Ryan Abt Battle Log 5/27 Update

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Ryan Abt Battle Log 5/27 Update

Post by ryanabt »

I decided to start an army blog where people can post critiques, suggestions, encouragement, etc. Hopefully this will spur on good, grounded discussion of tactics and armies.

I have played WE since the first day of 8th ed (That's right, I got into WE just as 8th hit...oops). I played an MSU, avoidance army throughout that time. I took about half my games in uncomped tournies with such an army (no forest spirits). Now, the new book has arrived and such a list is actually viable.

This was my 4th game with the new WE...

My list:
Lvl4 Shadow w/tal of prot
Glade Lord w/Acorn

Lvl1 metal mage w/moonstone
Waystalker w/Bow of Loren
Captain BSB w/Hail of Doom Arrow

2X10 musician; trueflight
13 musician; trueflight
5 Glade Riders Hagbane

2X5 Wild Riders
2X9 Scouts Hagbane
3 Warhawks

2X7 Waywatchers

He had:
greater daemon lvl 4 Slaanesh
Lvl 1 Slaanesh bsb
masque

40 daemonettes
15-20 bloodletters
2 units of seekers
3skullcrushers
khorne cannon
soulgrinder

Deployment:
Image
I tried to make use of my two poison woods (the two in the middle left of the table. I also made the mistake of not having all my poison opposite the Greater Daemon. This mean an extra turn of magic later. I also opened myself up to a flank cannon shot if he got first turn (I got the +1). In all, a mediocre deployment for me. That big tower however looked to be useful to hid behind and use as a way to split his forces.

Turn 1:
Me:
Image
Arrow of Kurnous takes a wound off the general. I move for flank charges with wild riders and maneuver to give myself options with way watchers later. The magic phase sees miasma on the skull crushers because I hadn't given myself LoS for the Lvl4...oops. I shoot 4 wounds of the skull crusher, 1 wound off the cannon. Killed both units of seekers as fast cav are a huge threat to my list. Even though the other stuff is scary and fast, they are my targetting priority.

Him:
Image
He tries long charges on my scouts (11 and 12 needed) and barely fails both. His soulcrusher runs forward to threaten me and block access to Greater Daemon. Magic sees him acquiesce and caco my scouts and my block of GG. :(

Turn 2:
Me:
Image
I charge his skullcrusher flank with Wild Riders. No other charges. Not sure on the rule here, but I move my BSB, Glade Lord, and GG unit with random movement separately so that I can double flee to escape. I also random move my scouts forward toward his soul crusher. I fail to do magicy things due to low winds. I shoot all but one wound off the Daemon with basically ALL my shooting. I kill the skull crushers while losing 1 wild rider and then overrun into the cannon.

Him:
Image
Soulcrusher charged the general and bsb, both fled. He failed charge. His magic gives frenzy to my right side GG block. I did manage to stop caco, but acquiesce hits scouts. He does his sexy masque dance and took str. from my wild riders, but I was still able to kill the cannon and overrun.

Turn 3:
Me:
Image
I charge the rear of the bloodthirsters. I fail my ld.8 with my glade guard with doubl 6 and then roll to charge and rol...double 6 so that I make it into the daemonettes. In magic I enfeeble the soul grinder. I killed the Greater daemon but failed to put a wound on the Masque. The glade guard & lvl 1 die. The bloodthirsters were whittled down to 5 so still had steadfast.

Him:
Image
Daemonettes charge my waystalker, who holds because he would redirect into my GG unit. Soul Grinder charges scouts. Magic dispels enfeebling. In combat the Soul Grinder kills scouts (no surprise there). The daemonettes overrun into my GG. I finish off the Blood thirsters.

Turn 4:
Me:
Image
In spite of the picture, I did not overrun, but couldn't actually see the soulgrinder so I positioned my wild riders to charge it in the rear. Magic does enfeebling to the daemonettes. Shooting goes after the masque...and fails. Soulgrinder fight stays with nothing. In spite of str. 1, his daemonettes kill my GG.


Him:
Image
He moves toward my final GG unit. His masque comes out and chills beside my scouts. In magic he kills some waywatchers with rolls and hit my scouts with something (can't remember) so that they run :( Soulcrusher continues.

Turn 5:
Me:
Image
I charge the rear of the soul crusher. My scouts runs off the table because he had danced their ld. away. I wither it but only down 1T. I shoot the daemonettes and the masque. In combat the masque dances me down a str., but I still kill the big nasty.

Him:
Image
He charges my GG with daemonettes and Masque and takes em out. His winds of magic kills the rest of one unit of Waywatchers.

Turn 6:
Me:
Image
I charge my wild riders at his masque and kill it. Shoot at some daemonettes.

