Wardancer Uses

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Mc_Julio
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Re: Wardancer Uses

Post by Mc_Julio »

I support them with a Lvl 3 Life and the Ryhmer's Harp on a Unicorn.
Wouhou...You do not play neither against empire nore dwarf, TK, O&G, KO in your area? One canon shoot and "see ya Lvl3" :tear:
For the price of the base Wardancer unit and it characters with no items or armor, which is 642 points I can have 9.8 Treekin. I would venture a guess that 27 strength 5 attacks will 9 stomps is going to do more damage to the enemy than 14 wardancers with 2 heroes and a lord with Storm of Blades total of 28 strength 3 attacks and 11 strength 4 attacks. if you go to 10 Treekin for a total of 650 points, they are doing one less attack than the Wardancers the first turn. After that the numbers go up for the Treekin.
In the PA of a troup you do not just pay the number of A of strength xxx, in your theory you do not include, many rules benefiting to WD (skirmishers, tatoos, KB, MR, etc...).
with no items or armor
That's one of the other good points for WD, you cannot ignore this option in your statement :)

I'm just back from the tournament, 4W and 1L...in final against demons :D (skavens, ogres, HE and DE in the 4 other games). I finish 3rd in the end (on 30, ok not so big but quite good players).

No treekin, no treemen, GLORY WARDANCERS
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Tachunka
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Re: Wardancer Uses

Post by Tachunka »

Congratulations on doing so well. I won my little tournament with no wardancers and the Treekin were the difference. I guess it is just an issue of play style.
Mc_Julio
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Re: Wardancer Uses

Post by Mc_Julio »

Yep, indeed. Well done too ;)

By the way, what were your adversaries? how many games did you play ?
JTWatto
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Re: Wardancer Uses

Post by JTWatto »

This is coming from a relatively new player so might not be very founded. But in the last few games i've played i've run a wd highborn in a unit of 9 wardancers. Give the highborn the blades of loec, aon and moonstone. Put my wardancers in my free forest during deployment then on the first turn jump them across the board and charge into combat on my turn. Last time i used this the wardancers went into the back of da immortulz. Grimgor of course challenged but opponent didn't like finding out he was only hitting on 6s and i had killing blow with re-rollable wounds. Grimgor died and da immortulz lost there entire back rank and ran and were caught.

So yeah that's my wardancer story. My first turn they destroyed grimgor and his immortulz and lost nothing but one wound on the highborn.

P.s. If some of this doesn't seem right it's cause i'm working off memory lol
Last edited by JTWatto on 29 Apr 2011, 23:25, edited 1 time in total.
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unicorn
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Re: Wardancer Uses

Post by unicorn »

Tachunka wrote:For the price of the base Wardancer unit and it characters with no items or armor, which is 642 points I can have 9.8 Treekin. I would venture a guess that 27 strength 5 attacks will 9 stomps is going to do more damage to the enemy than 14 wardancers with 2 heroes and a lord with Storm of Blades total of 28 strength 3 attacks and 11 strength 4 attacks.
In fact, I can see some potential in this WD unit. It (and the reactions) reminds me somehow the 1st introduction of Sethayla at this site. Everyone states it is useless. It takes pretty long before people starts to realizing that the concept is pretty strong and that (with some tweaks) this "useless army which will be roflstomped by anyone" in fact is one of the most strongest competitive list WEs was able to field in 7th ed.
I am not saying it is similar with this roster. But I am saying I can see some potential behind it and I can imagine that with some practice and maybe few tweaks it can do very good in competitive environment.
Unicorn's conversions (updated 1st Jun)
Painted
BSB, mounted noble, WD noble, Branchie, Alter, Treeman, 12 WR, 10 WD, 10 GR, 10 WW, 5 Dryads, 5 WhR, 6 Tk, Altar of Khaine
Finished
Treeman, 10 WD, dragon lord, Alter, 9 WhR, 5 GR, DE sin, OK Butcher, Beast heroes x5
Kulgan86
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Re: Wardancer Uses

Post by Kulgan86 »

Out of curiosity, could you give a brief rundown of your Sethayla army in 7th?

