WE vs WoC

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Aezeal
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WE vs WoC

Post by Aezeal »

WE:
LvL 4 high mage, scroll, iron curse
Sisters on Dragon
11 x GG (HB)
11 x GG (HB)
12 x GG (HB)
7 x WW
8 x WW
9 x DWS
5 x WR (shield and champ)
5 x WR (shield and champ)

WoC:
Deamon Prince (lvl 4 Tzeentsch, familiar, reroll 1's on ward save, mark of Tzeentch (though I hear now that isn't allowed)
BSB, monstrous steed 1+ AS, reroll AS, mark of nurgle. great weapon.
Chimera
Hell Cannon
6 Chaos troll (2 x hw)
15 Chaos warrior (halbard, shield, mark of Nurgle)
Slaanesh chariot
Slaanesh chariot

Terrain:
(see on deployment pic)
The rocky stuff is impassable and we decided it gives hard cover for shooting
The green hill is a regular hill
the 3 Original forest are regular ones
The one I placed (left lowerish) is a venom Thicket.

Spells:
He had blue fire, pink fire, something else (he had a frech book so I couldnt'read) I think it was the 5th spell, and the 6th spell.. the insane infernal gateway spell.
I had Soul Quench (I had walk between worlds), hand of Glory, Arcane Unforging and Fiery Convocation.

Deployment:

Image

I started with my WR, really putting them nowhere and ready to vanguard to where they would be needed.
I divided my HB a bit.
Decided on my sisters near the chimera (which was turned sideways to charge scouts if I'd put them there.
His DP is behind a forest for cover.
My scouts are deployed to shoot at the cannon.
The waywatchers want to shoot at .. well everything except the trolls and the chimera.. but mainly the DP at first so I put them on that side of the table.. but the chimera was there so I decided to keep them near my army (and the sisters).

I got first turn:
WE 1

Image

Movement: I think I only moved the sisters so I could better shoot at the DP. (After I do it I'm not happy with it.. sister nearly next to the lvl 4 while he has artillery.. less smart.
Magic: 5 + 1. After measuring I noticed I couldn't do anything with the 3 damage spells.. so I cast hand of glory with 3 dice. He tried to dispell with 3 but failed (he feared I had some magic item to cast with since I didn't use all my dice.. but I just didn't want an IF.. I mostly cast the spell to get a token.
Shooting: My waywatchers all shot at the DP and had some luck, 2 wounds and he failed rolled 2 and 3 :evil: so 2 wounds to start. No poison and no wounds on the hellcanon from the scouts. I think I did 1 wound on the chariot with the right most GG and 2 wounds on the troll with the other 2 units. The sisters shoot at the DP: Naestra fails to wound, Arahan rolls 3 (on 2 D6) for number of shots and doesnt'do anything either.
Combat: -

WoC 1
Image

Movement: Everything advances (chimera and the DP somewhat hidden behind the impassable terrain for -2 to hit.
Magic: 6 +1, he 6 dices infernal gateway on the 12 GG unit and I dispell it
SHooting: HELL CANNON MISFIRES.. ROLLS 1: BOOM, GONE (no collateral damage)
Combat: -

My opponent is (like all in this shop) a very friendly opponent, but at this time he's convinced the dice are against him even though that except for the hellcannon things aren't that much away from average... next turns the dice will be terrible for me... really nasty.

WE 2

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Movement: With his army advancing I still don't like the sisters where they are. I don't want to charge him yet so I decide to move them back so they can react to whateve he decides to do with his DP and chimera. I actually think with vanguard and move turn 1 the WR where already in the forest. They try a long charge (needed to roll 9)but roll abysmal and just move 3 (still in the forest). The waywatchers turn a bit to be able to stand and shoot if the chimera and DP charge. (my opponent was convinced I couldn't just march and move 1(he wanted me to reform or wheel etc which menat I hardly could move.. else I'd nearest unit more in front of the GG. (I know he was wrong).
Magic: Another 5 or 6 + 1 worthless phase . I'm not exactly sure what happens. I think he dispelled a lot or I failed to cast a boosted soul quench or something.
Shooting I think the WW try to shoot the DP but do no wounds. The scouts do 2 wounds on the chariot (1 remaining there).
Also some more wounds on the trolls, 1 has been removed at this time. The sisters shoot at the DP AGAIN : Naestra's wound gets saved,Arahan rolls 2 (on 2 D6 - yes in 2 turns 5 shots on a total of 4 D6) for number of shots and doesn't do anything either AGAIN.
(my poison and wounding rolls are terrible)
Combat: -

Now things go really wrong.

