Returning to Warhammer, hoping for a little help.

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Coyle_Ravane
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Armies I play: Wood Elves, Tau, Imperial guard (Tau auxilleries)
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Returning to Warhammer, hoping for a little help.

Post by Coyle_Ravane »

Hi there guys,

Some of you may remember me from a few years ago, but I left warhammer and subsequently thus site, not long after 8th edition came in. Having returned to 40k just in time to dust off my Tau before they got their new release last year, I'm now hoping to do the same with mybeloved Asrai.

Before 8th ed, my tactics with the asrai revolved around using mobility and msu to pull combo charges on larger enemy blocks. In 8th, the steadfast rule, and the loss of rank-breaking from flank/rear charges, both helped render my playstyle invalid. I refuse to use a different army, but I want battles determined by my ability to pull off tricky multiple-charges and so on, not my ability to deliver massed firepower from 15" while avoiding combat (after all, I already have Tau for that :smirk: ).

I have just picked up a 2nd hand rulebook, and I'm hoping you guys can help me with something. What styles if play can WE pull off in 8th? I can't see WE making much of a gunline, EG and TK could probably do an ok version of standard infantry blocks, but all I can really see working is extreme guerrilla shooting based strategies.
Minty wrote:...if you've been killed by a Wood Elf it's nothing personal, but Charles Darwin is smiling with approval.
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WizzyWarlock
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Re: Returning to Warhammer, hoping for a little help.

Post by WizzyWarlock »

I've played a variety of styles. At the moment (and at a tournament next week) I'm playing a list with 30 Glade Riders, 20 Wild Riders and a Lord on Dragon, which is doing surprisingly well. There's the monster mash with 3 Treemen and a bunch of Treekin, the 'gunline' with 90-odd Glade Guard, the MSU style still works as hordes aren't as prevalent as they used to be.. plenty of different styles really.
"I don't know the meaning of the word "surrender". I mean, I know it, I'm not dumb... just not in this context." - The Tick
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frogboy
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Re: Returning to Warhammer, hoping for a little help.

Post by frogboy »

Heres a good place to start...

http://www.asrai.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=25763

Other than that try searching for some old 8th edition threads when it was new, there are several builds though so don't get disheartened, mainly they involve multiple charges and sneaky underhand "tactics" . Good luck oh and welcome back

Cheers,
Frogboy
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Coyle_Ravane
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Location: Maidstone, Kent, England

Re: Returning to Warhammer, hoping for a little help.

Post by Coyle_Ravane »

How would you aim to win a multiple charge now then?

I know I used to aim for glade riders or wild riders in the flank or rear for standard, a rank, flank or rear bonus and negating my opponents ranks, wardancers or dryads in the front for wounds, end with total combat res at least 5 or 6 higher than my opponent, or win with outnumbering fear causers, enemy flees.

Now it seems the enemy is likely to be steadfast, and I can't remove the rank bonus, so I'll end up getting ground down in an extended fight.

Is there some trick I'm missing?
Also, how has the overall meta changed? When 8th first came out, it seemed like hordes and deathstars where going to be kings, has this turned out not to be the case?
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Billthesurly
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Re: Returning to Warhammer, hoping for a little help.

Post by Billthesurly »

Welcome back Coyle. No, you are missing nothing. The style of play you (and I) used back in the day is not really going to cut it in 8th ed. You will pretty much have to shoot up your opponent and/or hit him with something big - a TM, Tk or a block of EG or WR to cause the wounds you need to overcome his ranks and steadfast. I pretty much try to soften up with shooting and then hit an enemy hard enough with the above mentioned heavy hitters to make them run or overwhelm to a front corner and flank where I can grind better than my enemy with him unable to reform. I just plain avoid big, tough, ranked-up units where ever possible.
So it's no longer the BRB, now it's the DERB. (Digital Edition Rule Book) I am all in for 9th Age.
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WizzyWarlock
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Re: Returning to Warhammer, hoping for a little help.

Post by WizzyWarlock »

Coyle_Ravane wrote:How would you aim to win a multiple charge now then?

I know I used to aim for glade riders or wild riders in the flank or rear for standard, a rank, flank or rear bonus and negating my opponents ranks, wardancers or dryads in the front for wounds, end with total combat res at least 5 or 6 higher than my opponent, or win with outnumbering fear causers, enemy flees.

Now it seems the enemy is likely to be steadfast, and I can't remove the rank bonus, so I'll end up getting ground down in an extended fight.

Is there some trick I'm missing?
Also, how has the overall meta changed? When 8th first came out, it seemed like hordes and deathstars where going to be kings, has this turned out not to be the case?
That's what your Glade Guard are for - cut the units down to a more manageable size before diving in. With MSU I'd heavily recommend a Level 4 Beasts and a few characters, turning the Dryads into S5/T5 and giving the characters the +3S/+3A buff, both of which can make a nice hole in the enemy ranks. I wouldn't really recommend charging Glade Riders into anything, unless it's a small chaff unit, use the Wild Riders instead which can also be buffed nicely for a S6/T4 on the charge. It relies on magic a bit more than I'm happy with, but it's still doable.
"I don't know the meaning of the word "surrender". I mean, I know it, I'm not dumb... just not in this context." - The Tick
Drstrangelove
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Re: Returning to Warhammer, hoping for a little help.

Post by Drstrangelove »

My advice in 8th is KILL THE BSB.
Steadfast on leadership 8-9 is not nearly as reliable as people perceive it to be UNLESS you are going to reroll it if you fail.

Also steadfast is not as big a deal as you would think due t the meta: large infantry blocks with 4+ ranks are unusual thanks mainly to monsterous cavalry (and to a less extent monsters and other big stuff), which can reliably tear up 10-15 infantry models a turn whilst taking few casualties back (treekin and treemen are also decent at this, of note).
So mostly your seeing blocks of 20-25 (ESP with WoC, HE, DE, LM). These aren't a problem to break on multi charge.

The only things that you might see is the savage orc bigun star (but it's perfectly acceptable to avoid this), dwarf blocks and Empire State troops (but seriously, they die like flies).
Also the big unit killer spells go a long way towards discouraging big units. We have access to one of the best in The Dwellers Below. Even against unfavourable targets like orcs it will kill 1/3 of them instantly, and as characters get no LOS they are not safe either.


In summary: panic less about steadfast. Panic more about +1 armour saves.
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