Thanks pointy
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Caitsidhe
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Re: Wardancer Uses

Post by Caitsidhe »

unicorn wrote:
Tachunka wrote:For the price of the base Wardancer unit and it characters with no items or armor, which is 642 points I can have 9.8 Treekin. I would venture a guess that 27 strength 5 attacks will 9 stomps is going to do more damage to the enemy than 14 wardancers with 2 heroes and a lord with Storm of Blades total of 28 strength 3 attacks and 11 strength 4 attacks.
In fact, I can see some potential in this WD unit. It (and the reactions) reminds me somehow the 1st introduction of Sethayla at this site. Everyone states it is useless. It takes pretty long before people starts to realizing that the concept is pretty strong and that (with some tweaks) this "useless army which will be roflstomped by anyone" in fact is one of the most strongest competitive list WEs was able to field in 7th ed.
I am not saying it is similar with this roster. But I am saying I can see some potential behind it and I can imagine that with some practice and maybe few tweaks it can do very good in competitive environment.
I want to address this. I have a set of beautifully painted, based Wardancers. I have some Wardancer Noble type conversions. I tested the 8th Edition Wardancer Deathstar at length before I was willing to give up the ghost on them. Can they hit hard? Sure. How easy is it to get them into combat? It is difficult. What makes this approach uncompetitive? They are a small, fragile unit worth an incredible amount of points. They telegraph threat and worth. The only way to give them a fighting chance is to put the Rhymer's Harp in there and every other upgrade you can. Their STR-3 is devastating because Dwellers lands on them quite often and bypasses all the expensive defenses you put up. They are very vulnerable to sustained ranged attacks.

I know this sounds ironic coming from someone using a supercharged Wild Riders unit at the current time, but there is an important difference. The Wild Riders have enough speed that you have a fighting chance at getting them into combat before the unit is hobbled. They also get Ranks. Even so, I consider the Wild Rider unit a gamble. I consider the War Dancers competitive suicide against good players. The only hope you have is getting into combat and staying in combat as long as possible. At issue is the fact that they just aren't fast enough. The Skirmish designation also hurts them.
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unicorn
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Re: Wardancer Uses

Post by unicorn »

Kulgan86 wrote:Out of curiosity, could you give a brief rundown of your Sethayla army in 7th?
Try THIS :)
Unicorn's conversions (updated 1st Jun)
Painted
BSB, mounted noble, WD noble, Branchie, Alter, Treeman, 12 WR, 10 WD, 10 GR, 10 WW, 5 Dryads, 5 WhR, 6 Tk, Altar of Khaine
Finished
Treeman, 10 WD, dragon lord, Alter, 9 WhR, 5 GR, DE sin, OK Butcher, Beast heroes x5
Mc_Julio
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Re: Wardancer Uses

Post by Mc_Julio »

They are a small, fragile unit worth an incredible amount of points.
15 WD + 5 characters is not that small to my mind...
The only way to give them a fighting chance is to put the Rhymer's Harp in there and every other upgrade you can.
True
Their STR-3 is devastating because Dwellers lands on them quite often and bypasses all the expensive defenses you put up.
With lore of beast you can easily cast the signature spell for +1S, your characters with S5 are more or less safe and then you've got S4 with the rest. You can have a scroll also, and then you'r fighting so even if dwellers is really dangerous, it is the only spell (with 13th spell) that can menace this unit.
The Wild Riders have enough speed that you have a fighting chance at getting them into combat before the unit is hobbled
WD are easyer to hide behind dryads against shooting, the skirmisher rule is also very usefull, no really to my mind they are not SLOW at all even if ok they are slower than WR.
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unicorn
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Re: Wardancer Uses

Post by unicorn »