WoC 2
Image

Movement: The chariot right decided not to charge the scouts (fears stand and shoot will kill him (1 wound remaining) so he charges the WR and he makes the charge. I think that could've gone very nasty for the WR (.. they'll die a gruesome death anyway though) BUT he rolls a 1 on the DT test and the chariot's wheels break, the riders are thrown against trees, their backs broken etc etc.. chariot is gone. The DP doesn't charge the WW and the Chimera neither.. Though either could destroy a unit of WW (but would be in charge arc of sisters then.. he move the chimera next to my army... Other stuff advances.
Magic: The DP decides he doesn't like the unit of waywatchers and casts.. Infernal gateway (there is a pattern here): he roll an S somewhere high enough to wound on 2 + and then like 9-10 hits: all 7 WW are dead. The spell was IF (else I'd have scrolled it) he rolls 7 though and nothing is in base contact so no damage, remaining dice are gone though.
Shooting: With the hell canon there is no shooting.. right? Chimera's flame breath disagrees.. all WW and 5 GG are under the template: 3 WW remain and 4 GG die: both have to test for panic. The WW face the fire with courage.. but the spellweaver breaks under the fiery torrent and flees with the unit on her heels.... THIS IS NOT GOOD. They end up in front of the other GG and in front of the trolls too.
Combat:: -

Things are not good.

WE 3

Image

Movement: First I have to declare charges, I charge with the WR into the troll to try and save the lvl 4. They make the charge. Sisters charge the Chimera. The WR try a long charge on the warriors (I think they had to roll 9 again.. and fail again). Then... the lvl 4 DOESN"T rally so flees to the edge of the board, only rolls a 5 though so ends up just behind the other GG (but facing the edge ofc.)... the 3 remaining WW move a bit so they are in front of the sisters.
Magic: Fleeing mage... no magic.
Shooting: I think I do maybe 1 wound on the chariot and kill 1-2 warriors (my to hit rolls of all archers only getting 1 poison 6 and then nearly no wounds and a lot of armor saves succeed. (as if the horrible LD test wheren't bad enough). The 3 brave remaining WW actually score another wound on the DP.
Combat: Sisters and dragon kill the chimera easily (so.. I get the feeling they are pretty decent in combat (they are probably decent tbh).. remember this for next turn.
The BSB challanges my champ and I accept. I think I even do 1 wound on the BSB (not sure). THe WR do like 5 wounds on the troll. The trolls kill another 2 WR (4 wounds get throught but I roll 2 6's for wardsave.. about the only above average roll I had this game (and the first 2 wounds on the DP). The combat score is actually in my favor (by 1). BSB gets +1 S for eyes of the gods.


WoC 3

Image

Movement: The DP doesn't feel like facing a dragon with 1 wound remaining and flees to the other side of the table (not quite save.. WR and scouts there but he feels this is his best option.
THe chariot charges the WW. The warriors charge the GG on the right.
Magic: Something like 6+1. The DP actually had a plan: Infernal Gateway (AGAIN) on the WR on the left... He roll S 10 and then 11 hits... do I need to say more.. the WR (the terrible charge failing WR) die in warpfire. (I acutally got a dispell on +4 but failed it)
Shooting: No shooting
Combat: The chariot kills the WW (no damage on stand and shoot). The warriors kill like 5 GG (the ASF elves get 5 attacks which fail to penetrate armor). The remaining WR are killed by the trolls (not sure if they did much damage) 3 trolls (maybe 1-2 wounds on one of them) and the BSB remain.

WE 4

Image

Movement: Well.. the WR died.. so no charge on the DP :S. The Sisters charge the chariot. The weaver finally gets her act together and rallies her gladeguard bodyguards and faces the trolls bravely.. from behind the other GG unit ofc.
Magic: My options are limited. I decide arcane unforging isn't worth it on the BSB (... yes... not a good assumption). And I don't have the warriors in my front arc so can't put Fiery Convocation on them. My opponent decides my pretty high floating mage does have line of sight on the troll though so I try to do a boosted soulquench on them.. not sure what happens I think he just dispelled it even though he had no +4 anymore.
Shooting: Scouts fire on the DP... 1 wound gets through.... and he rolls a nice 3 for his WS... DEAD... 500 VP for me.
Combat: Chariot dies easily. I wheel the sisters a bit so I can charge the trolls where they are now or if they are in melee with the GG.

