Bitter Defeat...
Moderator: Council of Elders
- Nicholas Nitro
- Horsemaster
- Posts: 336
- Joined: 19 May 2014, 07:35
- Armies I play: wood elves
- Location: Frozen Forests of Chugiak, Alaska
Bitter Defeat...
Ah man, just lost my first game against my Bretonnian buddy. Was expecting to go 3-0 against him, so I got too cocky and over-confident.
Plus I wanted to try something ridiculous, so...
7 units of 12 Glade Girls w/Swift Shiver arrows
2 units of 12 Glade Girls w/arcane bodkins
1 unit of 9 scouts w/hagbane
2 units of 14 way-watchers
sister's of twilight
lvl2 shadow-singer w/bow, disspell, tree-singing, pendulum
vs.
Lvl 3 heavens, lvl2 beasts, lvl2 shadow, 2 Pegasus knights, his king on a hippo... and as many knights as he could afford.
...and I paid for my arrogance. Swift-shiver was hitting between 5+ to 8+, and failing to get past his armor save. My way-watchers over preformed, but he quickly figured that out and managed a charge one unit, who only won combat against that knight unit's surviving hero because of his "wizarding hat" exploding during the magic phase. I gave up just before the end of the 3rd turn. He had effectively boxed me in and cut off my escape. I was up 1200pts to 400pts, but he was about to charge through my turtled-up line and I couldn't give him the pleasure of hacking up the ladies.
Moral of the story:
Today the Bretonnian's return home victorious. They proclaimed themselves a new saint, Sir Longleaf "the rescuer of the children."
The elves return to the forest empty handed for the first time. Having been unharmed/unhindered on the previous 2 occasions, the glade girls had lost respect for the inferior humans. Today they nearly paid for it in blood. If the elf women wish to continue taking young Brets, the bodkin's are their only hope against an army with 2+ armor save and a 6+ ward.
Thoughts? Suggestions? Ridicule?
Plus I wanted to try something ridiculous, so...
7 units of 12 Glade Girls w/Swift Shiver arrows
2 units of 12 Glade Girls w/arcane bodkins
1 unit of 9 scouts w/hagbane
2 units of 14 way-watchers
sister's of twilight
lvl2 shadow-singer w/bow, disspell, tree-singing, pendulum
vs.
Lvl 3 heavens, lvl2 beasts, lvl2 shadow, 2 Pegasus knights, his king on a hippo... and as many knights as he could afford.
...and I paid for my arrogance. Swift-shiver was hitting between 5+ to 8+, and failing to get past his armor save. My way-watchers over preformed, but he quickly figured that out and managed a charge one unit, who only won combat against that knight unit's surviving hero because of his "wizarding hat" exploding during the magic phase. I gave up just before the end of the 3rd turn. He had effectively boxed me in and cut off my escape. I was up 1200pts to 400pts, but he was about to charge through my turtled-up line and I couldn't give him the pleasure of hacking up the ladies.
Moral of the story:
Today the Bretonnian's return home victorious. They proclaimed themselves a new saint, Sir Longleaf "the rescuer of the children."
The elves return to the forest empty handed for the first time. Having been unharmed/unhindered on the previous 2 occasions, the glade girls had lost respect for the inferior humans. Today they nearly paid for it in blood. If the elf women wish to continue taking young Brets, the bodkin's are their only hope against an army with 2+ armor save and a 6+ ward.
Thoughts? Suggestions? Ridicule?
"Herald of Athel Loren" Limited Edition Book #0165
AoS is the greatest!
AoS is the greatest!
-
- Horsemaster
- Posts: 400
- Joined: 31 May 2013, 06:06
Re: Bitter Defeat...
With a list like that and going against Brettonian, an eagle or two for redirecting/fleeing would have provided an additional round of shooting. But I don't know where you can find the points.
Favorite hobby - playing GW games
2nd favorite hobby - complaining about GW
2nd favorite hobby - complaining about GW
- Nicholas Nitro
- Horsemaster
- Posts: 336
- Joined: 19 May 2014, 07:35
- Armies I play: wood elves
- Location: Frozen Forests of Chugiak, Alaska
Re: Bitter Defeat...
If I had dropped the sister's I could have used a couple eagles and another unit w/bodkins. Ah hindsight...
"Herald of Athel Loren" Limited Edition Book #0165
AoS is the greatest!
AoS is the greatest!
Re: Bitter Defeat...
honestly you should have kept the sisters, they are fast cav and shouldn't be caught EVER by a lance formation.
drop the arcane bodkins, and a unit of them - have something to deal with the knights, a treeman.
and just keep moving your way-watchers, the -1 from move doesn't mean much to them.
drop the arcane bodkins, and a unit of them - have something to deal with the knights, a treeman.
and just keep moving your way-watchers, the -1 from move doesn't mean much to them.