Mc_Julio wrote:even if dwellers is really dangerous, it is the only spell (with 13th spell) that can menace this unit.
Ok, so that is one spell (dwellers), 2nd spell (13th), then 3rd spell (Gateway)... 4th is Ecstatic seizure, 5th is Bad Moon, 6th is transformation of kadon, 7th is Plague... You are not immune to magic ;) And certain spells can take this unit down damn quickly, no matter what.
Not saying the unit is bad. Just saying there is much more that 1 spell you should be afraid of.
Unicorn's conversions (updated 1st Jun)
Painted
BSB, mounted noble, WD noble, Branchie, Alter, Treeman, 12 WR, 10 WD, 10 GR, 10 WW, 5 Dryads, 5 WhR, 6 Tk, Altar of Khaine
Finished
Treeman, 10 WD, dragon lord, Alter, 9 WhR, 5 GR, DE sin, OK Butcher, Beast heroes x5
Mc_Julio
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Re: Wardancer Uses

Post by Mc_Julio »

Ok, so that is one spell (dwellers), 2nd spell (13th), then 3rd spell (Gateway)... 4th is Ecstatic seizure, 5th is Bad Moon, 6th is transformation of kadon, 7th is Plague... You are not immune to magic ;) And certain spells can take this unit down damn quickly, no matter what.
Not saying the unit is bad. Just saying there is much more that 1 spell you should be afraid of.
With MR3? 2+ ward against magic...
So only the spells denying ward saves are dangerous, and most of them we can dodge (purple sun,etc...).
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unicorn
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Re: Wardancer Uses

Post by unicorn »

Mc_Julio wrote:With MR3? 2+ ward against magic...
So only the spells denying ward saves are dangerous, and most of them we can dodge (purple sun,etc...).
Yeah, correctly. Lets see...
Dwellers? No wards, check.
13th spell? No wards, check.
Gateway on 11-12? No wards, check.
Ecstatic seizure? No wards, check.
Bad moon? Only no armor, my bad, remember it wrong. My bad.
Transformation of kadon? No MR, check. ;)
Plague? Not 100 % sure out of my head, but may be that it takes out only armor. Ok.

Still, 5 out of 7 spells. Plus all augments / hexes like Mindrazor, which will make your unit fall damn fast cause of stat changes. Bud yep, Purple sun is not dangerous for this unit. True ;)
Unicorn's conversions (updated 1st Jun)
Painted
BSB, mounted noble, WD noble, Branchie, Alter, Treeman, 12 WR, 10 WD, 10 GR, 10 WW, 5 Dryads, 5 WhR, 6 Tk, Altar of Khaine
Finished
Treeman, 10 WD, dragon lord, Alter, 9 WhR, 5 GR, DE sin, OK Butcher, Beast heroes x5
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Re: Wardancer Uses

Post by Mc_Julio »

Indeed plague only ignores AS.
Moreover, I don(t know in your area, but in mine some tournaments starts to introduce special rules for magic phases, like the right to the "look out sir" rule for all those spells (13th, dwellers, gateway etc...).
Against transformation you just issue a challenge with the champion and then dispell it during your phase...

I'm ok to say that it is not the best resistance ever but it is far better than the raw magic defence you can have in other armies (appart from dispell scroll, spell killer or any wand you can have on your magics).
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unicorn
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Re: Wardancer Uses

Post by unicorn »

Mc_Julio wrote:Against transformation you just issue a challenge with the champion and then dispell it during your phase...
yeah. And unless he is pretty stupid, he will accept with his one ;)
And yep, you will dispell it for sure. But not before most of your unit will disappear ;)

