Characters units and skirmishers rule

All questions about difficult rules in here; for both Asrai as well as other armies.

Moderator: Council of Elders

Locked
NonnoSte
Bladesinger
Bladesinger
Posts: 904
Joined: 07 Oct 2013, 14:59
Armies I play: All kind of Elves.
Location: Turin, Italy.

Characters units and skirmishers rule

Post by NonnoSte »

If I had a unit made all of characters (let's say Waystalkers or Shadowdancer), would they rank up normally since they don't have themselves the skirmisher special rule? Or am I missing something?
Aezeal
Wild Hunter
Wild Hunter
Posts: 1502
Joined: 22 Aug 2014, 13:54

Re: Characters units and skirmishers rule

Post by Aezeal »

Well if they don't have the special rule they don't have the special rule. A model cannot use a rule it doesn't have I'd say.
razorfate
Trusted Bowman
Trusted Bowman
Posts: 181
Joined: 07 Oct 2014, 18:50

Re: Characters units and skirmishers rule

Post by razorfate »

You must attach them to a skirmisher unit.
Aezeal
Wild Hunter
Wild Hunter
Posts: 1502
Joined: 22 Aug 2014, 13:54

Re: Characters units and skirmishers rule

Post by Aezeal »

I guess you mean that if you want them to have skirmishing you have to attach them to a skirmish unit.

I'm pretty sure the shadow dancer and waystalker do not HAVE to be attached to a skirmish unit.
User avatar
Kaese
Newcomer
Newcomer
Posts: 67
Joined: 17 Jan 2015, 19:00

Re: Characters units and skirmishers rule

Post by Kaese »

Why would anybody want to have a unit of characters only? Outside of combat it just seems like too expensive target for spells and shooting without any cannon fodder.. :confused:
Aezeal
Wild Hunter
Wild Hunter
Posts: 1502
Joined: 22 Aug 2014, 13:54

Re: Characters units and skirmishers rule

Post by Aezeal »

Kaese wrote:Why would anybody want to have a unit of characters only? Outside of combat it just seems like too expensive target for spells and shooting without any cannon fodder.. :confused:
Some one recently posted something with a 2 stags and 2 unicorns or something... not completely sure what the idea behind it was (didn't pay much attention since I have no stag or unicorn models :) )
There was something about characters leaving the unit and then later joining up again.. so moving like single characters with complete freedom of movement. I guess 1 MR items could help in the magic department but I guess it would indeed be rather vulnerable against shooting. Maybe there was more to it though.

I do wonder what the OP is planning though.
NonnoSte
Bladesinger
Bladesinger
Posts: 904
Joined: 07 Oct 2013, 14:59
Armies I play: All kind of Elves.
Location: Turin, Italy.

Re: Characters units and skirmishers rule

Post by NonnoSte »

Actually I'm not planning anything along these lines, but I was writing a list with a Beastweaver and several Shadowdancers (I know, an enormous sinkhole) and I just wondered how would have they acted if they were going to walk around as a single.unit and this brought me to think about a Waystalkers unit. Quite dangerous if boostable by Hand of Glory (yeah, another silly sinkhole).

It was just pure curiosity.
Aezeal
Wild Hunter
Wild Hunter
Posts: 1502
Joined: 22 Aug 2014, 13:54

Re: Characters units and skirmishers rule

Post by Aezeal »

If you plan on using shadow dancers why not go more branchwraiths.. the first dancer gives the negate ranks dance.. but after that wraiths are cheaper, about as tough and deal nearly as much damage... AND are life 1 as a bonus (if only for the channel). The magic upgrade on the shadow dancers is insanely high btw...160 for a level 1 mage :S
NonnoSte
Bladesinger
Bladesinger
Posts: 904
Joined: 07 Oct 2013, 14:59
Armies I play: All kind of Elves.
Location: Turin, Italy.

Re: Characters units and skirmishers rule

Post by NonnoSte »

Except for the 12 KB attacks at WS7 and I8 that three of them provide on a really small frontage and at the reasonable cost of 300 pts (they could stand some chance even against the immortal Disclord).

Having said this, it's definitely something I do NOT plan to try out.
Aezeal
Wild Hunter
Wild Hunter
Posts: 1502
Joined: 22 Aug 2014, 13:54

Re: Characters units and skirmishers rule

Post by Aezeal »

Hmm when you bring it like that :D they are character slayers. On the other hand some problems can only get killed by HKB (there should have been an item for them giving that!). In a comped army it might be worth it. I'd say it's a better investment than a 2nd lvl 4 :D. They just don't need to go against massed ranks so people can hit back. But a wraith there for an earthblood might be worth it too :D.
NonnoSte
Bladesinger
Bladesinger
Posts: 904
Joined: 07 Oct 2013, 14:59
Armies I play: All kind of Elves.
Location: Turin, Italy.

