Alter Kindred Vs Eagle Noble

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dusk1983
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Alter Kindred Vs Eagle Noble

Post by dusk1983 »

Sorry if it seems like I'm spamming the forums, I assure you all its not my intention.

I have an eagle noble that I bought ages ago before all the rules clarifications came out about how they work in combat to serve as my primary Warmachine hunter.

From what I have been lead to understand more recently, essentially with an eagle noble I am paying 50 points extra to give my noble an extra wound and a 10" fly move with a +1 bonus to armour save. personally I dont think this is all that grand seeing as you only use the highest wound value between the two models not also the highest toughness value.

The question is thusly, seeing as Alter nobles have a massive move Plus are better at Killy-ness Plus they are a lot cheaper than 50 points, would I be better off going an alter to accomplish the same thing?

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Re: Alter Kindred Vs Eagle Noble

Post by Playonwords »

Well, the eagles giving 3 wounds compared to the noble's 2 and giving +1 AS is not to be overlooked. Combined with the armour you can give that noble, you can get a character with some staying power which is lacking in wood elves normally. For example an eternal kindred noble on eagle with light armour and shield has a 2+ save. Give him a spear as well and you have 3 S5 hits which should take out most warmachines' crew. Also, the eagle does have 2 S4 attacks of its own which should be the final nail in the coffin for the crew.

What does the alter have that can potentially be as good for this task? Well, youre right in that the alter gets more attacks and can move almost as far, but he doesnt get swiftstride for that all important charge against a warmachine.

So im summary - thats why id personally take the eagle noble for this role
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Re: Alter Kindred Vs Eagle Noble

Post by deneris »

It's even better than that — if you're in the majority that accepts eternal kindred stacks with non-magic arms and armor, you also get an additional attack with that spear. Essentially, the Eternal Kindred is granting +1 Attack and Scaly Skin (5+) that disappear if you use magic weapons/armor.
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Re: Alter Kindred Vs Eagle Noble

Post by Alor »

deneris wrote:It's even better than that — if you're in the majority that accepts eternal kindred stacks with non-magic arms and armor, you also get an additional attack with that spear. Essentially, the Eternal Kindred is granting +1 Attack and Scaly Skin (5+) that disappear if you use magic weapons/armor.
The eternal kindred does not provide an additional attack. The noble fights as having with an extra hand weapon, so the +1 attack only applies if he is on foot and not mounted.
Nevertheless, I agree the eagle noble is more potent than the alter. Slightly faster, flier, one more wound, cheap when combined with eternal kindred.
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Re: Alter Kindred Vs Eagle Noble

Post by Peleborn »

Not sure that an Alter is "better at killyness" anyway. Don't forget your Eagle has two WS5 S4 attacks and can stomp too.
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Re: Alter Kindred Vs Eagle Noble

Post by Shandrakor »

Peleborn wrote:Not sure that an Alter is "better at killyness" anyway. Don't forget your Eagle has two WS5 S4 attacks and can stomp too.
This, I would never take Alter Kindred these days. Besides not being able to join units, when comparing to a Great Eagle character of the same type as Alter, the Great Eagle character gives a bonus wound + bonus attack + armor save + stomp + swiftstride + fly (moving over units is extremely handy) over the Alter character for only slightly more points. Definitely worth it in my opinion.
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Re: Alter Kindred Vs Eagle Noble

Post by Pawiie »

Alor wrote:
deneris wrote:It's even better than that — if you're in the majority that accepts eternal kindred stacks with non-magic arms and armor, you also get an additional attack with that spear. Essentially, the Eternal Kindred is granting +1 Attack and Scaly Skin (5+) that disappear if you use magic weapons/armor.
The eternal kindred does not provide an additional attack. The noble fights as having with an extra hand weapon, so the +1 attack only applies if he is on foot and not mounted.
Nevertheless, I agree the eagle noble is more potent than the alter. Slightly faster, flier, one more wound, cheap when combined with eternal kindred.
Alor - Actually its states in the Eternal Guard Fighting Style "They are considered to fight as if they were armed with two hand weapons in close combat if they are in base contact with an enemy."
this does give them a +1 Attack, and also they lose their parry save in close combat, as its only hand weapon & shield granting that save.
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Re: Alter Kindred Vs Eagle Noble

Post by NonnoSte »

Wasn't there something that did not allow mounts for eternal kindred?