No, really, this is one of the nice things on 8th ed. It supports big, killy (and/or though) units. And at the some time, it gives you enough options how to counter them.
Unicorn's conversions (updated 1st Jun)
Painted
BSB, mounted noble, WD noble, Branchie, Alter, Treeman, 12 WR, 10 WD, 10 GR, 10 WW, 5 Dryads, 5 WhR, 6 Tk, Altar of Khaine
Finished
Treeman, 10 WD, dragon lord, Alter, 9 WhR, 5 GR, DE sin, OK Butcher, Beast heroes x5
Mc_Julio
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Re: Wardancer Uses

Post by Mc_Julio »

yeah. And unless he is pretty stupid, he will accept with his one ;)
And yep, you will dispell it for sure. But not before most of your unit will disappear
Most of the time when I see the transformation it is on a single model with power scroll charging alone to destroy a unit…
More over if the adversarie does not have the mountain chimera model…he can't cast the spell ahaha ^^
No, really, this is one of the nice things on 8th ed. It supports big, killy (and/or though) units. And at the some time, it gives you enough options how to counter them.
Indeed :)
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unicorn
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Re: Wardancer Uses

Post by unicorn »

Mc_Julio wrote:Most of the time when I see the transformation it is on a single model with power scroll charging alone to destroy a unit…
Wow, realy? I never saw Kadon casted by character who was not in the unit (and usually it is the VC lord with more attacks per wounds caused in the unit of Guard with hatered banner). Interesting to see how much the overall strategies can differ.
More over if the adversarie does not have the mountain chimera model…he can't cast the spell ahaha ^^
:D
Unicorn's conversions (updated 1st Jun)
Painted
BSB, mounted noble, WD noble, Branchie, Alter, Treeman, 12 WR, 10 WD, 10 GR, 10 WW, 5 Dryads, 5 WhR, 6 Tk, Altar of Khaine
Finished
Treeman, 10 WD, dragon lord, Alter, 9 WhR, 5 GR, DE sin, OK Butcher, Beast heroes x5
Mc_Julio
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Re: Wardancer Uses

Post by Mc_Julio »

I guess it depends of the area where you play ^^
around here it is for example a vampire with M9 charging you alone from a troop, then during the magic phase TADAM =>chimera.
It is really less risky because of the miscast. Can you imagine if you miscast with your vampire lord, and then he dies... :cry:
And if he is inside a unit nearly any miscast result can do harsh damages to the squad…And it is little points in case you miss your action (if you do not succeed your spell, or die after the dispell the next turn) it costs you a bit less than 200..

By the way, to restart the topic, what do you think, in a death star WD unit, of a BSB with the rebirth stone, a potion of speed and the 10pts weapons making flaming attacks? Instead of the razor banner (very effective in the unit but the Bsb often dies after some fighting). It could allow to make some fights easyer and less deadly for the WD (like against an hydra, HPA or the regenerating crypt guards...).
I've got a tournament soon, with some restrictions and specific scenaries (where sometimes it is crucial to keep your BsB)
Your opinion?
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popisdead
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Re: Wardancer Uses

Post by popisdead »

unicorn wrote:(and usually it is the VC lord with more attacks per wounds caused in the unit of Guard with hatered banner).
Or a Bray-shaman in a unit of Bestigors to gain Flaming attacks and Hatred :sexy:
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unicorn
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Re: Wardancer Uses

Post by unicorn »

popisdead wrote:
unicorn wrote:(and usually it is the VC lord with more attacks per wounds caused in the unit of Guard with hatered banner).
Or a Bray-shaman in a unit of Bestigors to gain Flaming attacks and Hatred :sexy:
Yea, almost foget this one.
Maybe cause the VC lord is bigger headache for me :(
Unicorn's conversions (updated 1st Jun)
Painted
BSB, mounted noble, WD noble, Branchie, Alter, Treeman, 12 WR, 10 WD, 10 GR, 10 WW, 5 Dryads, 5 WhR, 6 Tk, Altar of Khaine
Finished
Treeman, 10 WD, dragon lord, Alter, 9 WhR, 5 GR, DE sin, OK Butcher, Beast heroes x5
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popisdead
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Re: Wardancer Uses

