Banners !!

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Akaba
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Banners !!

Post by Akaba »

This post is designed to address the banners that we have available to us as Wood Elves, explaining the advantages and uses of each banner. I have also listed where possible the disadvantage of each banner. For a more personal and slightly more subjective opinion, I have added a [Personal] section after most of the banners to give my input. While I often feel like a logical person, I am aware that I do have particular preferences :) . My comments might also help some of the newer players in providing some insight to how particular banners can help bring particular play styles along. My personal comments are in general based around an all-comers list, rather than a tailored one for the enemy.

Again please C&C and I will amend this document as necessary, and apologies for the wall of text.

I have left points off of everything as I am not sure what the specific legal mumbo jumbo is.

TO DO: Math-hammer (Let me know if there is a demand for this and I'll stick it in. I am fine with math, I just haven't done it for the specific scenarios here yet.)

Units that can take magical banners
  • BSB
  • Glade Guard (and scouts)
  • Eternal Guard
  • Wild Riders
Banners

**Royal Standard (Fear and MR 1 in 12")**

Although this banner can only be fielded by the BSB, its a very expensive banner to take. The +1 MR is definitely a defensive bonus, while the addition of fear to the unit can be arguably both an offensive and defensive bonus.

Because of the defensive bonuses this banner can work well with heavy bunker units, in particular, Eternal Guard. Combined with the Rhymers Harp, this gives a typically character heavy unit a 4+ ward save against magic attacks.

The BSB could also be placed in more 'interesting' locations such as wardancers or scouts or other combat unit, giving that unit access to fear. The MR that comes with this could also act as a deterrent to the enemy casting spells on the unit.

[Personal] I feel that this banner is best used on the BSB in an eternal guard block if you would ever take it (see Lichebone Pennant). In general this banner is overpriced.

**Gaemrath (Unbreakable for one turn)**

This banner is really just an "OH S**T" banner for keeping you alive just that little bit longer. Note that it was FAQ'ed that this banner can also be used during the enemy's turn.

The most common use that I can see for this banner is for when things do not go quite as planned, for instance you managed to fail a charge with a supporting unit and you need to stick around just that 1 turn longer, but you are overwhelmed with static combat res (obviously the banner doesnt stop you losing wounds).

[Personal] I feel that this banner would be best used on either the wild riders, but also feel that they have better options available to them. This would leave space for the BSB to take another banner if desired, or even just to move points out of characters and into army selection.

**Faoghir (removes 1D6 from the enemies flee rolls)**

Obviously you want to put this on something that will be chasing down units. There are two schools of thought here. The first is that you might put this banner on something that will chase down units and chase them down hard, essentially guaranteeing your catching of the enemy. Something like Wild Riders. The second notion is that you might place this banner on your BSB on a slower (read normal charge: 2D6) unit that will get into combat and punch stuff up. Either way, you want to place this banner on something that will overrun stuff.

This banner can work nicely in multiple charge scenarios with for example an eagle and an eternal guard unit. The eternal guard holding the banner can elect to reform while the eagle can chase the fleeing enemy down on their reduced movement.

[Personal] I think that this banner would be most beneficial on a unit that could potentially run down more than one unit in a game, so I would have a preference for using it on something like the wild riders. Having said that though, improving the chances to cut down that one pivotal enemy unit could be crucial. Also if you are playing against a particular army that doesn't flee (Demons etc) dont use this banner.

**Saemrath (Marchblock distance 12")**

This banner is best placed in a position where you can maximise the number of march block tests that you have to cause the enemy to make, essentially slowing their movement down. This makes the banner best suited on something that can stay out of trouble and likely in the back lines of the enemy. The better units for this banner would be a mounted BSB (horse with Glade riders or eagle), or scouts.

[Personal] I dont rate this banner too much, due to the BSB re-rolls for leadership that everyone in my meta seems to take all the time. But against a low Ld army this could still potentially work.

**Aech (Stand and shoot at any range)**

The benefit of this banner is maximised on glade guard. This banner allows safety in moving a unit of GG up, supporting a flank of the bulk of your army, and when things get a little too close then you have a nice extra shot of arrows to put in someones face. The extra banner that you add is also useful for when you roll the Blood and Glory scenario as this is a banner that is almost always useful.