In the end I had lost
3 units of GG, 2 units of scouts, waystalker, & 7 waywatchers

He lost all but his daemonettes and a bsb

Solid victory for me.
Last edited by ryanabt on 27 May 2014, 05:58, edited 1 time in total.
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Shay
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Re: Ryan Abt Battle Log

Post by Shay »

Congrats! Nice report and solid list. Keep them coming!
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Re: Ryan Abt Battle Log

Post by khyran »

okay I apologize for asking such an idiotic question, but what's the application you use to produce these wonderful images?

Also, how many demonettes did he have left at the end?
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Re: Ryan Abt Battle Log

Post by ryanabt »

Shay- Thanks! I have a game this weekend and I will try to get it up.

Khyran- http://battlechronicler.com/download/ is the program I use to make the reports. It is finicky because if you make a mistake you can't go back to previous turns. He had about 12 daemonettes and a bsb at the end.
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Re: Ryan Abt Battle Log

Post by Nicholas Nitro »

would you have done anything differently if it had been Ogres instead?
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Re: Ryan Abt Battle Log

Post by ryanabt »

Nicholas Nitro wrote:would you have done anything differently if it had been Ogres instead?
Not sure what you mean by this. Of course I would have taken the different units of the ogres into account and they would have changed some things, but my basic strategies and target priorities would have remained the same.
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Re: Ryan Abt Battle Log 5/27 Update

Post by ryanabt »

My updated list:
Lvl4 Shadow w/tal of prot & dispel
Lvl4 Death w/Acorn

Captain BSB w/Hail of Doom Arrow

2X10 musician; trueflight
14 musician; trueflight
5 Glade Riders Hagbane

3X5 Wild Riders
2X10 Scouts Hagbane
3 Warhawks

2X7 Waywatchers

He had:
Lord on Shieldbearer with 1+ armor

BSB w/5+ ward vs. shooting banner
2X Thanes w/spelleaters

40+ Dwarf Warriors w/GW
40+ Dwarf Warriors w/GW

2X Gyrocopters

2X Cannons
2X Organ Guns


Deployment:
Image
I deployed with everything outside of the organ gun's 30" range but tried to make it where I could move into that range and shoot or shoot at the left side cannon without moving. This would make my shots -3 for long range and hard cover. I would still get poison. The right side waywatchers had the purpose of taking out the gyros.

Turn 1:
Him:
Image
He moves up with gyros and warriors. His cannons fail to do anything to the warhawk riders.

Me:
Image
I manage to destroy the cannon and put a wound on each of the gyrocopters. I cast dwellers below but he eats it with the spelleater rune #1.

Turn 2:
Him:
Image
Due to my stupidity in not moving my waywatchers away, he is able to double charge with the gyrocopters and I don't get a wound on the stand and shoot. He kills one and charged so I lost by two but I make my leadership roll. He gets closer with his other units. His canon takes out one scout from my left and top scout unit.

Me:
Image
I charged my warhawks into his gyrocopter. I move back with my scouts. I cast wither on his block closer to my scouts but he uses the spell eater rune. It doesn't eat the spell though. I kill a few warriors with shooting. My warhawks kill one gyro but the other stays in combat and my warhawks recharge into the next one.

Turn 3:
Him:
Image
He predictably moves forward. He moves the organ guns off the hill to protect them so I couldn't just focus fire on one while outside the other's range. My warhawks don't kill his gyro, but do force him to run. He gets away.

Me:
Image
I pull my units back so that they can't get shot by the organ guns. I am able to wither his block closer to my scouts. I am abole to shoot off about 20 or so of them in the turn. My waywatchers finish off the gyro's last wounds.

Turn 4:
Him:
Image
His frustration was high at this point. He pulled out his general to try to limit my movement options. He had realized that I would be able to get away from him. His cannon takes out another scout.

Me:
Image
I tried to get as much into position as possible but couldn't get some units there. I shot off a few more of the warriors.

Turn 5:
Him:
Image
He is really out of options and tries to charge but fails to get double 6s. His cannon shoots at the hill so as to bounce into my warhawks. I don't mind cannons playing it where they pick a point that they can't see on the ground, but not have it both ways where they can shoot the top of a hill to hit what is behind it. I told him in a tourney I would have contested doing that, but since we are friends I was just telling him for tournies. Would like to hear opinions on this. He killed two warhawks.

Me:
Image
I am able to get withering on his unit again and take the unit down to 1 warrior and a thane. I also get my wild riders where they can charge flanks if some opportunity opens up.

Turn 6:
Him:
Image
I messed up with the wild riders and left myself open for a charge if he rolled a 10. He did and made it into my wild riders. He spread out his general, thane, and warrior to try to avoid all of them getting killed.

Me:
Image
He killed my wild riders and overran into the flank of others. I withered his general and then shot it, the warrior, and the thane to death.

In the end I had lost
2 units of wild riders and the warhawks

He lost a cannon, 2 gyros, a unit of 40+ warriors, a thane, and his lord on shieldbearer.

