Alter Kindred Vs Eagle Noble
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- dusk1983
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Alter Kindred Vs Eagle Noble
Sorry if it seems like I'm spamming the forums, I assure you all its not my intention.
I have an eagle noble that I bought ages ago before all the rules clarifications came out about how they work in combat to serve as my primary Warmachine hunter.
From what I have been lead to understand more recently, essentially with an eagle noble I am paying 50 points extra to give my noble an extra wound and a 10" fly move with a +1 bonus to armour save. personally I dont think this is all that grand seeing as you only use the highest wound value between the two models not also the highest toughness value.
The question is thusly, seeing as Alter nobles have a massive move Plus are better at Killy-ness Plus they are a lot cheaper than 50 points, would I be better off going an alter to accomplish the same thing?
Moved to the Glade of Generals ~ Beithir
I have an eagle noble that I bought ages ago before all the rules clarifications came out about how they work in combat to serve as my primary Warmachine hunter.
From what I have been lead to understand more recently, essentially with an eagle noble I am paying 50 points extra to give my noble an extra wound and a 10" fly move with a +1 bonus to armour save. personally I dont think this is all that grand seeing as you only use the highest wound value between the two models not also the highest toughness value.
The question is thusly, seeing as Alter nobles have a massive move Plus are better at Killy-ness Plus they are a lot cheaper than 50 points, would I be better off going an alter to accomplish the same thing?
Moved to the Glade of Generals ~ Beithir
...So if you're addressing me direct, just call me Lance or Dusk, no 1983 please.
Chaos dwarf tactica: http://www.asrai.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=23535
Chaos dwarf plog: http://www.asrai.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=23159
Chaos dwarf tactica: http://www.asrai.org/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=23535
Chaos dwarf plog: http://www.asrai.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=23159
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- Horsemaster
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Re: Alter Kindred Vs Eagle Noble
Well, the eagles giving 3 wounds compared to the noble's 2 and giving +1 AS is not to be overlooked. Combined with the armour you can give that noble, you can get a character with some staying power which is lacking in wood elves normally. For example an eternal kindred noble on eagle with light armour and shield has a 2+ save. Give him a spear as well and you have 3 S5 hits which should take out most warmachines' crew. Also, the eagle does have 2 S4 attacks of its own which should be the final nail in the coffin for the crew.
What does the alter have that can potentially be as good for this task? Well, youre right in that the alter gets more attacks and can move almost as far, but he doesnt get swiftstride for that all important charge against a warmachine.
So im summary - thats why id personally take the eagle noble for this role
What does the alter have that can potentially be as good for this task? Well, youre right in that the alter gets more attacks and can move almost as far, but he doesnt get swiftstride for that all important charge against a warmachine.
So im summary - thats why id personally take the eagle noble for this role
Re: Alter Kindred Vs Eagle Noble
It's even better than that — if you're in the majority that accepts eternal kindred stacks with non-magic arms and armor, you also get an additional attack with that spear. Essentially, the Eternal Kindred is granting +1 Attack and Scaly Skin (5+) that disappear if you use magic weapons/armor.
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Re: Alter Kindred Vs Eagle Noble
The eternal kindred does not provide an additional attack. The noble fights as having with an extra hand weapon, so the +1 attack only applies if he is on foot and not mounted.deneris wrote:It's even better than that — if you're in the majority that accepts eternal kindred stacks with non-magic arms and armor, you also get an additional attack with that spear. Essentially, the Eternal Kindred is granting +1 Attack and Scaly Skin (5+) that disappear if you use magic weapons/armor.
Nevertheless, I agree the eagle noble is more potent than the alter. Slightly faster, flier, one more wound, cheap when combined with eternal kindred.
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Re: Alter Kindred Vs Eagle Noble
Not sure that an Alter is "better at killyness" anyway. Don't forget your Eagle has two WS5 S4 attacks and can stomp too.
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- Shandrakor
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Re: Alter Kindred Vs Eagle Noble
This, I would never take Alter Kindred these days. Besides not being able to join units, when comparing to a Great Eagle character of the same type as Alter, the Great Eagle character gives a bonus wound + bonus attack + armor save + stomp + swiftstride + fly (moving over units is extremely handy) over the Alter character for only slightly more points. Definitely worth it in my opinion.Peleborn wrote:Not sure that an Alter is "better at killyness" anyway. Don't forget your Eagle has two WS5 S4 attacks and can stomp too.
Well, my ideas for the next book turned out to be a bust.
But it was still fun working on something of this scale.
For those who care:
http://www.asrai.org/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=22620
But it was still fun working on something of this scale.
For those who care:
http://www.asrai.org/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=22620
Re: Alter Kindred Vs Eagle Noble
Alor - Actually its states in the Eternal Guard Fighting Style "They are considered to fight as if they were armed with two hand weapons in close combat if they are in base contact with an enemy."Alor wrote:The eternal kindred does not provide an additional attack. The noble fights as having with an extra hand weapon, so the +1 attack only applies if he is on foot and not mounted.deneris wrote:It's even better than that — if you're in the majority that accepts eternal kindred stacks with non-magic arms and armor, you also get an additional attack with that spear. Essentially, the Eternal Kindred is granting +1 Attack and Scaly Skin (5+) that disappear if you use magic weapons/armor.