[Personal] I would run this on a small (10ish) unit of GG that sits next to a treeman / treekin etc, providng strong S4 supporting arrows.

**Rampagers Std (Reroll charge)**

Very expensive and really only worth putting on something that NEEDS to make its charge. What this does do is improve the average dice roll that you have if you dont reroll decent dice (read 8+ on 2D6). Consistency is always nice.

[Personal] Do we have something that needs this banner ? hehe. But really, the improvement in consistent rolling is nice, but expensive. In general I think that I would prefer to take other banners, but mainly because this means no magic gear and I rarely hide characters in EG units, which means he would have bad defense.

**Wailing Banner (Terror)**

Make them flee, make them fleeeeeeeee!! This banner has similar drawback to that of Saemrath, in that BSB rerolls of the enemy can be a pain, but if you can work this on units outside that bubble, such as chaff and warmachines, then this significantly increases your threat range. Causing a unit to flee and then charging another unit almost doubles your effectiveness on that charge turn.

It is also worth noting that we already have a few terror causers in the army with the treemen and dragon, but this does provide another source of terror.

[Personal] Based on the last point, I have a preference for taking this banner on Wild Riders if anything. Putting it on a BSB when on an eagle is another potential option (of a few) but it gets risky doing this.

**Rangers Std (Strider)**

On a wood elf army where we have forest strider, this banner is not too fantastic and there are other ways to spend your points. The banner would prevent some damage like anraheir's curse, but its hard to warrant a banner for these small things specifically.

**Razor Std (Armor Piercing)**

This makes it easier for you to get past the armour of the enemy and take down some of those harder to wound units that are out there. This is one of the few choices that Wood Elf have to deal with armor (another is arcane bodkins).

[Personal] In my experiences, I have found that this works best on wild riders. S5 AP1 on a charge makes them just that little bit punchier to run through units (but you have to remember you have the banner! :( ).

**War Banner (+1 Combat res)**

Helps you win fights! This is another good banner choice for wild riders as you want to punch through the enemy and get onto another unit as fast as possible. It is possible that the razor std would add more combat res through damage too, but its all about how you are going to use your units. Not a particularly good choice for eternal guard. Although it would help you win fights, you are stubborn (normally on Ld 10), and can stomach another round of combat, especially against horde units.

Worth noting as well that the WE book war banner is cheaper than the BRB war banner as well, which allows all units that can take a magical banner access to this banner.

[Personal] You could also potentially place this banner in a Glade Guard unit. But it might be worthwhile to do and discourage some enemy chaff from charging your supporting GG. You wouldnt be able to be as upfront as you would be with the Aech banner though. If you wanted to have a standard to increase your Blood and Glory fortitude score, then this might be a nice banner to add to get a little more out of the standard bearer.

**Banner of Swiftness (+1 movement)**

This banner is relatively more effective on units that do not move far. This banner makes it easier to charge and just navigate your way around the board in general with the unit.

[Personal] I never use this banner on cavalry, as I think the M9 to M10 is overkill given that we have only fast cav and can get anywhere on the board, I feel that if you need that 1" on cavalry, you're doing something wrong. The rest of the army doesnt really need to move that much in my experience, but it might be interesting in scouts / waywatchers for getting an extra inch in where it matters.

**Lichebone Pennant (Magic Resistance 1)**

If you are not concerned about fear, this banner trumps the Royal Std, giving you MR1. The effects here for MR1 are the same as in royal standard, but now you have more flexibility on where to put it. Also cheap!

[Personal] Although there are more choices for where this banner can go, for instance the glade guard can hold this banner, I feel that the main uses are the same as the Royal Std. I would personally rather spend the points on a standard and banner elsewhere in the glade guard scenario.

**Std Discipline (+1 Leadership, cant use general's Ld)**

This banner provides a means of acquiring Ld 10 without having a lord in the unit. This is most ideal for eternal guard, but they have several good choices already. This standard is sometimes useful if your general is a spellweaver or a noble, as it can provide your army with a LD10 inspiring presence.