Re: Bitter Defeat...
Honestly swiftshiver shards really need high magic/hand of glory. I've found that even Waywatchers often benefit from single shots. In sub optimal shooting conditions there's no difference in hitting on 5s or doubling and taking a 6s. And if you know that your facing Brets why not stack arcane bodkins? 2+ goes to 5+ and at T3 that's a lot of dead knights.
war without fire is as worthless as sausages without mustard
- Nicholas Nitro
- Horsemaster
- Posts: 336
- Joined: 19 May 2014, 07:35
- Armies I play: wood elves
- Location: Frozen Forests of Chugiak, Alaska
Re: Bitter Defeat...
I definitely should have taken Bodkins, I don't think treeman would have weathered the storm. I was up in points but he managed to cut off my escape. The swift shiver was averaging 2 wounds per 24 shot volley. I was testing them out as a primary technique for my all-ranged army. When they are spread out, the MSU don't offer the knights much of a target, but when cornered... the knights can over-run into other units. The idea was to figure out if s.s. could efficiently wound the knights. It can't. Had I taken 7 units w/Bokins and 2 units w/S.S. instead, i'm sure it'd gone differently. A fun and close loss, and my first with the "new" rules.
"Herald of Athel Loren" Limited Edition Book #0165
AoS is the greatest!
AoS is the greatest!
- Nicholas Nitro
- Horsemaster
- Posts: 336
- Joined: 19 May 2014, 07:35
- Armies I play: wood elves
- Location: Frozen Forests of Chugiak, Alaska
Re: Bitter Defeat...
here's how it went down:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peEe6od ... e=youtu.be
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peEe6od ... e=youtu.be
"Herald of Athel Loren" Limited Edition Book #0165
AoS is the greatest!
AoS is the greatest!
- Lord Sloth
- Newcomer
- Posts: 94
- Joined: 29 Oct 2009, 12:15
- Armies I play: Wood Elves and High Elves
- Location: Cape Town, South Africa
Re: Bitter Defeat...
How did you have dispell scroll and the tree-singing staff? They are both arcane items.lvl2 shadow-singer w/bow, disspell, tree-singing, pendulum
"Athel Loren shall not suffer the presence of Men, nor Orcs, nor Dwarfs, nor Beastmen. If a foe takes a single step upon such sacred soil, they shall not take another." - Skarloc, Mist Walker of Athel Loren
- Nicholas Nitro
- Horsemaster
- Posts: 336
- Joined: 19 May 2014, 07:35
- Armies I play: wood elves
- Location: Frozen Forests of Chugiak, Alaska
Re: Bitter Defeat...
good eye, I made a mistake.
"Herald of Athel Loren" Limited Edition Book #0165
AoS is the greatest!
AoS is the greatest!
Re: Bitter Defeat...
Not sure if you're still following, as I haven't posted in ages..Nicholas Nitro wrote:I definitely should have taken Bodkins, I don't think treeman would have weathered the storm.
My main army is Bretonnia, so if you get a big monster (treeman) in and he doesn't die (like if you could get the charge), then they are stuck for the game.. they are low str. and after the first turn, even if they charged, they only fight with 3 man+ 3 supporting attacks.
True you can't use thunder stomp, but an entire lance stuck in combat is a nightmare for a bret player..
Re: Bitter Defeat...
you had 108 glade guards?
Against bret's I'd have gone full special allowance on waywatchers (proxy GG), then min core GG on bodkins, 2 units of wildriders and the rest in scouts mixed between bodkins and HB.
His army is fast and scouts can try to evade some charges with moveing and shooting... GG are just always gonna die against fast stuff.
The sisters of twilight aren't bad I think their Ceitin Har breath attack can easiliy destroy a lot of human Knights.
Against bret's I'd have gone full special allowance on waywatchers (proxy GG), then min core GG on bodkins, 2 units of wildriders and the rest in scouts mixed between bodkins and HB.
His army is fast and scouts can try to evade some charges with moveing and shooting... GG are just always gonna die against fast stuff.
The sisters of twilight aren't bad I think their Ceitin Har breath attack can easiliy destroy a lot of human Knights.
-
- Newcomer
- Posts: 59
- Joined: 10 Dec 2014, 23:54
- Armies I play: All female wood elf army
- Location: Denmark
Re: Bitter Defeat...
Since you know he is gonna bring a ton of +2 armour, definitely use the razor standard in a unit of Bodkins, since the bodkins dont have armour piercing special rules, you can reduce the +2 AS to a +6 AS.