Nevertheless, I agree the eagle noble is more potent than the alter. Slightly faster, flier, one more wound, cheap when combined with eternal kindred.
this does give them a +1 Attack, and also they lose their parry save in close combat, as its only hand weapon & shield granting that save.
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Re: Alter Kindred Vs Eagle Noble
Wasn't there something that did not allow mounts for eternal kindred?
Anyway, accordingly to BRB's FAQ monstrous mounts DO pass their toughness to the entire model in addiction to their wounds.
Anyway, accordingly to BRB's FAQ monstrous mounts DO pass their toughness to the entire model in addiction to their wounds.
- hutobega
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Re: Alter Kindred Vs Eagle Noble
I take both... I like having two targets that can charge in to keep people away from my archer and the alter is a good monster killer.. or character assassin. not the best use a points but i like it
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Re: Alter Kindred Vs Eagle Noble
Maybe the majority but it's been FAQ'd so it doesn't unless you've got a local rule that's accepted.From deneris
if you're in the majority that accepts eternal kindred stacks with non-magic arms and armor,
As above, FAQ'd so he's 5+ regardless but now 4+ as he's mounted.From Playonwords
For example an eternal kindred noble on eagle with light armour and shield has a 2+ save.
I use to always have an Alter in 7th but now use an Eaglerider all the time. Shame really
Re: Alter Kindred Vs Eagle Noble
Link to this FAQ?mabelode wrote:Maybe the majority but it's been FAQ'd so it doesn't unless you've got a local rule that's accepted.From deneris
if you're in the majority that accepts eternal kindred stacks with non-magic arms and armor,
I haven't been able to find it ANYWHERE !
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Re: Alter Kindred Vs Eagle Noble
It's on the GW website. Here's a link. On Page 3 in bright purple.
- hutobega
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Re: Alter Kindred Vs Eagle Noble
That's the newest right?
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Re: Alter Kindred Vs Eagle Noble
This also has been FAQed. Monstrous cavalry (which eagle nobles are) uses the highest wounds AND toughness between the two models. So in fact you are gaining +1 wound, +1 toughness, Fly, stomp, immunity to stomps, and the eagles attacks.dusk1983 wrote: you only use the highest wound value between the two models not also the highest toughness value.
This makes it an absolute bargain.
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- godswearhats
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Re: Alter Kindred Vs Eagle Noble
Yes.hutobega wrote:That's the newest right?
- godswearhats
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Re: Alter Kindred Vs Eagle Noble
Agreed. The Eagle Noble is simply the best value for points in the army.Drstrangelove wrote:[So in fact you are gaining +1 wound, +1 toughness, Fly, stomp, immunity to stomps, and the eagles attacks.
This makes it an absolute bargain.
Re: Alter Kindred Vs Eagle Noble
Is this one true?NonnoSte wrote:Wasn't there something that did not allow mounts for eternal kindred?
It never really got closed..
Giving the noble EK would save 1 point compared to bying him the additional hand weapon, light armour & shield..
But if EK' can't be mounted then it's pointless to discuss about that.
----------------
What would you give your Noble on GE "IF!!" EK isn't allowed to be mounted.
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Re: Alter Kindred Vs Eagle Noble
it says on foot.
So big NO to mounted.
The best armour save you can get with Eternal kindred is 5+. Period. The FAQ settles it.
So big NO to mounted.
The best armour save you can get with Eternal kindred is 5+. Period. The FAQ settles it.
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- Shandrakor
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Re: Alter Kindred Vs Eagle Noble
Eternal Guard Kindred does NOT have to be on foot. Nowhere does it state that in the Kindred entry. However, this still doesn't make the Kindred worth taking unless you were looking for a cheap upgrade to a barebone character...Drstrangelove wrote:it says on foot.
So big NO to mounted.
The best armour save you can get with Eternal kindred is 5+. Period. The FAQ settles it.
Well, my ideas for the next book turned out to be a bust.
But it was still fun working on something of this scale.
For those who care:
http://www.asrai.org/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=22620
But it was still fun working on something of this scale.
For those who care:
http://www.asrai.org/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=22620
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Re: Alter Kindred Vs Eagle Noble
Also immunity to KB. On the downside he is somewhat vulnerable to screams, RBT, spells but of course this is true of the Alter also.Drstrangelove wrote:+1 wound, +1 toughness, Fly, stomp, immunity to stomps, and the eagles attacks.
At the end of the day a great pick in a lot of lists.
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Re: Alter Kindred Vs Eagle Noble
Would the noble still get to use the spear though? Or is that only in the 2nd/3rd/4th ranks?Alor wrote: The eternal kindred does not provide an additional attack. The noble fights as having with an extra hand weapon, so the +1 attack only applies if he is on foot and not mounted.
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Re: Alter Kindred Vs Eagle Noble
That rule is only in effect when fighting from third rank and further back.
Re: Alter Kindred Vs Eagle Noble
Your alter is used for killing mages and heroes and challenges during a charge. The hero on a great eagle is for flanks and rears and warmachines.
Let them shoot first, we'll shoot best.
Re: Alter Kindred Vs Eagle Noble
I simply cannot think of one time I would field an altar over an eagle.
Eagle noble with AoDestiny is simply the best bargain in that category.
If I want a crazy combat character I'm reaching for the dancerborn anyway.
Eagle noble with AoDestiny is simply the best bargain in that category.
If I want a crazy combat character I'm reaching for the dancerborn anyway.