Got FAQs for new book?

All questions about difficult rules in here; for both Asrai as well as other armies.

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cyranoinlondon
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Re: Got FAQs for new book?

Post by cyranoinlondon »

I don't want to disagree with anyone (especially as this is my first post) but..

Both choosing table edge and placing woods created by Acorn of the Ages are 'before deployment'. That doesn't tells us which of the two precedes the other. If the wording for Acorn said 'at the start of deployment', or 'immediately before deployment', it would be clear that placing the woods followed table edge choice. But it doesn't. So it needs clarification.

Thanks
C
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Re: Got FAQs for new book?

Post by godswearhats »

cyranoinlondon wrote:I don't want to disagree with anyone (especially as this is my first post) but..

Both choosing table edge and placing woods created by Acorn of the Ages are 'before deployment'. That doesn't tells us which of the two precedes the other. If the wording for Acorn said 'at the start of deployment', or 'immediately before deployment', it would be clear that placing the woods followed table edge choice. But it doesn't. So it needs clarification.

Thanks
C
Choosing table side is part of Deployment. Look under the 6 rule book scenarios and you'll see a big heading "Deployment" and usually the first line is Roll off to see which player picks the half of the table they will deploy in." A couple of the scenarios work differently, but they all have the roll-off as part of the deployment phase.

Hope this helps,
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Re: Got FAQs for new book?

Post by cyranoinlondon »

GWH - I think it does help and it is how I would expect it to be ruled (ie Acorn woods go down before you choose your side).

But Lassoto's reasoning (you can't deploy until you know which side of the table you are deploying on therefore side choosing precedes deployment and placement of the Acorn woods) is not completely specious.

If I was playing devil's advocate I would say that deployment = placing of troops. The heading 'Deployment' is just that - a heading not a rule- so should be ignored. The intent is to allow WE players a terrain advantage and if you have to place the woods before choosing sides that advantage is lost (particularly if you only get 1 Acorn wood) . Therefore the Acorn woods go down after side choosing.

If that's even a half-way respectable argument then a FAQ might be nice.

Regards
C
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Re: Got FAQs for new book?

Post by godswearhats »

“Each pitched battle contains the information you need to get set up and playing, broken down into the following categories: The Armies (this will normally be two armies of equal points values), The Battlefield, Deployment, First Turn, Game Length, Victory Conditions and Scenario Special Rules. This format governs all Warhammer scenarios – not just the ones found in this volume.


Excerpt From: Games Workshop. “Warhammer: Rulebook (Interactive Edition).” Games Workshop, 2013. iBooks. https://itunes.apple.com/us/book/warham ... 7568?mt=11

There is then a section for each of those items in bold, explaining the rules for each category. Under the section for Deployment in EVERY scenario is the line about rolling off for choosing table side, except for Meeting Engagement and Watchtower, in which have you roll of for corner selection and Watchtower control respectively. At no time are you allowed to choose side until you've started Deployment.

So, the flow for every battle is:

Step 1 - The Armies: Select your armies according to the rules in the scenario (usually two at equal points)

Step 2 - The Battlefield: Set up terrain as described for the scenario

Step 3 - Deployment: Roll off for choice of table side, etc.

... and so on

Given that the Acorns explicitly say that they are used BEFORE deployment, there is really no need for an official ruling from GW because there is actually no room for interpretation. Lassoto's reasoning is confusing the act of deploying with the rules category of Deployment.

~gwh
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Re: Got FAQs for new book?

Post by Domine Nox »

With Naestra and Arahan on Gwindalor they follow the rules for Monstrous Beast, since they also count as individuals they would each get it. So both Naestra and Arahan would go to T4 W3. It also means that Naestra's bow would heal herself and Arahan, since they are each using the mounts stat profile. A Cannon would still follow its rules of hitting both of them on Gwindalor, since it hits everyone. The only grey area I see with the Twins is BS shooting if they are on Ceithin-Har since the 5+ to hit the rider then begs the question... which rider? Controllers choice? So you can let one tank it, then come back the next phase?
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Re: Got FAQs for new book?