As another use, it makes a good banner to put on a Scout bunker that runs a Spellweaver general in said Scout unit. This effectively makes the Spellweaver a Leadership 10 General for so long as it stays in the Scouts.

[Personal] I think the strength of this banner is apparent in other armies where units with this banner can have a leadership value that is greater than that of the general. Elvish leadership is amazing as it is. Suggestions welcome on how this banner can be objectively useful. Wild riders could use this, but I think you would much prefer to take another banner.

**Banner of Eternal Flame (Flaming attacks)**

This banner provides all the bonuses of flaming attacks. Most notably is the removal of regeneration from the enemy. A second minor advantage is that you cause fear to cavalry units. Combining these things together often mean that the best place for the BoEF is on a larger glade guard unit. This maximises your chance to score a wound that removes regen before other units pile attacks into the same enemy target. Adding a reform before you are charged on this large GG unit means that you get rank bonuses to your combat res, and potentially cause fear to the charger !

[Personal] I would always have a unit of GG with this banner in every game that I play, providing a method for removing regen is imperative in an all comers list. Again, if you wanted to have a standard to increase your Blood and Glory fortitude score, then this might be a nice banner to add to get a little more out of the standard bearer.

**Gleaming Pennant (1use, reroll leadership test)**

If you have a BSB around, then there are better choices for banners. This banner does improve the safety of a unit where you are taking a standard for combat res anyway as the banner is really cheap. Taking a standard specifically for access to this banner is probably not worth it and the points could be better spent elsewhere.

**Scarecrow Banner (Cause fear to flyers)**

[Personal] In an allcomers list, I would take the gleaming pennant over this banner anyday. Could be useful if the enemy loved warhawk riders though :sexy: Welcoming generic strategies for this banner !

Edit: Thanks Moll
Edit: Thanks GWH
Edit: Thanks Shandrakor
Last edited by Akaba on 29 Dec 2013, 03:27, edited 3 times in total.
Akaba
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Re: Banners !!

Post by Akaba »

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Mollesvinet
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Re: Banners !!

Post by Mollesvinet »

Standard of discipline is sometimes useful if your general is a spellweaver or a noble, as it can provide your army with a LD10 inspiring presence.
Akaba
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Re: Banners !!

Post by Akaba »

Will add in !
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godswearhats
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Re: Banners !!

Post by godswearhats »

Also, War Banner is cheaper for Wood Elves than the BRB points cost so you can take it in a unit of Glade
Guard.

Nice article! I'll add it to the tactica index when I'm at my computer.
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Shandrakor
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Re: Banners !!

Post by Shandrakor »

Akaba wrote:Units that can take banners
  • BSB
  • Glade Guard
  • Eternal Guard
  • Wild Riders
You should probably note that this is only for magical banners and include Scouts in this list. Even though they're just modified Glade Guard, they're different in usage, so worth delineating on.
Akaba wrote:Banners
**Royal Standard (Fear and MR 1 in 12")**
This banner is absurdly overpriced. The only model that can take it is a nearly naked BSB and its effects are mostly nullified in 8th edition where fear isn't such a big deal and there's many more statistic check or augment/hex spells which MR doesn't affect. Wouldn't recommend ever using it.

On that note, I wouldn't recommend ever taking a magical standard on a Wood Elven BSB in general. Too fragile to survive without magic items and none of the BSB specific banners are worth taking really.
Akaba wrote:**Gaemrath (Unbreakable for one turn)**
[Personal] I feel that this banner would be best used on either the wild riders or eternal guard standard. This would leave space for the BSB to take another banner if desired, or even just to move points out of characters and into army selection.
This is true in that Gaemrath is most likely best on Wild Riders or Eternal Guard. Unfortunately, for Wild Riders, they're too weak defensively to really consider using this banner over something else, as it doesn't prevent them from being wiped out while they're Unbreakable. And as for Eternal Guard, they're already Stubborn with a Noble or Highborn in them, so this banner doesn't really help them compared to other, better options.
Akaba wrote:**Faoghir (removes 1D6 from the enemies flee rolls)**
This banner can be good in conjunction with multiple charges into the same combat. If the banner is on an Eternal Guard unit you can charge in with an Eagle Noble or Wild Riders, for instance, with the Eternal Guard in the same combat. When the enemy unit breaks, all of your units can chase the enemy unit, but it doesn't matter which of your units has Faoghir that slows down the enemy unit, just that you have it.

