Three Way Elf battle-Advice wanted

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Three Way Elf battle-Advice wanted

Postby Unendil » 04 May 2010, 16:29

The title says it all...I will be facing both of our brethren on the battlefield and I am at aloss as to what to take, it is a 2250 pt battle.
I like the way Sethayla lists perform at the moment but I think if there is anyone who can counter that style it is other elves...I know I want to take some wardancers because of the abilities they have against ASF and killing blow shots will help....but not sure on the character builds the normal highborn, caddy, noble, branchwraith set up seems to lack the magic defense I will need...oh well..any ideas?...has anyone done this before?....what worked? what didn't?
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Re: Three Way Elf battle-Advice wanted

Postby Splintercell » 04 May 2010, 16:36

As you said, magic is a strong point for both armies, so having a set up and strategy to mitigate that will be important.

Why do you think Sethayla would be particularly countered by other elves? From a maneuverability standpoint, I could see why. Superiority in the movement phase would be dependent on how mobile they make their army. BUT, one thing the sethayla list has going for it, concerning other elves, is that elves have low toughness, which means that shooting has much more viability against most troops. Of course, there may be some knights and whatnot that have high armor, but we have tools to get through it.

However, I am at a loss for what would be most wise concerning character choices. Not sure whether it would be worth building up pure magic defense at the cost of nobles. BUT...possibly having some sniping characters could work --> since both armies are likely to have mages.
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Re: Three Way Elf battle-Advice wanted

Postby Unendil » 04 May 2010, 17:05

I see your point on the low toughness...I like it...I was thinking from a manueverability standpoint. and the relatively "weak" magic of Sethayla this is my opinion however and I am not that experienced with this type of list. I like the tactics it exemplifies though...and a few snipers might be a good idea...in general I am most worried about the magic phase and I have little trust in sniper characters...it seems to be a hit or miss tactic...
I am thinking an army build that includes magic resistance ie wardancers and wild riders, killing blow from some waywatchers (and wardancers) a treeman for fun (thoughts on an Ancient perhaps)...A glade rider element from Seth style...possibly an eagle mounted character....I love alters so I am thinking there may have to be one....but a lvl 4 with a lvl 2 buddy or maybe a wraith with a unit of dryads...not sure...so keep the good advice coming
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Re: Three Way Elf battle-Advice wanted

Postby Lord Kor-Taq » 04 May 2010, 17:16

the high and dark elves will be hungry for blood, so let them have it,. wait, and let them wipe each other out, then kill the survivors.
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Re: Three Way Elf battle-Advice wanted

Postby Knight Errant » 04 May 2010, 17:33

I would go L3 w/ WoWE, scroll caddy, alter, and L1 branchie - that should give you enough magic defense for them as long as they don't gang up.

Skirmishing troops will have a big advantage since both HE/DE have those dang bolt throwers - so I would go w/ dryads and WDs. Fill it out w/ a few units of GG and GR. Waywatchers would be even more effective in this game due to T3 opponents, but you may not be able to deploy them to your advantage.

Sounds like a fun game - what kind of table are you going to use?
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Re: Three Way Elf battle-Advice wanted

Postby Tethlis » 04 May 2010, 17:54

3-way games are almost always a bad idea, in my experience, because the fights rarely end up being satisfying. If you sit back and do nothing, you can sweep in late to wipe your depleted opponents. You can also get ganged up on by the other two and destroyed. Alternately, everyone could sit back and do nothing because they're waiting for the other two to make a move.

If you're going for it though, I think that Sethayla could serve nicely if you have the models and some familiarity with the playstyle. 30 inch range is a huge advantage over our other brethren, and Sethayla's mobile enough to pick your fights and avoid being trapped if both opponents decide to go for you.

Also, get that Treesinging phase going. Since the direct-damage component of the spell has infinite range, you can really own the forests across the table. Treesinging would also be good for slowing down the regimental troops and heavy cavalry of both armies.
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Re: Three Way Elf battle-Advice wanted

Postby Unendil » 04 May 2010, 18:56

I agree that three way battles are not that fun but when there is only three people that all want to play what are you going to do, all elves seems like the right thing to do under the circumstances, not sure on the table....thanks for the advice so far...
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Re: Three Way Elf battle-Advice wanted

Postby Unendil » 04 May 2010, 20:28

list idea so far...
Spellweaver
General, Level 3, Wand of Wych Elm, Dispel Scroll
Alter Noble
Great Weapon, Light Armour, Hail of Doom Arrow, Helm of the Hunt
Branchwraith
Level 1, Cluster of Radiants, Pageant of Skrikes
Spellsinger
Level 1, Dispel Scroll, Calaingor's Stave
8 Dryads
10 Glade Guard
Musician
10 Glade Guard
Musician
5 Glade Riders
Musician
6 Wardancers
Bladesinger
6 Wardancers
Bladesinger
7 Wild Riders
Wild Hunter, Standard, War Banner
10 Waywatchers
Treeman
2245
Casting Pool: 7
Dispel Pool: 7
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Re: Three Way Elf battle-Advice wanted

