Few questions after a game

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Kaese
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Few questions after a game

Post by Kaese »

Last night I played a game with lots of close combat. Few questions arose that we couldn't find a proper answer from the rulebook.

1. After the terrot check is passed, do you test again for fear in cc phase?

2. When charging into a fleeing unit, do you stop o the spot where you catch the fleeing unit or move the full charge distance?

3. A unit is charged and it decides to flee and runs past a friendly unit. Charging unit rolls enough to catch the fleeing unit but runs into the other unit before the fleeing unit is caught. Does the fleeing unit survive or not?

4. Does shooting at lone characters confer -1 to hit modifier?
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Re: Few questions after a game

Post by NonnoSte »

1. Yes indeed. It's also specified in the special rule section in the BRB. You test for fear at the start of each combat phase.

2. You stop in the spot where you catch the unit, as if you were pursuing after a failed break test.

3. If a fleeing unit gets in contact with another unit (friendly or enemy) or an impassable terrain, it jumps 1" behind it and it's automatically safe from the charge (DT or panic tests where needed) since the charging unit can't get over the interfering obstacle, but has to stop 1" before it. The charge is automatically failed unless you pass the Ld test to redirect the charge.
Actually this is the principle of the "double flee" technique.
Only exception is if you charge with a flying unit, which can jump over anything, but you have to roll high enough to get where the fleeing unit stopped.

4. It is true for any infantry model (only regular infantry) left alone, including last survivors of depleted units.
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Re: Few questions after a game

Post by Kaese »

Thanks. It looks like we played most of it right. Shooting at a lone character was the only one, as neither of us found any referance for this in the rulebook. Can you give me tha page number where this can be found?
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Re: Few questions after a game

Post by youngseward »

2. You pursue the full distance (per pg 57 of rulebook)

3. If the fleeing unit it blocked by an enemy unit, they aare not caught but the pursuing unit is in combat with the blocking unit. For impassable terrain/friendly units, the pursuers still dont catch the fleeing unit, and stop 1 inch away from the blocking object.
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Re: Few questions after a game

Post by Mollesvinet »

There is a difference between pursuing and charging into a fleeing unit. A pursue goes the entire distance, but a charge stops when you catch the enemy.
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Re: Few questions after a game

Post by youngseward »

Ah you are right sir. Misinterpreted that one.
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Re: Few questions after a game

Post by Phil Rossiter »

I guess because per pg 56, a fleeing unit that fails to roll higher than pursuers dies immediately, where it stands.

I believe the -1 to hit lone infantry models is a hangover from 7th. Don't think it made it into 8th.
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Re: Few questions after a game

Post by NonnoSte »

No Phil, it's still there. I'm not home ATM so I can't give pg. reference, but I know it's there.
youngseward wrote: 3. If the fleeing unit it blocked by an enemy unit, they aare not caught but the pursuing unit is in combat with the blocking unit. For impassable terrain/friendly units, the pursuers still dont catch the fleeing unit, and stop 1 inch away from the blocking object.
No, it's incorrect. To end in combat with a unit you must had declared a charge against that unit before in the turn, or it's treated like an impassable terrain. If you want to charge it, you must redirect.
Again, charging is different from pursuing or overrunning.
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Re: Few questions after a game

Post by Kaese »

Phil Rossiter wrote:I guess because per pg 56, a fleeing unit that fails to roll higher than pursuers dies immediately, where it stands.
This is how we also played the pursue. I don't think it makes sense, but can't really argue against the rulebook on this.

I tried to find something to back the -1 hit modifier on lone characters today but failed to find anything. At least there is nothimg on the shooting and character chapters. I wouldn't be surprised though if the rule is hidden somewhete else on the book.. :confused:
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Re: Few questions after a game

Post by Mollesvinet »

It was in the previous edition, doesn't exist anymore. Sorry
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Re: Few questions after a game

Post by Aezeal »

Last game we had this situation too.

2 units of GG one behind the other.
We played it like this:
Break test failed.
Roll flee distance. Roll pursue distance
Pursue >> flee so fleeing unit destroyed ("on the spot"_
Then he moved his pursuers the fleeing distance.. and ended up in the other unit (I didn't know the exact rules and had hoped my unit would be save behind my 2nd unit which he had to fight.. but he said the unit was destroyed.. I went along because it seemed logical (not having the rule like this seems abusable).

Did we play it correctly?

