Conga lining monsters
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- The Virgin Forest
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Conga lining monsters
Here's a litte trick, I'd never use, but it might be good to know for the more competitive minded - if only to be aware of your opponents sneaky tricks
A few of the newer monsters are quite nasty, and can cause obscene amounts of damage e.g. hydra/abomination. So here's a little trick to deal with them.
Run around them with a fast cav unit. Reform to single file, so you have a champion in front. Make a rear/flank charge.
The monster will at max generate 1 CR, as it can only hit the champ, while the fast cav will outnumber to negate that, and then win from its flank/rear bonus.
A few of the newer monsters are quite nasty, and can cause obscene amounts of damage e.g. hydra/abomination. So here's a little trick to deal with them.
Run around them with a fast cav unit. Reform to single file, so you have a champion in front. Make a rear/flank charge.
The monster will at max generate 1 CR, as it can only hit the champ, while the fast cav will outnumber to negate that, and then win from its flank/rear bonus.
– it is said that the apples of Athel Loren gain their deep red hue from the blood of its enemies soaking the ground.
- Finbulvetr
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Re: Conga lining monsters
Sneaky is the word
And a little hard to do, since most opponents will become suspicious if you reform your fast cavalry behind his/her hard hitters...
But if someone's so unsporty in fielding this smelly big guys, why shouldn't we be unsporty aswell?
However, what is the unit strength of hydra/abomination/varghulf/similar monsters?? You should be careful to outnumber these beasts to make this strategy work...FUnny to try, tough (and annoying )
Salut!
And a little hard to do, since most opponents will become suspicious if you reform your fast cavalry behind his/her hard hitters...
But if someone's so unsporty in fielding this smelly big guys, why shouldn't we be unsporty aswell?
However, what is the unit strength of hydra/abomination/varghulf/similar monsters?? You should be careful to outnumber these beasts to make this strategy work...FUnny to try, tough (and annoying )
Salut!
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- The Virgin Forest
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Re: Conga lining monsters
Consider magic movement.
Dire wolves in particular would be wellsuited for this - not that the VC lacks in the nasty department
Dire wolves in particular would be wellsuited for this - not that the VC lacks in the nasty department
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- Tethlis
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Re: Conga lining monsters
That's where I first heard about this. The nature of raising (champs come back, in close combat with the enemy) means that they can keep this going every turn, providing they manage to raise the champ back.The Virgin Forest wrote:Consider magic movement.
Dire wolves in particular would be wellsuited for this - not that the VC lacks in the nasty department
Re: Conga lining monsters
But it is also a (questionable) tactic well suited for woodelves, because we don't have many tarpit units, and we lack strength and durability to take on the big nasties. Great for GR once your opponent has stopped caring about them. 'Suddenly they come with 6 models and a champion, why is that?' 'Oh, you'll see...'
- Tribun
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Re: Conga lining monsters
Imho conga in all it's variations is the lowest and ugliest form of playing warhammer. I will never understand, why some guys are willing to use every bit of rule nonsence, to win and kill everything what is nice in this game: the simulation of a fantasybattle like in our favourit movies!
- Finbulvetr
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Re: Conga lining monsters
Well, sometimes, the faces people could play when you give a bloody nose to what they think is going to be your doom it's just priceless...
This kind of seriously sneaky tactics are perfect for games with your buddys (just once )...I'll always remember the day I kept my pal's blood knights running behind an eagle for the entire game...the guy wanted to punch me after the game, and we started sort of a brawl, only to end few hours later, laughing at a pub and thinking on our mutual naiveness
That's IMO what's nice on this game...
Anyway, "conga" tactic on itself it's not decent,as stated before, no matter how effective...Or at least,as undecent as the things we have to face
Salut!
This kind of seriously sneaky tactics are perfect for games with your buddys (just once )...I'll always remember the day I kept my pal's blood knights running behind an eagle for the entire game...the guy wanted to punch me after the game, and we started sort of a brawl, only to end few hours later, laughing at a pub and thinking on our mutual naiveness
That's IMO what's nice on this game...
Anyway, "conga" tactic on itself it's not decent,as stated before, no matter how effective...Or at least,as undecent as the things we have to face
Salut!
And how alive though it seems
I was there in my dreams.