Post by Talonhawk »

Beithir Seun wrote:
Zimmonda wrote:Does forest strider let us have ranks/be steadfast in a forest?

No; it allows us to ignore Dangerous Terrain tests when moving through forests. Inexplicably, we still can't be Steadfast in a forest...
Does this mean we ignore the dangerous terrain test for certain mysterious forest effects? i.e. venom thicket?
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Re: Got FAQs for new book?

Post by godswearhats »

Domine Nox wrote:With Naestra and Arahan on Gwindalor they follow the rules for Monstrous Beast, since they also count as individuals they would each get it. So both Naestra and Arahan would go to T4 W3. It also means that Naestra's bow would heal herself and Arahan, since they are each using the mounts stat profile. A Cannon would still follow its rules of hitting both of them on Gwindalor, since it hits everyone. The only grey area I see with the Twins is BS shooting if they are on Ceithin-Har since the 5+ to hit the rider then begs the question... which rider? Controllers choice? So you can let one tank it, then come back the next phase?
Yes, this is how I'd play them, and how I've seen them played elsewhere. It makes them surprisingly resilient against cannon shot - only a 21% to kill them, and if you have a unit of 5 or more WHR nearby, that's reduced to a smidge over 10%. Hmmm ... do they each get a Look Out, Sir! or is it one roll for the whole model?

As for Ceithin-Har, the Ridden Monster rules have a sub-section dealing with multiple riders, saying you first randomize between monster and riders, and then randomize between riders, so that part is also dealt with.
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Re: Got FAQs for new book?

Post by Domine Nox »

I didn't even think of the Look Out Sir from nearby WHR... that's hilarious, the troll hero that keeps on trolling. I love the Twins so much. And I didn't know about the multiple riders in the BRB, probably cause I've never needed it before, good to know.
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Re: Got FAQs for new book?

Post by frogboy »

Can Orion use the Spear of Kurnous in close combat ?
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Re: Got FAQs for new book?

Post by Eye-Thief »

frogboy wrote:Can Orion use the Spear of Kurnous in close combat ?
Orion's listing in the new book doesn't list a 'Close Combat Weapon', so I would say yes. The entry for the Spear of Kurnous specifies after the shooting weapon entry that "Armour saves cannot be taken against Wounds caused by the Spear of Kurnous."

The separation of this entry from the shooting attack profile (unlike in the Bolt Thrower entry in the BRB where it specifies 'Ignores Armour') suggests that he can use the Spear for Strength 6, Ignores Armour, with no Multiple Wounds.

I think someone else went better into detail in another thread. If I find that I'll be sure to throw their name in for credit on the answer.
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Re: Got FAQs for new book?

Post by frogboy »

Ok thanks Eye-Thief, after re-reading it I see it also says Magic Weapon, :D
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Re: Got FAQs for new book?

Post by Yojimbo »

Don't know if this might have been answered elsewhere but can't see an answer in the army book. Does Drycha have to be deployed in the ordinary manner in order to take advantage of the Roused to Wrath special rule or can she be deployed as one of the slumbering units to be brought on in a subsequent turn?
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Re: Got FAQs for new book?

Post by LandonElf »

I have a couple. Thanks for the answer on Orion's Spear btw. I was scratching my head on that one.

1) Must Naestra and Arahan (and Ceithin-Har) shoot at the same unit?

2) Do Blackbriar Javelins have quick to fire?

3) Do magical arrows pull from a character's magic item allowance?

4) Can mounted characters use Asrai Spears in combat if they did not charge?
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Re: Got FAQs for new book?

Post by Eye-Thief »

LandonElf wrote:I have a couple. Thanks for the answer on Orion's Spear btw. I was scratching my head on that one.

1) Must Naestra and Arahan (and Ceithin-Har) shoot at the same unit?

2) Do Blackbriar Javelins have quick to fire?

