Alter Highborn ( close combat version )

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Alter Highborn ( close combat version )

Postby Kulgan86 » 02 May 2011, 18:56

What's a good Alter Highborn close combat build? It must have potential but I just don't see the right combination of items! I want my Alter Highborn to be able and take out anything except ranked infantry.
But things like monsters and 2+ AS cavalry should be on his can do list. Otherwise you can just take an Eagle for 50 points instead.

I'v been thinking about: I'm deliberatly taking combinations of 50 points max, to spend the other on protection.

- extra handweapon ,helm of the hunt, potion of strength +

This gives you a whopping 7 WS8 S7 attacks on the charge, quite the punch. Against monsters this is fine I guess, only they should better not be alive to retaliate... he could maybe survive 1 round but after that he should be done with that combat. The advantage is he keeps his 6 attacks and 7 on the charge, if you survive long enough this guy can charge a ' soft ' target after the ' hard ' target and again be succesfull.
The problem is when facing heavy cavalry, if your opponent is cunning he'll simply challenge if you take your potion! You'll win combat by a few points in this case but if the enemy doens't break right there you're dead in the water.
You could always not take the potion and challenge yourself, the problem here is if there's a back rank for any present hero to retreat to, or if it's only a champion, if your opponent is cunning, he'll simply do this and fight you with his regular troops, against whom you'll be dead in the water.

- Ogre Blade (2+S) and Potion of Foolhardiness

This provides 5 WS7 S6 attacks and one time an additional attack on the charge. This gives you consistent attacks, combined with a ward a solid combat character. This guy can chew through 2+ As and keep doing it.
Pherhaps the glitterling scales would come in handy here :

Ogre Blade, Potion of Foolhardiness, Glittering scales and any of our 30 point ward saves. ( 3+ward untill failed or 2+ward when reduced to one wound )
He'd be at -1 to hit, so 5's at best for normal troops and most heroes, 6's for WS3 troops.


Thanks for any input, be it constructive or,... well let's just keep it to constructive shall we :thumbsup:
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Re: Alter Highborn ( close combat version )

Postby unicorn » 02 May 2011, 19:10

Kulgan86 wrote: - Ogre Blade (2+S) and Potion of Foolhardiness

What is an advantage of Ogre blade, comparing to 2HW? Striking last is not that much issue, as you really wish to keep this character alive, so he must survive attacks no matter if they come before or after his ones.
But when you take 2HW, you have more points to spend on defense (silvered steel armor, talisman of preservation and foolhardines potion comes to my mind immediately; or HotH, preservation and healing potion)

Just an idea.
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BSB, mounted noble, WD noble, Branchie, Alter, Treeman, 12 WR, 10 WD, 10 GR, 10 WW, 5 Dryads, 5 WhR, 6 Tk, Altar of Khaine
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Re: Alter Highborn ( close combat version )

Postby Breeze » 02 May 2011, 20:29

Great Weapon, Armour of Destiny, Fimblewinter Shard and Terrifying Mask of EEEE.

The Fimblewinter Shard shouldn't be that big a deal since its on a Highborn as he shouldn't be within 6 inches of a Forest Spirit after the first turn, where you should have a BSB nearby in case you do fluff the Stupidity test.
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Re: Alter Highborn ( close combat version )

Postby Hillbilly Carl » 02 May 2011, 21:17

I always kit him out with the bow of loren, arcane bodkins, a great weapon and then the 3+ ward save item that doesn't help against magic. He is primarily there to kill at range but eventually he is going to get into combat and when he does you just have to make sure he doesn't fight anything with magical attacks. If you want him to be purely close combat you could give him the 2+ armour save armour instead of the bow and arrows. 2+ armour save, 3+ ward save and 5 WS7 S6 attacks should do ok. I prefer to have the bow myself but you can definitely turn him into a tank if you want.
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Re: Alter Highborn ( close combat version )

Postby unicorn » 02 May 2011, 22:17

Hillbilly Carl wrote:I always kit him out with the bow of loren, arcane bodkins, a great weapon and then the 3+ ward save item that doesn't help against magic.

Yeah, this is my 7th ed build. I do not like it in 8th tough, as you can hardly hide him out of LoS of enemy mages - and if he is within their sight, even stupid D6 S4 magic missiles are damn threatening for him.
Unicorn's conversions (updated 1st Jun)
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BSB, mounted noble, WD noble, Branchie, Alter, Treeman, 12 WR, 10 WD, 10 GR, 10 WW, 5 Dryads, 5 WhR, 6 Tk, Altar of Khaine
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Treeman, 10 WD, dragon lord, Alter, 9 WhR, 5 GR, DE sin, OK Butcher, Beast heroes x5
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Re: Alter Highborn ( close combat version )

Postby sirkently » 05 May 2011, 02:57

Armour of Destiny, Wildfire blades, Fimbulwinter Shard, The Other Trickster's Shard.