SO.. 500 VP from the DP and 115 or something from the chariot... do I still have a chance to get a draw.... we will see..

WoC 4

Image

Movement: he decides NOT to risk a long charge (had to roll a 10 I think) with the troll... BUT he's smart and charges the BSB out (only needs to roll an 8.. and succeeds. The warriors reform to face the GG units. The trolls move a bit mostly to face the dragon expecting a charge.
Magic: DP dead yay.
Shooting: Nope.
Combat: The BSB faces 11 GG. I'm using advanced mathematic skill so I see he can't remove 7 of the GG with his 6 attacks (4 from BSB and 2 from the horse (btw that monstrous mount has a TINY model for something with S5 T5 and 3 wounds).I hit first ofcourse... and fail to penetrate the 1+ rerollable AS (ow a dawnstone there... I should have known I guess.. but I've not played WoC before... maybe I SHOULD have cast arcane unforging last turn?? yeah..) BUT I still have steadfast so my GG are save right... well actually I roll an 11 on the LD test and every last hope I had gets crushed beneath the hooves of a monstrous mount as the GG run for it but get overrun and the BSB crashes into the unit with the weaver (I had intended to jump her out of the unit to be save..) so the weaver is tied up in combat ... Not an ideal situation.

So my weaver is in combat now.. not able to jump out of the unit before the BSB got there.. due to another failed LD test.
BUT my sisters have just killed a chimera and a chariot.. they are KILLERS and they WILL save the general....

WE 5

Image

Movement: I obviously don't charge the trolls.. but my KILLER sisters decide to end the menace of the BSB and save the spell weaver general. An above average charge... but I roll the 8 or 9 required.
Magic: I don't unforge the dawnstone (didn't even try that.. not sure if I had sight on it or whatever was needed.. ) I do get a hand of glory on the sisters and Ceitin Har for +2 WS.
Shooting: Scouts fire through the forest on the warriors (6+ to hit for poison, on the trolls it would have been 7+ due to the terrain... no real damage. Trolls might have gotten another wound but his regen was brutal.
Combat: The sisters attack (the BSB had to challenge and they accepted) , on the charge they have S5 and AP AND their boosted WS (now 6) and rerolls on the to hit rolls too.. Neastra gets 2 hits and then wounds on 3+.. BOTH wound..then the armor rolls and the first roll it saves 1.. and the reroll saves the other. Arahan gets a wound in though. The mount does 1 wound on 1 of the sisters. The BSB has 4 attacks and needsd 2 wounds on 1 sister and 2 on the other to kill them this phase.. else all his efforts will be for naught... I should be save right? He decides to throw 1 dice against the sister with 1 wound and 3 against the other. He gets the 1 hit and the 2 hits he needs. I PRAY FOR A 1 on the wounding roll... but the chaos gods are with the BSB.. no 1. Naestra and Arahan are dead. THe dragon succeeds LD but this dragon.. A HUGE powerfull DRAGON.. actually only gives -3 AS so also a 4+ with reroll.. (OMG this is NASTY) and doesn't get a wound through.
The combat is lost. The GG and weaver break and run of the board. The dragon breaks and is overrun by the BSB.

Only my scouts remain and we decide to call it a day.
He has 1956 points (only 144 points of scouts remaining), I have something like 1352 points.
an 8-12 or 4-16 or something loss for me.
Attachments
WE_vs_WoC_Turn_5_Wood_Elves.jpg
WE_vs_WoC_Turn_4_Chaos_Warriors.jpg
WE_vs_WoC_Turn_4_Wood_Elves.jpg
WE_vs_WoC_Turn_3_Chaos_Warriors.jpg
WE_vs_WoC_Turn_3_Wood_Elves.jpg
WE_vs_WoC_Turn_2_Chaos_Warriors.jpg
WE_vs_WoC_Turn_2_Wood_Elves.jpg
WE_vs_WoC_Turn_1_Chaos_Warriors.jpg
WE_vs_WoC_Turn_1_Wood_Elves.jpg
WE_vs_WoC_Deployment.jpg
Last edited by Aezeal on 02 May 2015, 21:00, edited 2 times in total.
Aezeal
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Re: WE vs WoC

Post by Aezeal »

So... what went well.