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- The Virgin Forest
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Re: Conga lining monsters
for some people WFB is sadly nothing but a game with mechanics to be exploited. Luckily we are free to choose our opponentsTribun wrote:Imho conga in all it's variations is the lowest and ugliest form of playing warhammer. I will never understand, why some guys are willing to use every bit of rule nonsence, to win and kill everything what is nice in this game: the simulation of a fantasybattle like in our favourit movies!
– it is said that the apples of Athel Loren gain their deep red hue from the blood of its enemies soaking the ground.
- Tethlis
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Re: Conga lining monsters
So... Where exactly do you draw the line between good strategy and "abusing the rules?"
I would look at a conga-line as a smart use of game mechanics, rather than something to get violent about. If I sit down to play a game with someone, and they use valid and legal strategy to beat me, then I've been outplayed and need to do better next time. The things that get me worked up are questionable rule interpretations, and when players use a rule with no clear answer to their own advantage. The conga line is an example of using legal game rules to deal with a nasty threat. I do something similar all the time by putting a unit champion on the end of my cavalry formations, so if they get flanked only the champion can be killed and the rest of the unit is spared. Similarly, if someone wanted to get violent because I Frenzy-baited one of his units around the table, I'd tell him that this is a fairly common strategy and he should learn to protect his Frenzied units. There are plenty of list composition and rule interpretation issues that I think are over the top, but once the game actually starts and players are taking their turns, I say any strategy is valid as long as both players agree it's legal.
I would look at a conga-line as a smart use of game mechanics, rather than something to get violent about. If I sit down to play a game with someone, and they use valid and legal strategy to beat me, then I've been outplayed and need to do better next time. The things that get me worked up are questionable rule interpretations, and when players use a rule with no clear answer to their own advantage. The conga line is an example of using legal game rules to deal with a nasty threat. I do something similar all the time by putting a unit champion on the end of my cavalry formations, so if they get flanked only the champion can be killed and the rest of the unit is spared. Similarly, if someone wanted to get violent because I Frenzy-baited one of his units around the table, I'd tell him that this is a fairly common strategy and he should learn to protect his Frenzied units. There are plenty of list composition and rule interpretation issues that I think are over the top, but once the game actually starts and players are taking their turns, I say any strategy is valid as long as both players agree it's legal.
Re: Conga lining monsters
But still, when you abuse rules in such a manner that it breaks the illusion of a battle, and it just becomes silly, like breaking a unit by only getting your champ killed in a conga charge, or manoeuvre jump a unit through a forest, then IMO you drag the game down. A suicide flank charge, where to your surprise the champ alone steps up, valiantly sacrificing himself to delay your unit from charging the next round, would be something else. A heroic deed! Same with your champion protecting the flank, Tethlis, it's legal and fluffy, no problem.
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- Trusted Bowman
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Re: Conga lining monsters
Wouldn't the A-Bomb still be able to kill as many men as it's attacks?
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- ArchMagosAlchemys
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Re: Conga lining monsters
No. The casualties against the Champion, leading the unit, do not flow over to the rest of the models, and there can be no Overkill because the HPA cannot Challenge.
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Re: Conga lining monsters
Even better, if you pay a standar for the GR, you'll win the combat even attacking from the front.
A bit risky but interesting.
A bit risky but interesting.
Re: Conga lining monsters
Fortunately not, the standard has to be in the first rank to give its bonus to CR.
- The Virgin Forest
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Re: Conga lining monsters
You're right, conga-lining is a clever use of game mechanics.Tethlis wrote:I would look at a conga-line as a smart use of game mechanics, rather than something to get violent about. If I sit down to play a game with someone, and they use valid and legal strategy to beat me, then I've been outplayed and need to do better next time.
But when playing Warhammer, I play to have epic fantasy battles, the mechanics exist to support and create these. When the mechanics take on a life of their own, Warhammer loses its appeal and becomes just another boardgame little more than advanced checkers
Said in other words, a conga-liner plays games, where I like to play war
– it is said that the apples of Athel Loren gain their deep red hue from the blood of its enemies soaking the ground.
Re: Conga lining monsters
Can only the first model of the GR be killed? I thought the attacks went to the unit as a whole?
I dont quite understand
I dont quite understand
- Beithir Seun
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Re: Conga lining monsters
The first model in the line should be a champion; attacks against a champion (and therefore wounds also) do not carry over to the rest of the unit - any extra wounds will simply be wasted. That means that the monster can only kill one model (the champion) no matter how many wounds are caused.