Anyway, accordingly to BRB's FAQ monstrous mounts DO pass their toughness to the entire model in addiction to their wounds.
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Re: Alter Kindred Vs Eagle Noble

Post by hutobega »

I take both... I like having two targets that can charge in to keep people away from my archer and the alter is a good monster killer.. or character assassin. not the best use a points but i like it :)
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Re: Alter Kindred Vs Eagle Noble

Post by mabelode »

From deneris
if you're in the majority that accepts eternal kindred stacks with non-magic arms and armor,
Maybe the majority but it's been FAQ'd so it doesn't unless you've got a local rule that's accepted.
From Playonwords
For example an eternal kindred noble on eagle with light armour and shield has a 2+ save.
As above, FAQ'd so he's 5+ regardless but now 4+ as he's mounted.

I use to always have an Alter in 7th but now use an Eaglerider all the time. Shame really :(
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Re: Alter Kindred Vs Eagle Noble

Post by Pawiie »

mabelode wrote:
From deneris
if you're in the majority that accepts eternal kindred stacks with non-magic arms and armor,
Maybe the majority but it's been FAQ'd so it doesn't unless you've got a local rule that's accepted.
Link to this FAQ?
I haven't been able to find it ANYWHERE !
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Re: Alter Kindred Vs Eagle Noble

Post by godswearhats »

It's on the GW website. Here's a link. On Page 3 in bright purple.
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Re: Alter Kindred Vs Eagle Noble

Post by hutobega »

That's the newest right?
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Re: Alter Kindred Vs Eagle Noble

Post by Drstrangelove »

dusk1983 wrote: you only use the highest wound value between the two models not also the highest toughness value.
This also has been FAQed. Monstrous cavalry (which eagle nobles are) uses the highest wounds AND toughness between the two models. So in fact you are gaining +1 wound, +1 toughness, Fly, stomp, immunity to stomps, and the eagles attacks.
This makes it an absolute bargain.
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Re: Alter Kindred Vs Eagle Noble

Post by godswearhats »

hutobega wrote:That's the newest right?
Yes.
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Re: Alter Kindred Vs Eagle Noble

Post by godswearhats »

Drstrangelove wrote:[So in fact you are gaining +1 wound, +1 toughness, Fly, stomp, immunity to stomps, and the eagles attacks.
This makes it an absolute bargain.
Agreed. The Eagle Noble is simply the best value for points in the army.
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Re: Alter Kindred Vs Eagle Noble

Post by Pawiie »

NonnoSte wrote:Wasn't there something that did not allow mounts for eternal kindred?
Is this one true?
It never really got closed..

Giving the noble EK would save 1 point compared to bying him the additional hand weapon, light armour & shield..

But if EK' can't be mounted then it's pointless to discuss about that.
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Re: Alter Kindred Vs Eagle Noble

Post by Drstrangelove »

it says on foot.
So big NO to mounted.
The best armour save you can get with Eternal kindred is 5+. Period. The FAQ settles it.
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Re: Alter Kindred Vs Eagle Noble

Post by Shandrakor »

Drstrangelove wrote:it says on foot.
So big NO to mounted.
The best armour save you can get with Eternal kindred is 5+. Period. The FAQ settles it.
Eternal Guard Kindred does NOT have to be on foot. Nowhere does it state that in the Kindred entry. However, this still doesn't make the Kindred worth taking unless you were looking for a cheap upgrade to a barebone character...
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Re: Alter Kindred Vs Eagle Noble

Post by Phil Rossiter »

Drstrangelove wrote:+1 wound, +1 toughness, Fly, stomp, immunity to stomps, and the eagles attacks.
Also immunity to KB. On the downside he is somewhat vulnerable to screams, RBT, spells but of course this is true of the Alter also.

At the end of the day a great pick in a lot of lists.
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Re: Alter Kindred Vs Eagle Noble

Post by JAMOB »

Alor wrote: The eternal kindred does not provide an additional attack. The noble fights as having with an extra hand weapon, so the +1 attack only applies if he is on foot and not mounted.
Would the noble still get to use the spear though? Or is that only in the 2nd/3rd/4th ranks?
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Re: Alter Kindred Vs Eagle Noble

Post by godswearhats »

That rule is only in effect when fighting from third rank and further back.
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Re: Alter Kindred Vs Eagle Noble

Post by Jamesaet3 »

Your alter is used for killing mages and heroes and challenges during a charge. The hero on a great eagle is for flanks and rears and warmachines.
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Re: Alter Kindred Vs Eagle Noble

Post by HeroZero »

I simply cannot think of one time I would field an altar over an eagle.
Eagle noble with AoDestiny is simply the best bargain in that category.

If I want a crazy combat character I'm reaching for the dancerborn anyway.
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