- I think deployment was ok.
- luck on getting 2 wounds on the DP first turn and him blowing up his cannon

What did not go well.
- Underestimating the power of the rerollable 1+ AS (no experience with it). . I let my sisters charge the BSB thinking I'd be able to do some damage with high S attacks and AP... I was very very wrong.
- Dice.. except a handful of nice rolls the dice didn't really do what I wanted. My poison shots on to hit rolls where way below average and my wounding rolls where abysmal.. hardly any 6's there... my magic phases nearly all where X + 1, which is annoying. The not so wild riders on the right failed 2 charges. The LD tests where horrid (ow THAT was where the 6's went). The luck he had in just killing my sisters was nasty too.
- Not using arcane unforging on the dawnstone (tbh I didn't really know he had it at that point.. but I shouldve unforged on the BSB).
- I didn't use a BSB.. not a surprise.. I hardly ever take one.. but that will change.. just need to find the points for one in this list (probably gonna have to delete the sisters to get him... and that makes me sad they wheren;t all that good this game (still destroyed 400 points though) but I think they really have potential.. as long as you don't put them against some of the meanest combat chars in the game.

I think that on average dice I might have gotten a draw and if I get rid of the dawnstone next game I can see enough options to win against this army. If I get a rematch I might have a better chance now I know WoC a bit better (tbh.. he didn't know WE either so he might do better that game too).

Besides getting a BSB I like the rest of my troops so the biggest issue will be deciding on magic lore next games.... now high magic didn't really do anything for me.. but I had a fleeing wizard 2 turns and didn't unforge a crucial item when I should've.. so I guess I'll give it another chance.
If I delete the sisters I could get a BSB, a level 2 and some more WW... but I'd loose some serious melee power... the chimera and the chariot they killed would have been VERY hard to kill by my other troops. It's a tough decision what to do there... I think against most armies I will need the WW and the scouts.. and the GG are minimum core so can't be deleted either. 1 lvl 4 seems minimum magic power I can take so I can't really go lower there either (and they'd need to be WAY lower to allow room for a BSB). My only real option to get a BSB if I keep the sisters is to delete a unit of WR.... hard choices..
Etheneus
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Re: WE vs WoC

Post by Etheneus »

I play WoC reguraly and onlinerollspel struggle With the characters. Chimera = hagbane or starfire (always bring 4-6 dws with the last one) Chariots = lots of hagbane or WW. Warrior horde = easy to avoid. Metal is always good. I had hoped the dragon lord or sisters on dragon could do something against the characters but I gues that isn't the case :cry:
BSB is by my experince only worth it if you bring EG or a Freeman of any kind.
Jezandu
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Re: WE vs WoC

Post by Jezandu »

Interesting report. I enjoyed this, I hate that chaos won, but most reports often only show winning games and this was quite refreshing if a little harrowing! I know I've got a few opponents coming up who play chaos and wonder how to takle such a tough force. My army list is very different to yours so it'll be interesting if I can do any better. (I'm pretty sure I'll get massacred). I think taking the BSB and having more magic could be a good thing and maybe looking at using Shadow and Metal. Obviously if the dice gods are against you then it'll never be your day!
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Mollesvinet
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Re: WE vs WoC

Post by Mollesvinet »

On the daemon prince, the mark of tzeentch will give him rerolls of 1's on ward and channels (along with hatred vs nurgle). He will still be ward save 5++ though.

As you said, a BSB could be handy here. Also, a banner of discipline in a bunker unit of glade guard can make your general LD10 which is handy. Banner of eternal flame on wild riders is also really good! Consider you charging his trolls in the flank and challenging out his BSB, this could get real ugly for him. The flaming banner is also good to put pressure on his chimera early on.

For shooting I think you wasted the shots against the trolls. The trolls are easy to redirect and have a lot of wounds. Priorities should be chimera and chariots for poison and of course DP for waywatchers.

Good prediction that he couldn't break your steadfast with BSB, this could have let you run your mage out alone next turn. Too bad the break test failed anyway. Don't forget to flee charges sometimes, on turn 3 I think you could have fled waywatchers and glade guard to not only save them for later but also delay his warriors.

