Beastman Giant chomp attack

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Beastman Giant chomp attack

Postby ~ Wardancer ~ » 04 Mar 2016, 22:24

8th edition alive and well here. Got a question so hope some wisdom is still alive in this forest. Do the wounds recovered by a giant chomp attack affect the combat resolution of the battle?

example. If the giant takes 2 wounds in combat and then he causes 2 wounds his attack ability allows him to immediately heal 2 wounds. In this case does the giants win with a +2 to CR?????
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Re: Beastman Giant chomp attack

Postby Mollesvinet » 05 Mar 2016, 10:46

Interesting question.

I would say that since the ability does not mention combat resolution, then the wounds caused against the giant still count for CR even when healed.
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Re: Beastman Giant chomp attack

Postby Phil Rossiter » 05 Mar 2016, 10:59

~ Wardancer ~ wrote:8th edition alive and well here.

Good to hear, where is 'here'? I have a tournament next week.

~ Wardancer ~ wrote:Do the wounds recovered by a giant chomp attack affect the combat resolution of the battle?

Can't find my book, sorry!
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Re: Beastman Giant chomp attack

Postby ~ Wardancer ~ » 05 Mar 2016, 13:21

Here is the Toronto Canada area. A group of us are still playing 8th religiously. Couldn't / didn't / wouldn't make the change to AOS for all reasons often mentioned. Waiting for 9th to get the kinks worked out. We have 6 man double elimination showdown today as a matter of fact. This chomp attack is a tricky one. The group was divided last week on it and this week no one could find any clear data resolving it. Actually very surprising which means 1 POV is clearly right or no one uses Beastmen Giants :nod:

I started out seeing it the same way Mollesvinet stated. As a WE player that actually works out best for me. Sucks if your playing beastmen though. However the arguments for them to count are rather persuasive. I'd like to list them for you guys and give me an honest assessment.

1. Heals immediately so they take place in the CC round before Combat res is counted.
2. Special rules take precedence and supersede the basic game rules. This is a special attack it can only happen in the combat round why would it not count in the combat res? It can't happen any other time but in CC.
3. Math....... a giant has 3 wounds left a wood elf lord inflicts 2 wounds, the giant attacks a treeman and causes 2 wounds with his chomp attack so he heals 2 wounds immediately the treeman then causes a wound on the giant..........
The giant has taken 3 wounds in CC but is still alive at the end of the round with 2 wounds left on him. Why would we count that he was wounded 3 times?

That last one really, really, really bothers me :question: :question:
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Re: Beastman Giant chomp attack

Postby Mollesvinet » 05 Mar 2016, 14:35

Whether or not he is healed afterwards he still suffered unsaved wounds during the combat. That is what counts for combat resolution. As the chomp rule does not specify anything about combat resolution, then there is nothing for the special rule to overrule.

Why is it different whether you are alive after taking both healing and taking wounds while being in the same phase? With life magic you could heal a wound casting a spell and then losing a wound to the miscast and thus survive even though the miscast would have killed you without the healing.

That is how I see it at least.
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Re: Beastman Giant chomp attack

Postby ~ Wardancer ~ » 05 Mar 2016, 15:20

Your insight is valuable. All input is. I'm hoping for a discussion no right or wrong ideas. The issue is all about who wins combat. it's all about the +1 for each wound. So the magic phase example doesn't slot in well.

I found a string on WARSEER where ( they ) say heal is just a better form of regeneration. Is it? What's heal trying to accomplish in this attack is the question in my mind? It's a special rule in an army rule book and as such takes precedence. Is it a better form of regeneration, is it a save? It HEALS wounds immediately in the combat phase so I'm incline to says it's better than both of them and is a pretty good ability. I can't think of any other situation in the game where wounds inflicted and wounded negated happen in the same combat round.

The math most closely follows the rules for Combat result........ I'll leave out the fluff as that is what's causing the problems in our conversation here.

+1 combat result for each wound inflicted.
Each side's basic combat result is equal to the wounds caused in combat.
It's important to tally up the number of wounds.
Do not count wounds that were saved

needless to say the whole section could have been written fair more precisely.............. but it wasn't!

The middle 2 are also causing a problem for each other.......... the wounds were caused but don't exist to count, so do we really need to talk about them being saved? :crazy:
and the problem is there's a giant standing there with less wounds than his opponent inflicted.

That's about as clear as mud :cry:
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Re: Beastman Giant chomp attack

Postby Mollesvinet » 06 Mar 2016, 12:12

Okay try looking at it like this then:

Giant already took a wound before combat begins.
Your elves do another wound to it.
It does the chomp attack and heals 2 wounds.

If the healing really counted for combat resolution, would that put you at minus one combat res for wounds (disregarding the damage he did to you)?

To me there is no big issue here. There is no way that the ability counts as a saved wound, as the wound was already taken before being healed again. Of course, it is always good with discussion and I am not saying that my way of reading it is necessarily correct.

Of course another option would be to change to 9th and have the team clarify the rules :P (advertisement over haha)
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Re: Beastman Giant chomp attack

Postby ~ Wardancer ~ » 06 Mar 2016, 14:30

Very good point. I like that math :D
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