But that strategy has its own problems, for one you will need to buy a BSB and use a minimum of 145 to get the Captain, BSB upgrade and razor banner.
on the bright side it means you can bring the hail of doom arrow, without buying its obligatory captain on the side.
fun times if you time it to a turn where you cast hands of glory on the unit.
But that strategy has its own problems, for one you will need to buy a BSB and use a minimum of 145 to get the Captain, BSB upgrade and razor banner.
on the bright side it means you can bring the hail of doom arrow, without buying its obligatory captain on the side.
fun times if you time it to a turn where you cast hands of glory on the unit.
Re: Bitter Defeat...
Just a quick note, razor standard only effects close combat attacks. I think it's in a FAQ.
war without fire is as worthless as sausages without mustard
-
- Trusted Bowman
- Posts: 225
- Joined: 29 Feb 2012, 01:49
- Armies I play: Wood Elves, Skaven, Lizardmen
- Location: Ireland
Re: Bitter Defeat...
A level 1 Metal mage on a steed is very useful. Searing Doom their 2+ saves.
- Nicholas Nitro
- Horsemaster
- Posts: 336
- Joined: 19 May 2014, 07:35
- Armies I play: wood elves
- Location: Frozen Forests of Chugiak, Alaska
Re: Bitter Defeat...
The razor standard doesn't effect the bodkins (or ranged attacks) but the spell in the metal-lore does. 108 Glade-Guard can have an awesome effect on the first turn, but with the wrong arrows against the wrong opponent it can go bad quick. I 'only' own 120... so I like to use them!
"Herald of Athel Loren" Limited Edition Book #0165
AoS is the greatest!
AoS is the greatest!
Re: Bitter Defeat...
Well at least proxy them as scouts then after core minimum GG has been settled. The 1 extra point gives you so much added mobility you could probably have avoided a lot of charges or at least moved your units in such a way that he'd have to do a lot of reforming and take extra turns to get to the other units. Not to mention you can put scouts in units of 5.. so a charge by a HUGE STRONG unit of knights.. can only kill 5 per turn.. instead of 12 GG.Nicholas Nitro wrote:The razor standard doesn't effect the bodkins (or ranged attacks) but the spell in the metal-lore does. 108 Glade-Guard can have an awesome effect on the first turn, but with the wrong arrows against the wrong opponent it can go bad quick. I 'only' own 120... so I like to use them!
How did your sisters do btw? (on dragon the breath attack should be nice).
I'd also get a least a few melee units. A unit of 2 WR will just make him a bit more carefull in his approach which might save you another turn.. which is pretty big considering there are only 6 turns . Not to mention .. if the WR charge a unit of knights they'd probably come out ahead the first round too.
- Nicholas Nitro
- Horsemaster
- Posts: 336
- Joined: 19 May 2014, 07:35
- Armies I play: wood elves
- Location: Frozen Forests of Chugiak, Alaska
Re: Bitter Defeat...
I only used 9 scouts because I knew my buddy only has only 1 trebuchet. I usually kill it the first turn, so I think he elected not to field it that game. I think I have 20-something scout models put together/half-painted. When I assembled the all-female GG, all 120 of them, I had so many left over male bits I just decided to use the hooded-heads and male torsos for the scouts (aesthetics and identity).
I field the sisters on Gwindalor using a less then favorable rule interpretation... 4W and 4T is still pretty good (albeit over priced), and they typically just fly around in 10" increments trying to kill pegasus knights, lone models or warmachines. Arahan's bow does well against a few high toughness or several really low toughness enemies, and Naestra's bow can kill basically anything with a couple modest rolls (but the shot is kinda wasted/overkill against normal enemies). In close combat while riding Gwindalor, the 4 wound interpretation, coupled with conjoined destiny, leaves them a little vulnerable... but the Bret lord with his flying mount couldn't do enough in one turn to kill them. I think they were charged in turn 3 and remained tied up until the end of the game.
I field the sisters on Gwindalor using a less then favorable rule interpretation... 4W and 4T is still pretty good (albeit over priced), and they typically just fly around in 10" increments trying to kill pegasus knights, lone models or warmachines. Arahan's bow does well against a few high toughness or several really low toughness enemies, and Naestra's bow can kill basically anything with a couple modest rolls (but the shot is kinda wasted/overkill against normal enemies). In close combat while riding Gwindalor, the 4 wound interpretation, coupled with conjoined destiny, leaves them a little vulnerable... but the Bret lord with his flying mount couldn't do enough in one turn to kill them. I think they were charged in turn 3 and remained tied up until the end of the game.
"Herald of Athel Loren" Limited Edition Book #0165
AoS is the greatest!
AoS is the greatest!