Still not sure the sisters are worth it, they may have killed 400 points worth of models but they cost 500. Chariot and chimera should be killable in other ways. If you bring a BSB next time you can give him hail of doom and add some flaming scouts, this combo can remove a chimera quickly.

Better luck next time!
Aezeal
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Re: WE vs WoC

Post by Aezeal »

Mollesvinet wrote:On the daemon prince, the mark of tzeentch will give him rerolls of 1's on ward and channels (along with hatred vs nurgle). He will still be ward save 5++ though.

As you said, a BSB could be handy here. Also, a banner of discipline in a bunker unit of glade guard can make your general LD10 which is handy. Banner of eternal flame on wild riders is also really good! Consider you charging his trolls in the flank and challenging out his BSB, this could get real ugly for him. The flaming banner is also good to put pressure on his chimera early on.

For shooting I think you wasted the shots against the trolls. The trolls are easy to redirect and have a lot of wounds. Priorities should be chimera and chariots for poison and of course DP for waywatchers.

Good prediction that he couldn't break your steadfast with BSB, this could have let you run your mage out alone next turn. Too bad the break test failed anyway. Don't forget to flee charges sometimes, on turn 3 I think you could have fled waywatchers and glade guard to not only save them for later but also delay his warriors.

Still not sure the sisters are worth it, they may have killed 400 points worth of models but they cost 500. Chariot and chimera should be killable in other ways. If you bring a BSB next time you can give him hail of doom and add some flaming scouts, this combo can remove a chimera quickly.

Better luck next time!
I think he played the DP as 4++ and reroll 1's. Not sure if there are items that could have done this. Also 5 spells and a bonus to channel or something from a familiar.

I think I couldn't fire at the chimera with the GG the first turn and the turns after he was in cover.

I did indeed want to jump the weaver out of the unit but never got the chance.

I'm not quite sure why I didn't flee with the WW actually. I didn't flee with the GG since they'd have a fair chance of running of the table.

I'm thinking you are a bit harsh for the sisters: this was apperantly a hard match-up for them but still they got 400 points, more importantly I didn't HAVE to engage the BSB (and if I'd done the math I might not have done so AND the dice where very in his favor that battle too). If the sisters had just evaded everything he had (easy since nothing he had was fast) They'd just have been 400 in the plus. Also.. except for dedicated combat chars they are not killed that easily, certainly not by characters much cheaper. I think that in nearly all matchup's they can be effective.. though warmachines are a problem ofc. They had terrible rolls on shooting else they'd have probably shot of 100 + points too.
having said that: a BSB, a mage and some more WW are good idea's too.. still not sure if I should delete the sisters for this or delete a WR unit just for the BSB. Then I will have only 1 unit of WR to do all melee.. I like shooty but that seems like multiple fast cav and chars would just eat the archers with no resistance.

I didnt'take a BSB untill now since I really don't mind a 10-12 man unit of GG running (and if they run they are probably smaller already from combat or spell/shooting damage. But having the only mage in the army running is just not acceptable. I might make the GG unit with the mage bigger next time (for the min 34 GG I could go 10-10-14, or even just in 2 units 20-14). A BSB does seem the savest bet though the +1 LD banner is 25 points + 10 for a bearer (though if I put it on the BSB that makes it just 15 points but then I can't get a HoDA anymore). I think it might be worth it though. I can certainly save a few points by deleting WR champs.
Aezeal
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Re: WE vs WoC

Post by Aezeal »

Jezandu wrote:Interesting report. I enjoyed this, I hate that chaos won, but most reports often only show winning games and this was quite refreshing if a little harrowing! I know I've got a few opponents coming up who play chaos and wonder how to takle such a tough force. My army list is very different to yours so it'll be interesting if I can do any better. (I'm pretty sure I'll get massacred). I think taking the BSB and having more magic could be a good thing and maybe looking at using Shadow and Metal. Obviously if the dice gods are against you then it'll never be your day!
I really doubt a more melee oriented army has much of a chance against this sort of stuff. The sisters might work in such an army since they do have decent shooting the turns before they get in melee. Their +1 wound (on one of them) and S5 AP on the charge makes they pretty decent in combat, that and a dragon. Total of 11 attacks. Chariots will just hurt everything our army can put against it, there are not much units we have that wont' loose the chariot's value in points when the chariot gets a charge on them.
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