Scouts..

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Wargaming93
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Scouts..

Post by Wargaming93 »

Hello everyone!

Just a question, there may be a thread on it but I'm yet to see!

Question is what is everyone's thoughts on the glade guard scouts and their effectiveness in the current edition? I used a unit of 10 of them in my first battle and they weren't of much use to be honest...

Guessing they could be used as war machine hunters but a but expensive for that!
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Shay
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Re: Scouts..

Post by Shay »

Well... They do have their uses, it's just that they are not that many :)

Yes, they can hunt warmachines, but as you said, they are a bit on the expensive side for that (and not very good at it either, really...).

I use them sometimes, and can see three reasons to do so:

- Comp. Some comp-packs lets you pick hard units if you also squeeze in a few soft ones (for example, swedish comp).
- As redirectors. 5 of them as an extra eagle (just much worse of course).
- a big(ger) unit that just runs away, stays away etc. in extreme avoidance-lists.

I've also heard people use them as bunkers for mages and/or BSB's, but I don't think I would myself. If you want a skirmisher bunker Wardancers is the way to go.
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RonRJW
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Re: Scouts..

Post by RonRJW »

It is a unique ability to be able field scouts,not many armies can. I have used them as a mage bunker with some success and to "psych out" your opponent by deploying in or near their deployment zone. Good luck and have fun. :D
Wargaming93
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Re: Scouts..

Post by Wargaming93 »

How can you get a Mage to bunker if the Mage is not a scout? Guessing it applies if he is within the unit? May try that tomorrow actually!
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Re: Scouts..

Post by Phil Rossiter »

He can join the unit but can't use the Scout special deployment rule.

Essentially, he has to deploy in the 'characters' drop, any units you have with the 'Scout' (such as Scouts!) special deployment rule go after. So I don't think you can have him in the unit at the start of the game, I suspect he'd have to move into it turn 1.
Last edited by Phil Rossiter on 19 Feb 2014, 15:00, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Scouts..

Post by Blackcat »

They just arent as good as glade guard are in terms of shooting and they are definitely a harassing unit rather than anything else. I like deploying them halfway across the battlefield in a woods if possible and just harass units as they move towards my battle line. I deploy them behind the enemy line if possible but usually it isnt. They are ok at taking out warmachines if you can deploy close enough or engaging other chaff units.

I only use them in friendly games though because they just aren't competitive.
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Re: Scouts..

Post by kakwah »

....are <b>[censored]</b>

You did want me to finish your sentence didnt you?
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Re: Scouts..

Post by Shandrakor »

Scouts have a few things going for them. Let me list those for you!

- Core allotment
- Skirmishers
- Ranged attacks
- Can take full command and even a magic standard (1 max on all Glade Guard and Scouts)

That's about it. Personally, the only time I use Scouts is when I want to bunker a non-combat BSB and/or Wizard in a mobile unit that's cheaper than the alternatives (Wardancers, Glade Riders, Waywatchers). Here's why:

Waywatchers have additional hand weapons, making them better than Scouts at War Machine hunting (plus short range Killing Blow is marginally useful). They're also at -2 to be hit by ballistic skill shooting. At the same time, they're way more expensive and a rare choice.

Wardancers are much better in close combat, but just as fragile outside it as Scouts (6+ WS might as well be no save). Their downside is that they don't shoot (so can't really contribute to the battle with non-combat characters in them) and they're more expensive from the special allotment.

Glade Riders have a few bonuses over Scouts in that they gain Fast Cavalry reforms, move quicker, gain Vanguard, and are marginally better in close combat. Both are from core allotment. Their major drawback is that they cost a fortune in that they themselves are horribly over-priced, but they also require you to buy Elven Steeds for your characters which adds up. Not only that, but they lose the Skirmishing -1 to be hit by ballistic skill shooting too.


Lets face it, all of the above choices won't survive concentrated fire. Taking any of them is a calculated risk in that you need to have enough other threats to make the opponent not able to properly deal with the bunkering unit without letting something more immediately threatening through unscathed. So, for the one role of bunkering non-combat characters, I definitely like Scouts. Scouts can get out of harm's way quickly, while at the same time positioning for magic or BSB re-rolls, all the while, taking pot shots along the way. :thumbsup:
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Mollesvinet
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Re: Scouts..

Post by Mollesvinet »

One thing scouts does better than wardancers as a bunker is fleeing. Wardancers are immune to psychology, that makes me very nervous when my level 4 is in there, because even though they are maneuverable you cannot always predict what will happen.

Wardancers do have 5+ ward against spells, which potentially could make a difference.
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Re: Scouts..

Post by Phil Rossiter »

Didn't Joey Boy used to keep his Wardancer bunker in his free wood to make use of Stubborn?