If not my general and spellweaver would still be alive (they where in the 2nd unit and got tied up because of the battle the ended up in (the weaver had intended to jump out of the GG the next turn).

http://asrai.org/viewtopic.php?f=45&t=28692 (WoC turn 4)
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Re: Few questions after a game

Post by NonnoSte »

Mollesvinet wrote:It was in the previous edition, doesn't exist anymore. Sorry
Wow, looks like I'm really a bit rusty on rules.
I remembered a paragraph about the difficulty of hitting lone models and all, but in the end it doesn't add anything about actual to-hit modifiers.
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Re: Few questions after a game

Post by Aezeal »

NonnoSte wrote:
Mollesvinet wrote:It was in the previous edition, doesn't exist anymore. Sorry
Wow, looks like I'm really a bit rusty on rules.
I remembered a paragraph about the difficulty of hitting lone models and all, but in the end it doesn't add anything about actual to-hit modifiers.
Now they book says characters are tempting targets and only between other models they are hard to hit (the LoS).
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Re: Few questions after a game

Post by Phil Rossiter »

Hi Aezeal you played it correctly.

If the pursuing unit rolls high enough to reach the next unit it must charge it. The only way to avoid this is pass the Ld test to avoid pursuing the original unit.
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Re: Few questions after a game

Post by youngseward »

NonnoSte wrote:No Phil, it's still there. I'm not home ATM so I can't give pg. reference, but I know it's there.
youngseward wrote: 3. If the fleeing unit it blocked by an enemy unit, they aare not caught but the pursuing unit is in combat with the blocking unit. For impassable terrain/friendly units, the pursuers still dont catch the fleeing unit, and stop 1 inch away from the blocking object.
No, it's incorrect. To end in combat with a unit you must had declared a charge against that unit before in the turn, or it's treated like an impassable terrain. If you want to charge it, you must redirect.
Again, charging is different from pursuing or overrunning.
I dunno mate that one seems more up in the air. I don't know how its usually played in tournaments and the like, but the rulebooks says that charging is the only way to get into close combat (pg16 im looking at), but it's pretty hazy on whether a charge can be completed against a non charged unit.

Etc comp faq doesn't mention it either
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Re: Few questions after a game

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youngseward wrote:
NonnoSte wrote:No Phil, it's still there. I'm not home ATM so I can't give pg. reference, but I know it's there.
youngseward wrote: 3. If the fleeing unit it blocked by an enemy unit, they aare not caught but the pursuing unit is in combat with the blocking unit. For impassable terrain/friendly units, the pursuers still dont catch the fleeing unit, and stop 1 inch away from the blocking object.
No, it's incorrect. To end in combat with a unit you must had declared a charge against that unit before in the turn, or it's treated like an impassable terrain. If you want to charge it, you must redirect.
Again, charging is different from pursuing or overrunning.
I dunno mate that one seems more up in the air. I don't know how its usually played in tournaments and the like, but the rulebooks says that charging is the only way to get into close combat (pg16 im looking at), but it's pretty hazy on whether a charge can be completed against a non charged unit.

Etc comp faq doesn't mention it either
If you declare a Charge against unit X and it flee's through unit Y, and you then do not redirect. You can never get into combat with unit Y. You can also never catch unit X.
If you were in combat with unit X and they break. You pursue and beat their roll they are dead. Even if they would flee through unit Y. You move your full pursuit roll and this can bring you into combat with unit Y.
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Re: Few questions after a game

Post by youngseward »

I've conferred with my gaming group on this, looks like I'm the only one who is thinking they should be in combat. So it appears Im wrong on every point I tried to make haha
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Re: Few questions after a game

Post by Phil Rossiter »

I've seen many strong players, years into this edition make bad rules calls.

GW don't make things easy.
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Re: Few questions after a game

Post by nXken »

I thought each unit makes only 1 Psychology-test per turn...
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Re: Few questions after a game

Post by Aezeal »

Phil Rossiter wrote:Hi Aezeal you played it correctly.

If the pursuing unit rolls high enough to reach the next unit it must charge it. The only way to avoid this is pass the Ld test to avoid pursuing the original unit.
Ow he certainly didn't mind being in combat with my last GG unit + spellweaver with his BSB with rerollable 1+ AS... I didn't like it though.
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Re: Few questions after a game

Post by Etheneus »

nXken wrote:I thought each unit makes only 1 Psychology-test per turn...
Yes but terror is made when the terror unit is charging thus in movement phase and fear in combat phase.
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Re: Few questions after a game

Post by nXken »

Thanks Etheneus
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Re: Few questions after a game

Post by Aezeal »

Ehm.. so is it once per turn or once per phase.. nXken may thank you.. but your reply isn't the same as his post it was replying on.

IMHO it's like this

1 panic test per phase (and terror causes a panic test on the charged unit).

AND

a fear test isn't a panic test anyway, just a leadership test.
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Re: Few questions after a game

Post by Ease »

What if the unit isn't fleeing from a charge? What if it is fleeing from a lost combat; can you still redirect your pursuit into another enemy unit?
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