Postby Splintercell » 04 May 2010, 22:37

Ah, when I read the title, I automatically assumed it was one player vs. the other two.
Unendil wrote:but when there is only three people that all want to play what are you going to do

Well, you can do 2 on 1, and just take turns on who gets to field the one large army. Those games become interesting because it's "balanced" points-wise, but room for some serious tactics when teaming with others.
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Re: Three Way Elf battle-Advice wanted

Postby Unendil » 04 May 2010, 23:53

I dig the 2 on 1 idea what would you do 2250 on 1125 each...it kind of screws up the hero choices...doesn't it?
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Re: Three Way Elf battle-Advice wanted

Postby ArchMagosAlchemys » 04 May 2010, 23:58

Not if the 2250 is two 1125 armies fighting together.
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Re: Three Way Elf battle-Advice wanted

Postby Splintercell » 05 May 2010, 20:41

Well, it screws up the character options in the sense that the two 1125pt armies cannot legally have lord choices, only heroes. Also, even though two smaller armies can have a higher character total than the one large one, most people don't max character slots anyways. Put it into perspective though, it might actually balance out the game - the single team gets to have a lord (which could then have access to a dragon), while the double team can work together for a much more versatile and strategic force.

However, if the lord thing becomes an issue, you could easily make a house rule where one of the double-team players can have a lord, and restrict their total character allowance. I'm assuming these are friendly games?

Hope this helps.
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Re: Three Way Elf battle-Advice wanted

Postby Unendil » 05 May 2010, 21:33

Yes they are friendly games..and as much as I would want to try this out...the battle will still most likely be three equal size armies just because of the lord thing...I agree that it would probably even out given the hero offset...but it might be too much of a hassle...anyone have any advice on army build...that is my focus now
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Re: Three Way Elf battle-Advice wanted

Postby snowywlf » 05 May 2010, 23:54

If I may, how are you handling the technicalities of three different sides?

Magic for example. Who gets to dispel who? If you just go in standard turn order, then you'll have 1 normal set of power dice against 2 enemies, each with their own pool of dispel dice.

Just curious how you handle the 3-way thing. My friends and I are trying to figure something out, but we usually end up doing a 1500 vs 750+750 for simplicities sake.
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Re: Three Way Elf battle-Advice wanted

Postby ArchMagosAlchemys » 06 May 2010, 00:13

I played 3 x 1000 vs 3000. The two Blodthirsters alone practically won the battle. 9 Heroes (possibly) may not make up for two lords (on dragons, say)

My experience is that three-sided battles are rarely fun; there is too muct 2 0n 1.
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Re: Three Way Elf battle-Advice wanted

Postby Splintercell » 06 May 2010, 03:47

ArchMagosAlchemys wrote:9 Heroes (possibly) may not make up for two lords (on dragons, say)

Yeah, I guess in some situations it's comparing apples to oranges.

One thing you could do to balance characters for a game of two opponents - have the two smaller armies that are working together be given the same character allowance as the other player (the one with the 2250pt army), but SHARED between them. That is, between the two smaller armies, they can total up to 4 characters (with one as a lord). I think that could work really well. It merely circumvents the technicality of army size and character choice.

For example, if player 1 with the 1125pt army decides to have a lord and one other hero, then his partner can only have up to two heroes.

Maybe this could work?
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Re: Three Way Elf battle-Advice wanted

Postby ArchMagosAlchemys » 07 May 2010, 00:37

Or, as I suggested earlier, make the 2250 point army, two 1125 point armies. :D
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Re: Three Way Elf battle-Advice wanted

Postby Splintercell » 07 May 2010, 22:43

ArchMagosAlchemys wrote:Or, as I suggested earlier, make the 2250 point army, two 1125 point armies.

...Ohhhh now I get it. Hah, fascinating. That would, indeed, make perfect balance in terms of army composition.
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Re: Three Way Elf battle-Advice wanted

Postby Forest Primeval » 07 May 2010, 23:01

Unendil wrote:Yes they are friendly games..and as much as I would want to try this out...the battle will still most likely be three equal size armies just because of the lord thing...I agree that it would probably even out given the hero offset...but it might be too much of a hassle...

In that case, why not restrict the Lord choice in general? Simply match the number of heroes on each side; if the two 1125 lists have three total heroes, then the 2250 list may have no more than three heroes as well. Problem solved! :smirk:
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