And the Moonstone of course...
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Re: Scouts..

Post by kakwah »

Mollesvinet wrote:One thing scouts does better than wardancers as a bunker is fleeing. Wardancers are immune to psychology, that makes me very nervous when my level 4 is in there, because even though they are maneuverable you cannot always predict what will happen.

Wardancers do have 5+ ward against spells, which potentially could make a difference.
Thats why you keep your lvl 4 on a Unicorn :P
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Re: Scouts..

Post by Mollesvinet »

As great as unicorns are, the name of the thread is scouts :D if only scouts could carry the toad scroll.... hey wait, what am i saying?
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RonRJW
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Re: Scouts..

Post by RonRJW »

Also, a mage bunkered in with scouts can mitigate the damage to other models from miscasts, due to the spacing of models in a skirmisher unit. (less models under templates and no models in base contact with mage) :nod:
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Re: Scouts..

Post by Lumpin Croop »

Wood elves have scouts, you know I completely forgot!!

On a more serious note I took units of them once but waywatchers are better if you can spare the points but great eagles can do a similiar job for cheaper. I have used scouts as a mage and bsb bunker with some effect. I tend to just use points on reliable glade guard nowadays.
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Re: Scouts..

Post by popisdead »

I was looking at my buddy running 10 Shadow Warriors. With him moving his unit often it essentially meant WE paid 30 points more but still basically hit on 3s with an S3 bow.

He isn't running shadow, and Glade Guard get Bolters compared to HE archers but I still feel there must be some value in Scouts, even 5 to counter charge enemies deployed in our deploring zone or prevent Vanguard (something Dwarfs will do heavily now)
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Re: Scouts..

Post by Jamesaet3 »

Scouts are absolutey worthless, would much rather have waywatchers than scout, and would rather have glade riders than scouts.
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Re: Scouts..

Post by popisdead »

Well Scouts can block Vanguard. "Absolutely" may be a bit extreme. They are are expensive for what you get.
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Re: Scouts..

Post by Beithir Seun »

I wouldn't say there's anything in the Wood Elf list that is worthless. There's has to be some worth to a unit, otherwise it wouldn't be in the book at all. As Pop pointed out, their real problem is that they are overpriced for what you get and thus rarely worth taking under current rules.
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Re: Scouts..

Post by Coldpsyker »

I am new to wood elves and havent found them very useful

Last game I played was against the new dwarves, had a unit of 10 scouts and a unit of 9 waywatchers

The waywatchers, in their one turn of life (cant really help it when your opponent rolls boxcars on charge distance) did more than the scouts did the entire game
I may have played them wrong, but my opponent ignored themthe entire game and didnt noticably suffer for it
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Re: Scouts..

Post by hutobega »

Yea I'm not trying to be mean but they got charged in your enemies first turn. you were too close and positioned way off most likely unless he was able to place his scouts after you placed yours. I love my 10 man scout unit. last game they were my MVP survived the whole game. took out a chariot and a small unit of skirmisher and threatened his lone character.
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Re: Scouts..

Post by godswearhats »

Coldpsyker wrote:The waywatchers, in their one turn of life (cant really help it when your opponent rolls boxcars on charge distance) did more than the scouts did the entire game
You almost always want to flee as a charge reaction when your opponent charges your Waywatchers. The only exception might be if they make a mistake and charge you with a small chaff unit.
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Re: Scouts..

Post by popisdead »

Keep in mind you can always deploy your Scouts and Waywatchers in your own deploring zone during scout deployment. Something to consider if you want to keep them safer.
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Re: Scouts..

Post by Coyle_Ravane »

popisdead wrote:Keep in mind you can always deploy your Scouts and Waywatchers in your own deploring zone during scout deployment. Something to consider if you want to keep them safer.
This can be huge, leaving apparent weakspots as you deploy, then filling them after your opponent has finished deploying. Of course, it works better if the unit deployed this way actually poses a threat......
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Re: Scouts..

Post by RonRJW »

Expensive?...Yes. Worthless?... Being able to deploy in or near your opponents deployment zone....PRICELESS. :nod:
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Re: Scouts..

Post by Coldpsyker »

godswearhats wrote:
Coldpsyker wrote:The waywatchers, in their one turn of life (cant really help it when your opponent rolls boxcars on charge distance) did more than the scouts did the entire game
You almost always want to flee as a charge reaction when your opponent charges your Waywatchers. The only exception might be if they make a mistake and charge you with a small chaff unit.
As I discovered :)
But I was feeling lucky, as my opponent needed boxcars to charge them, and then he got boxcars

This was also the game where a dwarf lord on foot outran an eagle noble when he fled from combat. So it seems like he was using roided up blood bowl players to do all his fast moving
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