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- ArchMagosAlchemys
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Re: Conga lining monsters
And the monster cannot challenge the Champion to get Overkill CR.
Airmeith: Healer of the Twisted Glade
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Burn the Heretic!
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Outside of a dog, a book is a man's best friend.
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Re: Conga lining monsters
aah, i see.
funny tactic
funny tactic
- JohnMavrick
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Re: Conga lining monsters
During the American Revolution the militia and at times the regular army began using gorilla tactics which proved to devistate the British forces. By refusing to line up and get mowed down by the highly diciplined British the Americans were able to gain victory through overwelming odds.
In today's battle field apposing armies no longer line up across a field and simply shoot at each other. Today countries across the globe use cover and concealment, leap frog tactics and the same monuvers which were once thought of as unsporting or underhanded.
In today's battle field apposing armies no longer line up across a field and simply shoot at each other. Today countries across the globe use cover and concealment, leap frog tactics and the same monuvers which were once thought of as unsporting or underhanded.
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- The Virgin Forest
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Re: Conga lining monsters
So americans have poor manners and are unsportsmanlike?
Winning isn't everything. How you do win, is far more important
Winning isn't everything. How you do win, is far more important
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- Salamander
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Re: Conga lining monsters
This ofcouse assumes speed roling...Beithir Seun wrote:The first model in the line should be a champion; attacks against a champion (and therefore wounds also) do not carry over to the rest of the unit - any extra wounds will simply be wasted. That means that the monster can only kill one model (the champion) no matter how many wounds are caused.
If you do the roling 1 attack at a time, this becomes void.. correct?
Re: Conga lining monsters
No, the champion is not a r'n'f trooper, and as such is not replaced. BRB page 76, on attacking char, monsters or champs: "...any excess wounds caused by those attacks are not carried over onto ordinary troopers...". But if you charge your conga line into a char or champ that can challenge your champ, then you have messed it up.Salamander wrote: If you do the roling 1 attack at a time, this becomes void.. correct?
Showing off their big, hairy chests, shaking trees and roaring to intimidate their opponents! (sorry...)JohnMavrick wrote:During the American Revolution the militia and at times the regular army began using gorilla tactics
Last edited by Herald on 11 Jan 2010, 19:37, edited 1 time in total.
- Beithir Seun
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Re: Conga lining monsters
No. Because the monster is only in contact with the champion, it cannot direct any attacks against rank-and-file. Even if the champion is killed with the first attack, the extra attacks do not carry over onto the rank-and-file models, and so the rank-and-file models cannot be killed.
If the monster was in contact with a single rank-and-file model, however, the wounds would carry over onto other rank-and-file models and it could kill as many rank-and-file models as it has attacks.
The key to this tactic is that the champion is the only model in contact, thereby preventing any damage being done to the rank-and-file models and thus limiting the amount of wounds caused by the monster to 1. It is also a one-trick pony, because once the champion is dead the rest of the unit is at the monster's mercy.
EDIT: Herald beat me to the punch
If the monster was in contact with a single rank-and-file model, however, the wounds would carry over onto other rank-and-file models and it could kill as many rank-and-file models as it has attacks.
The key to this tactic is that the champion is the only model in contact, thereby preventing any damage being done to the rank-and-file models and thus limiting the amount of wounds caused by the monster to 1. It is also a one-trick pony, because once the champion is dead the rest of the unit is at the monster's mercy.
EDIT: Herald beat me to the punch
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Re: Conga lining monsters
hehe, wow it seems that I've stepped on a few cheerful toes!
Well my point is that tactics are tactics and the game is about outmanuvering your apponent. If you get the drop on him perhaps he should protect his monsters better by putting a block and file troop near it for static combat resolution support.
And yes, we Americans love rattling trees and showing off our hairy chests
Well my point is that tactics are tactics and the game is about outmanuvering your apponent. If you get the drop on him perhaps he should protect his monsters better by putting a block and file troop near it for static combat resolution support.
And yes, we Americans love rattling trees and showing off our hairy chests
"...so matched they stood, for never would either like to meet so great a foe..."
John Milton 'Paradise Lost'
John Milton 'Paradise Lost'