So in the above situation of the Eternal Guard and say a unit of Wild Riders breaking an enemy unit. You could then choose to run them down with the faster Wild Riders while the Eternal Guard with Faoghir decides to reform. It should then be extremely easy to catch a unit that only runs 2D6 drop the lowest die or 1D6 compared to your Wild Riders rolling 3D6 drop the lowest die.
Akaba wrote:**Saemrath (Marchblock distance 12")**
[Personal] I dont rate this banner too much, due to the BSB re-rolls for leadership that everyone in my meta seems to take all the time. But against a low Ld army this could still potentially work.
You pretty much hit the nail on the head with this one. 8th edition mostly marginalized March Blocking to the extreme, kind of like Fear. Thus that makes this banner not so good.
Akaba wrote:**Aech (Stand and shoot at any range)**
The benefit of this banner is maximised on glade guard.
I agree, though that's not saying much because the only other unit that shoots in the Wood Elf list that can take a magic banner (outside relying on a BSB) is Scouts. Generally, I find this banner is most useful on a larger unit of Glade Guard that hides in a building since combat result doesn't matter as much there and enemy units have to charge each round onto the unit with Aech, allowing a stand and shoot each round.
Akaba wrote:The extra banner that you add is also useful for when you roll the Blood and Glory scenario as this is a banner that is almost always useful.
Careful how you word this. You don't need a magic banner to get +1 Fortitude in Blood and Glory. A Standard Bearer counts for the Fortitude point regardless of the unit or magic banner.
Akaba wrote:**Rampagers Std (Reroll charge)**
[Personal] Do we have something that needs this banner ? hehe. But really, the improvement in consistent rolling is nice, but expensive. In general I think that I would prefer to take other banners, but mainly because this means no magic gear and I rarely hide characters in EG units, which means he would have bad defense.
Agreed.
Akaba wrote:**Wailing Banner (Terror)**
[Personal] Based on the last point, I have a preference for taking this banner on Wild Riders if anything. Putting it on a BSB when on an eagle is another potential option (of a few) but it gets risky doing this.
Mostly, this banner is overpriced for its effectiveness. Granted, if you're lucky it can do amazing things on a unit of Wild Riders perhaps. But, with Treemen and Forest Dragons already having Terror in our list, it's generally an unnecessary magic banner.
Akaba wrote:**Rangers Std (Strider)**
On a wood elf army where we have forest strider, this banner is not too fantastic and there are other ways to spend your points. The banner would prevent some damage like anraheir's curse, but its hard to warrant a banner for these small things specifically.
Agreed.
Akaba wrote:**Razor Std (Armor Piercing)**
[Personal] In my experiences, I have found that this works best on wild riders. S5 AP1 on a charge makes them just that little bit punchier to run through units (but you have to remember you have the banner! :( ).
This is possibly the best banner out there for Wood Elves who chronically have problems with high Armor Saves. Wild Riders (higher Strength) or Eternal Guard (mass quantity of attacks) especially benefit from it. Not so good for ranged units like Glade Guard because it doesn't work on shooting.
Akaba wrote:**War Banner (+1 Combat res)**
[Personal] You would have to place the BSB in some glade guard to do this (because of banner cost). But it might be worthwhile to do and discourage some enemy chaff from charging your supporting GG. You wouldnt be able to be as upfront as you would be with the Aech banner though. This would further increase your Blood and Glory fortitude.
Again, be careful how you word the Blood and Glory Fortitude stuff. This banner acts like any other banner, non-magical or otherwise, as far as Fortitude is concerned. As far as its effectiveness, well, it can turn the tide where you least expect it to. It's a small but quite useful boost, especially at the cheaper Wood Elven discounted price. Works best on Eternal Guard and Wild Rider, especially so against enemies with little or no armor, where the Razor Banner is made ineffective.
Akaba wrote:**Banner of Swiftness (+1 movement)**
[Personal] I never use this banner on cavalry, as I think the M9 to M10 is overkill given that we have only fast cav and can get anywhere on the board, I feel that if you need that 1" on cavalry, you're doing something wrong. The rest of the army doesnt really need to move that much in my experience, but it might be interesting in scouts / waywatchers for getting an extra inch in where it matters.
It's a possibly interesting banner in certain circumstances, but usually outshone by other magical banners.
Akaba wrote:**Lichebone Pennant (Magic Resistance 1)**
[Personal] Although there are more choices for where this banner can go, for instance the glade guard can hold this banner, I feel that the main uses are the same as the Royal Std. I would personally rather spend the points on a standard and banner elsewhere in the glade guard scenario.
A cheap banner with lots of places it can go, but usually outshone by other banners.
Akaba wrote:**Std Discipline (+1 Leadership, cant use general's Ld)**
[Personal] I think the strength of this banner is apparent in other armies where units with this banner can have a leadership value that is greater than that of the general. Elvish leadership is amazing as it is. Suggestions welcome on how this banner can be objectively useful. Wild riders could use this, but I think you would much prefer to take another banner.
Don't discount this banner right away in a high Leadership army. It makes a good banner to put on a Scout bunker that runs a Spellweaver general in said Scout unit. This effectively makes the Spellweaver a Leadership 10 General for so long as it stays in the Scouts.
Akaba wrote:**Banner of Eternal Flame (Flaming attacks)**
[Personal] I would always have a unit of GG with this banner in every game that I play, providing a method for removing regen is imperative in an all comers list. Again, this improves your fortitude for Blood and Glory too.
Agreed, though watch how you word your Fortitude comments again. As before, this banner does nothing special in terms of Fortitude. Just having a banner at all gives that benefit.
Akaba wrote:**Gleaming Pennant (1use, reroll leadership test)**
Taking a standard specifically for access to this banner is probably not worth it and the points could be better spent elsewhere.
Agreed.
Akaba wrote:**Scarecrow Banner (Cause fear to flyers)**
[Personal] In an allcomers list, I would take the gleaming pennant over this banner anyday. Could be useful if the enemy loved warhawk riders though :sexy: Welcoming generic strategies for this banner !
Unfortunately, there aren't too many strategies for this banner because Wood Elves already have a lot of units that cause Fear and Fear isn't exactly that good in 8th edition anyways.