3) Do magical arrows pull from a character's magic item allowance?

4) Can mounted characters use Asrai Spears in combat if they did not charge?

Hey LandonElf

1) Being 2 characters on a single mount (much like a Howdah crew on a Warsphinx or Stegadon) would force them to follow the same rules for shooting as a unit. Their bows complement each other fairly well against high-toughness targets, especially monsters, so it's not much of a loss.

2) The 4 GW stores in my city have all ruled that they are intended to include the Quick-To-Fire rules as they are Javelins, despite the lack of the rule in the profile (in stark contrast to the Lustrian Javelin entry in the Lizardmen book). OFFICIALLY, you should probably discuss it with your opponents before games, but until GW comes out with a FAQ, we will probably be playing them with the -1.

3) The presence of the arrows as a unit-upgrade in the army list, rather than being listed in 'Heirlooms' section, would rule out their requirement to pull from a character's magic item allowance.

4) Where as the entry for a Spear (Mounted) in the BRB on page. 91 specifically states that they are only used in a round in which the model charged, the rule for Asrai Spear (Mounted) states 'The Strength bonus granted to a mounted model by an Asrai spear only applies in a turn in which the wielder charged into combat.' The wording of this would strongly suggest to me that the spear continues to be used in combat past the charge round, as it only mentions the loss of the +1 strength in subsequent rounds.

P.S. (sorry for the fairly useless answer on #2 :( )
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Re: Got FAQs for new book?

Post by Beithir Seun »

4) Where as the entry for a Spear (Mounted) in the BRB on page. 91 specifically states that they are only used in a round in which the model charged, the rule for Asrai Spear (Mounted) states 'The Strength bonus granted to a mounted model by an Asrai spear only applies in a turn in which the wielder charged into combat.' The wording of this would strongly suggest to me that the spear continues to be used in combat past the charge round, as it only mentions the loss of the +1 strength in subsequent rounds.

Actually, there's an even clearer answer - I can't quote the page numbers of the BRB, but I can give you the LRB numbers; pg.88 "Special Weapons" and pg.89 under "Close Combat Weapons":
LRB Pg. 88 wrote:We use the term 'special weapon' to cover anything that isn't a hand weapon
LRB Pg.89 wrote:If a model carries a special close combat weapon, he must fight with it in the Close Combat phase - he cannot elect to wield his hand weapon instead.
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Re: Got FAQs for new book?

Post by Eye-Thief »

Hey Beithir, I always assumed that mounted spears were an exception to the rule in this edition of always using specialist weapons, due to the wording in their entry. But I won't argue with more evidence to support Wild Riders getting continued use of their AP Spears!
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Re: Got FAQs for new book?

Post by Coyle_Ravane »

Eye-Thief wrote:Hey Beithir, I always assumed that mounted spears were an exception to the rule in this edition of always using specialist weapons, due to the wording in their entry. But I won't argue with more evidence to support Wild Riders getting continued use of their AP Spears!
Regular spears are an exception, due to their entry in the brb (p.91), having a note specifically saying that they are only used when charging, and the model uses a hand weapon in other rounds.

Asrai spears do not have this.
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Re: Got FAQs for new book?

Post by frogboy »

LandonElf wrote:
3) Do magical arrows pull from a character's magic item allowance?
So I looked at the Characters List in the Army book, surely this is the answer to the "Enchanted Arrow upgrade quandary" I mean its an upgrade and doesn't come from the magic item allowance. Am I right ?

I'd like to ask a question, not sure its a FAQ but something I'm confused with...

Q. Looking at the Army Special Rules for Ambush From The Wildroots, it says "...This forest is not mysterious terrain - declare its type when you place it." What type can it be if not mysterious ?
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Re: Got FAQs for new book?

Post by Yuri »

"Already known" type? Like, instead "I'll put my free mysterious forest here" you'll say "I'll put my Venom Thicket here."
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Re: Got FAQs for new book?

