are a must have now. They have to be at least unit size 10, Dryads are now Core and who needs GG in a offensive army?

This doesn't fit. I'd leave them out. Just take Dryads for the hitting and Glade Riders for swift, offensive attacks like you plan to.

Just a reminder: back in the old days, Dryads costed 20 pts per model and were Special. :P Hence we took GG too. haha

Cheers,
-Q

Post by **Wolf Fang** » 31 Oct 2006, 19:33

Oh, I've found some use for them and I even play an offensive list.
I generally take 10 per 1000 points and haven't regretted taking them once.
The main problem for my list (27 wardancers and a unit of Treekin) is magic. So if I can take out the enemy wizards or shooting early on in the game, I find that my units are a lot more intact when they hit the enemy.

(In my last game, one unit of 10 took our a HE mage, which had Pure of Heart and was also the general. They killed thrice their points value, on top of killing 6 Shadow Warriors and preventing the mage from killing my treekin, wardancers, dryads and Glade Riders. Not bad condidering it was a 1000 points battle.

)

So, no, they are not a must, but are a great addition to any army. There's always a role for them.

Wolfie

Post by **NightMoor** » 31 Oct 2006, 21:03

I have never regretted taking a 10-strong unit in every single one of my 2000pt games. GG are a staple unit that gives me flexibility in dealing with things like warmachine crews, light cavalry and stray characters from a long range. At short range I have even shot down heavy cavalry, stood-and-shot for more kills and often even survived the first round of combat due to outnumber+high ground+rank (and sometimes+standard).

Sure, you don't *need* GG, it's just a good idea to have some around. Feel free to experiment without them.

Post by **Tethlis** » 31 Oct 2006, 21:56

P§H¥C wrote: In a quick summery, they are an excelent diversion and they CAN do some damage.... on long or short range....

Agreed. Many players are concerned about the slow speed and vulnerability of Glade Guard, but attention that your opponent focuses on them allows more of your close combat units to make it into the fight. Works for me.

Post by **Wevoka** » 31 Oct 2006, 23:18

I think that worrying overmuch about the points of a unit of GG is mistaken. Generally when I play either my GG or my GR destroyed. but they contribute a lot overall in allowing me to control the battlefield and the movement (either through suicide charging a unit, or S4 shots that my opponent cant ignore). I'd suggest that you consider if their survivability is absolutely important more than simply beneficial (without disrespecting points denial)

Wevoka

Post by **Gada Mazaha** » 01 Nov 2006, 05:09

I always take at least one unit. 2 if 1500 points or greater, generally. It's worth the nice extra missile fire that makes Wood Elves so renown for their bow fire. Also, I rarely have opponents shoot at them or waste fire on them, unless they're the only unit in sight that turn. They seem to consider them a "much lesser threat" than most of the other units in my army, and they have all paid the price of determined Glade Guard hiding on the edge of a wood, pummeling unprotected squads and squads that have just come from a round of close combat and are weakened.

~ Gada

Post by **ihatecoldweather** » 05 Nov 2006, 07:03

I never really understood the point that people make about GG being great at diversion tactics and how it's a good idea to give your opponent something to go for. I mean if you didn't take GG your opponent would have nothing to go for, as all other asrai units (with the exception of TK and EG) are fully able to outmanouvre the enemy and avoid unfavorable combats (GR, TM, dryads, WD, WR, eagles, scouts, WW, etc. are all more manouvreable than GG).

Personally, i think the fact that GG are the WE's most static unit is a disadvantage rather than an advantage. Usually, the GG are the easiest VP for the enemy (and 120 VP isn't exactly sacraficial) and to avoid the unit being wiped out, many times you need to send some units to protect them that could be going on the offense. How is it an advantage to give your opponent something to go for? Wouldn't it be a disadvantage and wouldn't it be better to give your opponent nothing to go for at all? Please enlighten me!

Also, i don't really think that GG are all that neccesary for shooting. If you have a few GR units (who hit on 3+'s as opposed to 4+'s), Treemen and the hail of doom arrow alter, that's usually enough shooting to take out most light threats. Personally, i'm starting to doubt whether GG are all that great, especially as most competitive WE lists are offensive as opposed to defensive!

Post by **StraightCurve** » 05 Nov 2006, 10:03

I'll join the pro GG group.
Ok normally we WE players win by outmaneuvering our enemy. This is where the game is won.
I do all i can to get my Light cav into the sides and rear. The most difficult to counter are hostile light cav. Thats where the use of GG comes in, in my eyes. To bust the way free for the light cav to get into place.
So directly you could say the GGs dont really shoot out their cost, no. But indirectly they have won many games for me.

I like to play them agressively though.
Get into the ST4 zone as fast as possible, best in cover of some trees.

It always depends though who you are playing.
But in tournaments when you dont really know who you are going to meet i will always take them

2x10 do the very best job of what i have experianced

Asrai.org

Are Glade Guard a must have?

Are Glade Guard a must have?

...

GG

Re: Are Glade Guard a must have?

GG