Anyways, sorry for the long winded response, and thanks for the write-up!
Well, my ideas for the next book turned out to be a bust.
But it was still fun working on something of this scale.
For those who care:
http://www.asrai.org/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=22620
Akaba
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Re: Banners !!

Post by Akaba »

Thanks guys, have taken your responses and folded them into the post
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Re: Banners !!

Post by LandonElf »

Gleaming Penant- I have found this banner useful on small units of Wildriders that take a standard solely for the purposes of Blood and Glory. Considering your already paying 18pts for the banner, another 5 points to possibly save your unit from a fluffed break test is fairly tempting.

Even in ideal circumstances, a small unit of wildriders can lose combat by a point or two simply because of your opponents combat rez bonuses. Being able to reroll that fluffed 7 or 8 could be clutch.
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Re: Banners !!

Post by Phil Rossiter »

LandonElf wrote:Gleaming Penant- I have found this banner useful on small units of Wildriders that take a standard solely for the purposes of Blood and Glory. Considering your already paying 18pts for the banner, another 5 points to possibly save your unit from a fluffed break test is fairly tempting.
+1

On my unit of 8 plus Stag Lord it's even more important. The BSB is usually out of range so the ability to re-roll a failed break test for an expensive Ld10 unit is almost essential IMHO. The joy of ITP of course is that you don't waste the re-roll on a failed Panic test.
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godswearhats
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Re: Banners !!

Post by godswearhats »

Added this tactica to the LEAF.

http://asrai.org/leaf/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=37
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