Post by popisdead »

Yeah I have an upcoming battle (with my beasts) against Undead. But his build is known and kinda silly. He bought the regen banner,.. ?!?!!?! Who pays points for regen in 8th ed???
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unicorn
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Re: Wardancer Uses

Post by unicorn »

popisdead wrote:Who pays points for regen in 8th ed???
Vapires loves it. Especially if they have unit with BSB and lord with Kadon ;)
Unicorn's conversions (updated 1st Jun)
Painted
BSB, mounted noble, WD noble, Branchie, Alter, Treeman, 12 WR, 10 WD, 10 GR, 10 WW, 5 Dryads, 5 WhR, 6 Tk, Altar of Khaine
Finished
Treeman, 10 WD, dragon lord, Alter, 9 WhR, 5 GR, DE sin, OK Butcher, Beast heroes x5
Mc_Julio
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Re: Wardancer Uses

Post by Mc_Julio »

He bought the regen banner,.. ?!?!!?! Who pays points for regen in 8th ed
More or less all the VC players playing 30 crypt guards with 2HW and one or 2 heroes inside (with 2+ward against fire :D ).
Kulgan86
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Re: Wardancer Uses

Post by Kulgan86 »

They're called Grave Guard, to not confuse people...
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popisdead
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Re: Wardancer Uses

Post by popisdead »

I guess I just expect everyone to have the fireball ring and a flaming banner that I view paying for regen totally useless.

And then since I have the Blackened Plate, I always hope I'm right about that flaming banner on my opponents units ;-)
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Overmind
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Re: Wardancer Uses

Post by Overmind »

Well it's been awhile since I've posted here... but since we're discussing wardancers I figured I might have something worth saying. for once.

I personally use a unit of wardancers in my army. Typically ten strong with champion and musician(musician because his model is one I own), though if points get tight I drop the champion. Now I'm one of the crazy people who don't field treekin(long story, they were initially one of the models that got me started on wood elves, but we've drifted apart since. *shrug*). I'm also not the most competitive person, I don't usually try to build the nastiest thing in the world. I tend to grab what I like and make it work somehow.

With all that rambling aside I've found my wardancers useful. They hit like a truck, or they get shot to death. However, with as much other squishy stuff as I have in the army... usually squishier than my wardancers, I don't mind to much. I'll pay 201pts in 2400 for a fire magnet. Stops my scouts, waywathcers, alter lord, wild riders(not the squishiest of course), and glade guard from getting hit as much. Typically I run my wardancers in support of my dryads. I don't care who gets there, so long as one of them do(not that I'd mind both). I sometimes give the wardancers regeneration if they're in range and I rolled the spell(I only run a level 3 with the wand of wych elm, I'm looking more to stop magic than cast, but that's just taste.)

Then again, in my area there isn't a lot of shooting. There isn't a scarcity of it, but it doesn't seem to be a focus. I probably have the second most shooting in the area(the highest goes to our local tomb king player, but he's looking at lowering the shots to get more bodies).

So it could be just my focus, or perhaps a bit of my area factors in(though from what I've seen shooting is getting lesser, but not by enough to matter yet). However I usually get some use out of the wardancers, even just as slinking glade guard guardians(get close to they glade guard they charge you, or just stand in the way, depends). They can be shot off, but at least the way I run WE everything can, so I'm not certain that's a huge criticism. My priority for elimination or delaying will always be a bit focused on getting rid of chaff and shooters, but that's just my playstyle. I wanted that in an army so I picked up WE, I ran Sethyala(sp?) for quite a bit actually so I'm just a little looney perhaps. If I wanted to run monstrous infantry I'd grab Ogres(an army that tempts me), though I hear treekin are better...
My dream for 8th ed Wood Elves: Less need to use Trees, elves get better, less need for me to have a Lord Mage. Not the most realistic, but hey we've got to have wishlists eh?

ALL HAIL TREE MAMMOTH!
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