Re: Characters units and skirmishers rule

Post by NonnoSte »

they could stand some chance even against the immortal Disclord
Sorry, silly from me to suggest this.
They just can't take him out, unless a lot of luck since he will simply be forced to challenge them one at a time until he kills them all.
They could delay him for quite a while though and if I were the chaos player I would avoid all those KB like hell.
Aezeal
Wild Hunter
Wild Hunter
Posts: 1502
Joined: 22 Aug 2014, 13:54

Re: Characters units and skirmishers rule

Post by Aezeal »

Well even in a challenge 4 KB would have a.. (50% to hit?.. with reroll?) that leaves 2-3 to wound rolls.. so about 1/3-1/2 chance to kill him. Next turn no KB dance like that anymore but the 3++ dance might make the next WD survive.

But indeed it would be more a target for magic than to place your characters against.
NonnoSte
Bladesinger
Bladesinger
Posts: 904
Joined: 07 Oct 2013, 14:59
Armies I play: All kind of Elves.
Location: Turin, Italy.

Re: Characters units and skirmishers rule

Post by NonnoSte »

If he's the the tzeentch lord, you're hitting on rerollable 4+ an this means 50% of chance to have the KB which can now be saved on 3++ rerollable.
If he's the nurgle one, you hit on 5+ and it gets down to nearly 40% of chance to roll that 6, which is now saved on a standard 4++.
Both seem very unlikely.
User avatar
Kaese
Newcomer
Newcomer
Posts: 67
Joined: 17 Jan 2015, 19:00

Re: Characters units and skirmishers rule

Post by Kaese »

Other tricksters shard could be useful against those ward saves. Its only 15pts and could do wonders with killing blow. :)

How would this work with re-rollable ward saves?
Aezeal
Wild Hunter
Wild Hunter
Posts: 1502
Joined: 22 Aug 2014, 13:54

Re: Characters units and skirmishers rule

Post by Aezeal »

it's reroll 1's right?
So then everyroll except a 2 would be rerolled :D
NonnoSte
Bladesinger
Bladesinger
Posts: 904
Joined: 07 Oct 2013, 14:59
Armies I play: All kind of Elves.
Location: Turin, Italy.

Re: Characters units and skirmishers rule

Post by NonnoSte »

Usually it would save 78% of the wounds (3++ reroll 1s).
With OTS it goes down to 56%, so it's definitely a viable option.
Aezeal
Wild Hunter
Wild Hunter
Posts: 1502
Joined: 22 Aug 2014, 13:54

Re: Characters units and skirmishers rule

Post by Aezeal »

On the reroll for a 3++ (reroll of the OTS) you don't get another reroll for a 1. Maybe he meant that. Never rerolls on rerolls.
User avatar
Kaese
Newcomer
Newcomer
Posts: 67
Joined: 17 Jan 2015, 19:00

Re: Characters units and skirmishers rule

Post by Kaese »

So it is roughly 22.2% change to kill the tzeench disk lord with the other tricksters shard.

The bad thin is that the shard makes his role quite obvious so it seems unlikely to catch the disk. I would keep my distance if I were the chaos player. :confused:
Phil Rossiter
Wild Hunter
Wild Hunter
Posts: 1549
Joined: 05 Dec 2013, 13:02
Location: Britain

Re: Characters units and skirmishers rule

Post by Phil Rossiter »

I guess usually this works better with a unit to hide in (the multiple Waystalkers idea or Mollesvinet's Beasts+Shadowdancers for example). But the High Unicorn goes great with other characters at times for the Counters and in general a character unit can be a way of shielding one or building something that fights better. It's usually improvised at the table though, builds like MillingSkink's 4 MC unit are very unusual.
NonnoSte
Bladesinger
Bladesinger
Posts: 904
Joined: 07 Oct 2013, 14:59
Armies I play: All kind of Elves.
Location: Turin, Italy.

Re: Characters units and skirmishers rule

Post by NonnoSte »

Phil Rossiter wrote:I guess usually this works better with a unit to hide in (the multiple Waystalkers idea or Mollesvinet's Beasts+Shadowdancers for example).
You're probably right.
5 WD or 5 vanilla DWS to deploy them into look useful for a lot of reasons. Not last the Skirmishers special rule.

For.instance a boosted Doombolt turn1 can't kill them if they are hidden in at least 5 models of r'n'f.
Locked