That is my setup.
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Re: Alter Highborn ( close combat version )

Postby Breeze » 05 May 2011, 03:16

Does the Other Trickster's Shard require the bearer to reroll successful ward saves, it says models in base contact with the bearer but nothing about the bearer themselves.
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Re: Alter Highborn ( close combat version )

Postby sirkently » 05 May 2011, 03:25

Breeze wrote:Does the Other Trickster's Shard require the bearer to reroll successful ward saves, it says models in base contact with the bearer but nothing about the bearer themselves.


I take it to mean that the bearer doesn't have to reroll his ward saves. Every thing else I can think of that affects things in base contact will specifically say that it also affects the model if it does so. Specifically, miscast results that affect things in base contact say also to affect the wizard. Since the shard doesn't have that addendum, I take it to mean it doesn't affect him.
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Re: Alter Highborn ( close combat version )

Postby unicorn » 05 May 2011, 10:35

sirkently wrote:Since the shard doesn't have that addendum, I take it to mean it doesn't affect him.

Yeah. There are some pretty long debates about this topic, but general consensus is it does not affect the bearer.
Unicorn's conversions (updated 1st Jun)
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BSB, mounted noble, WD noble, Branchie, Alter, Treeman, 12 WR, 10 WD, 10 GR, 10 WW, 5 Dryads, 5 WhR, 6 Tk, Altar of Khaine
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Treeman, 10 WD, dragon lord, Alter, 9 WhR, 5 GR, DE sin, OK Butcher, Beast heroes x5
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Re: Alter Highborn ( close combat version )

Postby Kulgan86 » 09 May 2011, 14:49

Jumping on my topic.

Taking in account some of the advice givven in this and other topics:

Alter Highborn
GW, LA & Shield
Amaranthine Brooch
Annoyance of Netlings
Helm of The Hunt


Basically the AoN protects against characters' magical weaponry and the Brooch provides a 3+ ward against anything non magical. The Helm for the 4+ As vs shooting and the extra attack. The extra WS also might come in handy when trying to assasinate Lord level combat models.

20 points left of allowance for an enchanted item only! Talisman and armour are taken.
*Potion of Strength comes into mind to tackle the huge thoughness opponents ( Sfinx etc ) or to nullify a -1 armour save. Or you could use handweapon and shield for a 4+ armour save and still have a round of S7 attacks.
*Potion of Thoughness also would have it's merits.
*Potion of Foolhardiness for 7 S7 WS8 attacks on the charge :thumbsup:
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Re: Alter Highborn ( close combat version )

Postby unicorn » 09 May 2011, 16:56

If you are looking for something like this, what about:
Alter highborne, shield, LA
sword of bloodshell, HotH, potion of strength

8 S4 attacks normally, 9 on charge, S7 if you use the potion..? ;) Plus can be healed by lifeweaver and can have 4+ ward for staying close to infantry units...
Unicorn's conversions (updated 1st Jun)
Painted
BSB, mounted noble, WD noble, Branchie, Alter, Treeman, 12 WR, 10 WD, 10 GR, 10 WW, 5 Dryads, 5 WhR, 6 Tk, Altar of Khaine
Finished
Treeman, 10 WD, dragon lord, Alter, 9 WhR, 5 GR, DE sin, OK Butcher, Beast heroes x5
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Re: Alter Highborn ( close combat version )

Postby Kulgan86 » 09 May 2011, 17:49

That would be a good alternative. Although I'm wondering if the ASF sword ( sword of swift slaying ) wouldn't be a better bargain?
9 attack would net 6 hits
6 re rollable attacks would net 5.33 hits

Bloodshed costs 60 while swift slaying is only 25. I'd definatly argue the SoSS is a better choice! not to mention that it's ' safer ' to work with 6 re rollable dice then with 9 normal rolls.
Also when fighting against High Elves you'd be striking simultaniously. You'd loose the re rolls though.

The deal if you go without GW but with potion of strength is you're only ever taking out a single ' though' target.
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Re: Alter Highborn ( close combat version )

Postby Caitsidhe » 09 May 2011, 18:26

My issue with "building the perfect beast" is the Alter Highborn is rarely worth his points. He is like a goose being fattened up for Xmas. :) The only way to make him earn his keep is managed to tie up a unit and then get the Alter in in a Flank or Rear charge. It doesn't matter how nasty you make him, he does not survive/win fights alone against a unit. Ranks and so on cause him to lose and sheer volume of fire (close combat or range) will overwhelm him. The only time I use the Alter Noble is when I know I'm stuck up against a army with ridiculous amounts of Armor against which I don't have much ranged options. The Bow of Loren combined with Arcane Bodkins can be helpful then. Even in this situation it is always a close thing.
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Re: Alter Highborn ( close combat version )

Postby unicorn » 09 May 2011, 18:41

Caitsidhe wrote:The only time I use the Alter Noble is when I know I'm stuck up against a army with ridiculous amounts of Armor against which I don't have much ranged options.