Post by frogboy »

Ok thanks Yuri, just wanted to check that I don't need a lawyer present when I'm about to deploy said venom thicket.
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Re: Got FAQs for new book?

Post by Beithir Seun »

Coyle_Ravane wrote:
Eye-Thief wrote:Hey Beithir, I always assumed that mounted spears were an exception to the rule in this edition of always using specialist weapons, due to the wording in their entry. But I won't argue with more evidence to support Wild Riders getting continued use of their AP Spears!
Regular spears are an exception, due to their entry in the brb (p.91), having a note specifically saying that they are only used when charging, and the model uses a hand weapon in other rounds.

Asrai spears do not have this.

Exactly what Coyle_Ravane said. Asrai Spears are a completely separate weapon entry, with a profile of their own that differs from that of normal spears. There is no stipulation that Asrai Spears are only used when charging, unlike with normal spears, only that they only get the +1S bonus when charging.
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Re: Got FAQs for new book?

Post by LandonElf »

Eye-Thief wrote:
LandonElf wrote:I have a couple. Thanks for the answer on Orion's Spear btw. I was scratching my head on that one.

1) Must Naestra and Arahan (and Ceithin-Har) shoot at the same unit?

2) Do Blackbriar Javelins have quick to fire?

3) Do magical arrows pull from a character's magic item allowance?

4) Can mounted characters use Asrai Spears in combat if they did not charge?

Hey LandonElf

1) Being 2 characters on a single mount (much like a Howdah crew on a Warsphinx or Stegadon) would force them to follow the same rules for shooting as a unit. Their bows complement each other fairly well against high-toughness targets, especially monsters, so it's not much of a loss.

2) The 4 GW stores in my city have all ruled that they are intended to include the Quick-To-Fire rules as they are Javelins, despite the lack of the rule in the profile (in stark contrast to the Lustrian Javelin entry in the Lizardmen book). OFFICIALLY, you should probably discuss it with your opponents before games, but until GW comes out with a FAQ, we will probably be playing them with the -1.

3) The presence of the arrows as a unit-upgrade in the army list, rather than being listed in 'Heirlooms' section, would rule out their requirement to pull from a character's magic item allowance.

4) Where as the entry for a Spear (Mounted) in the BRB on page. 91 specifically states that they are only used in a round in which the model charged, the rule for Asrai Spear (Mounted) states 'The Strength bonus granted to a mounted model by an Asrai spear only applies in a turn in which the wielder charged into combat.' The wording of this would strongly suggest to me that the spear continues to be used in combat past the charge round, as it only mentions the loss of the +1 strength in subsequent rounds.

P.S. (sorry for the fairly useless answer on #2 :( )

Thanks for the breakdown. I agree with your interpretations and will play as such until a FAQ arrives (if ever).

Despite not having quick to fire, I can't say that the Sisters of the Thorn are disappointing. Giving quick to fire to a unit of fast cav with BS5 and poison would be a little outrageous. Especially considering their other abilities.
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Re: Got FAQs for new book?

Post by godswearhats »

Updated the FAQs to include the ones that are most debated currently.
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Re: Got FAQs for new book?

Post by godswearhats »

Updated again. Added the Acorns, and clarified the N&A discussion (yet again).
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Re: Got FAQs for new book?

Post by frogboy »

I have a couple of points I would like to share, I'd say the wording of the Questions could be better, if these are the ones your planing on sending to GW.

For example:-

#2, depending on who gets to answer the question it might be somebody who knows nothing about the new Wood Elves Army book, they could look at the words "multiple" and "Enchanted" and just rule 'No' without even bothering to check.
A better way to phase the question I believe might be this, "On page 37 in The Armoury Of Torgovann, are multiple units from the Wood Elves Army book allowed to equip themselves with the same arrows"

Also the questions are very biased. If these are questions to represent the whole WE community then tagging (my current guess is yes) on the end doesn't reflect everyone's opinion.

Cheers,
Frogboy
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