Personally, I am not using alters now, tough I am regulary running noble on he horse, GW, LA, Sh, HotH and rebirth stone.
He have vanguard, h have swiftstride, he is awesome in taking down the warmashines and he is awesome for givving me some static CR (charge+back into ongoing combat), while his surviveability is pretty decent (4+ as/3- vs shooting, 2+ ward on last wound..?) and he even can tie some deadly characters to challenges to render them useless for a round or two. Plus, he is immune to (thunder)stomp.
Yeah, I like this character :)
Unicorn's conversions (updated 1st Jun)
Painted
BSB, mounted noble, WD noble, Branchie, Alter, Treeman, 12 WR, 10 WD, 10 GR, 10 WW, 5 Dryads, 5 WhR, 6 Tk, Altar of Khaine
Finished
Treeman, 10 WD, dragon lord, Alter, 9 WhR, 5 GR, DE sin, OK Butcher, Beast heroes x5
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Re: Alter Highborn ( close combat version )

Postby Elindar » 09 May 2011, 21:59

Personally, I am not using alters now, tough I am regulary running noble on he horse, GW, LA, Sh, HotH and rebirth stone.
He have vanguard, h have swiftstride, he is awesome in taking down the warmashines and he is awesome for givving me some static CR (charge+back into ongoing combat), while his surviveability is pretty decent (4+ as/3- vs shooting, 2+ ward on last wound..?) and he even can tie some deadly characters to challenges to render them useless for a round or two. Plus, he is immune to (thunder)stomp.
Yeah, I like this character :)

Played alone this character Unicorn? Or with a little unit of GR as delivery system, giving him some extra wounds?
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Re: Alter Highborn ( close combat version )

Postby Caitsidhe » 09 May 2011, 22:02

unicorn wrote:
Caitsidhe wrote:The only time I use the Alter Noble is when I know I'm stuck up against a army with ridiculous amounts of Armor against which I don't have much ranged options.

Personally, I am not using alters now, tough I am regulary running noble on he horse, GW, LA, Sh, HotH and rebirth stone.
He have vanguard, h have swiftstride, he is awesome in taking down the warmashines and he is awesome for givving me some static CR (charge+back into ongoing combat), while his surviveability is pretty decent (4+ as/3- vs shooting, 2+ ward on last wound..?) and he even can tie some deadly characters to challenges to render them useless for a round or two. Plus, he is immune to (thunder)stomp.
Yeah, I like this character :)


Same here. I've been running Wild Rider Nobles to great effect. I generally don't kit any individual out with much but rather bolster the whole unit they are bunkered inside. I can't do a Highborn because I have been running two Spellweavers.
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Re: Alter Highborn ( close combat version )

Postby unicorn » 09 May 2011, 22:16

Elindar wrote:Played alone this character Unicorn? Or with a little unit of GR as delivery system, giving him some extra wounds?

Completely alone. He is decently cheap, have nice survivability, is great for WM hunting, and his CR bonuses / reform deny won me more combats that I can count.
Unicorn's conversions (updated 1st Jun)
Painted
BSB, mounted noble, WD noble, Branchie, Alter, Treeman, 12 WR, 10 WD, 10 GR, 10 WW, 5 Dryads, 5 WhR, 6 Tk, Altar of Khaine
Finished
Treeman, 10 WD, dragon lord, Alter, 9 WhR, 5 GR, DE sin, OK Butcher, Beast heroes x5
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Re: Alter Highborn ( close combat version )

Postby Elindar » 10 May 2011, 07:26

unicorn wrote:Completely alone. He is decently cheap, have nice survivability, is great for WM hunting, and his CR bonuses / reform deny won me more combats that I can count.

And putting him on a great eagle for the extra wound and the stomp? You're more expensive, loose vanguard, but more powerful, faster and tough.
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Re: Alter Highborn ( close combat version )

Postby unicorn » 10 May 2011, 10:01

Elindar wrote:
unicorn wrote:Completely alone. He is decently cheap, have nice survivability, is great for WM hunting, and his CR bonuses / reform deny won me more combats that I can count.

And putting him on a great eagle for the extra wound and the stomp? You're more expensive, loose vanguard, but more powerful, faster and tough.

For this, I have lone eagles. They can do the some, and/or they can combocharge with this character.
That noble is good because he have the vanguard and I do not wish to loose it. Also, one more wound will not help that much (as your main protection is rebirth). Also, he is there for killing WMs (and against them, Stomp is useless) and for generating static CR.

For me that additional cost is not worth it.
Unicorn's conversions (updated 1st Jun)
Painted
BSB, mounted noble, WD noble, Branchie, Alter, Treeman, 12 WR, 10 WD, 10 GR, 10 WW, 5 Dryads, 5 WhR, 6 Tk, Altar of Khaine
Finished
Treeman, 10 WD, dragon lord, Alter, 9 WhR, 5 GR, DE sin, OK Butcher, Beast heroes x5
unicorn
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