Solid victory for me.
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Re: Ryan Abt Battle Log 5/27 Update

Post by Mollesvinet »

Nice one. I must admit that i don't feel the slightest amount of pain for players who find themselves killing only one scout a turn with their cannons. Hills and cannons are a cause for headaches. I suppose you could have placed your warhawkriders further away from the hill, to make sure the bounce couldn't reach you. I do agree that it is stupid that you can shoot over a hill with a cannon in the first place though.

Too bad you got caught out by the long charge on the wild riders, but mistakes exist to learn from them. Without this mistake and the cannon debate, it would have been a flawless victory. I take it you didn't get pit of shades? It would have been very usefull on the little dwarves!
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Re: Ryan Abt Battle Log 5/27 Update

Post by Fitz »

Just to be clear on the cannnon thing:

Within the rules of the game he is entirely entitled to fire his cannon at the hill. The rules for cannon's specifically state he doesn't have to nominate a model, and make no statements about requiring line of sight to the target, just the point of range measurement. The only place you are safe from a cannon is behind impassible terrain or behind (not in..) a building. I'm not sure on what grounds you would object (other than moral ones..) in a tournament.
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Re: Ryan Abt Battle Log 5/27 Update

Post by ikadian »

Wow, that Dwarf player must've gotten pretty mad! You led him on a merry dance like a true Asrai. Well done sir, very good report.
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Re: Ryan Abt Battle Log 5/27 Update

Post by Ok Okri »

Nice. On the cannon issue, rules as written indicate you only have to be able to see the point (on the ground or on a model/terrain) where you aim the initial shot. Being able to see the model you want to kill is not necessary. However, this also means you cannot shoot a model you can see without also being able to see the paint in front of it you are aiming at (allowing you to screen monsters with units). I believe this is how it is usually played at main tournaments.
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Re: Ryan Abt Battle Log 5/27 Update

Post by ryanabt »

Mollesvinet wrote:Nice one. I must admit that i don't feel the slightest amount of pain for players who find themselves killing only one scout a turn with their cannons. Hills and cannons are a cause for headaches. I suppose you could have placed your warhawkriders further away from the hill, to make sure the bounce couldn't reach you. I do agree that it is stupid that you can shoot over a hill with a cannon in the first place though.

Too bad you got caught out by the long charge on the wild riders, but mistakes exist to learn from them. Without this mistake and the cannon debate, it would have been a flawless victory. I take it you didn't get pit of shades? It would have been very usefull on the little dwarves!

Thanks for the encouragement. I don't mind the hills and cannons. I actually thought that his use of the hill to hit my warhawks was smart, what I disagreed with was shooting his cannon over his own units to hit a point "8 inches in front of the back of..." while probably not being able to see that point on the ground and THEN choosing to target a point on the ground. I should have worded it better in my report.

For future reference I will specify at the beginning that players must see the target point (not necessarily the model) to be able to shoot at it.
Fitz wrote:Within the rules of the game he is entirely entitled to fire his cannon at the hill. The rules for cannon's specifically state he doesn't have to nominate a model, and make no statements about requiring line of sight to the target, just the point of range measurement. The only place you are safe from a cannon is behind impassible terrain or behind (not in..) a building. I'm not sure on what grounds you would object (other than moral ones..) in a tournament.
Thanks for helping me clarify. I told him that I would be more stringent with the rules on targeting points on the ground in the future. In other words that he has to see the point on the ground. He could in the case of the hill, but he had previously fired over the heads of his dwarves 3 times and probably couldn't have seen those points on the ground.

Ikadian- Thanks. He knew what he was getting into, but I don't think I will be running that list except for tournies and tourney prep in the future.
Ok Okri wrote:Nice. On the cannon issue, rules as written indicate you only have to be able to see the point (on the ground or on a model/terrain) where you aim the initial shot. Being able to see the model you want to kill is not necessary. However, this also means you cannot shoot a model you can see without also being able to see the paint in front of it you are aiming at (allowing you to screen monsters with units). I believe this is how it is usually played at main tournaments.
Yes, I will make sure to talk about it with opponents before play in the future. I knew the rule and in friendly games don't normally say anything, but it was the combination of a player with cannons using the point on the ground rule for himself by using the hill but not using it when shooting over his own guys heads that got to me.
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Re: Ryan Abt Battle Log 5/27 Update

Post by ryanabt »

I have a tourney tomorrow and would love some input on the list.

Lord
Spellweaver Lvl 4; Shadow
Talisman of Preservation; Moonstone of the Hidden Ways
Spellweaver Lvl 3; Heavens
Acorn

Hero
Captain BSB; Starfire Arrows
Hail of Doom Arrow
Spellsinger Lvl 1; Metal
Dispel Scroll

Core
10 Glade Guard Musician; Banner; Trueflight Arrows
10 Glade Guard Musician; Banner; Trueflight Arrows
10 Glade Guard Musician; Banner; Standard of Discipline Trueflight Arrows
5 Glade Riders Hagbane Arrows

Special
5 Wild Riders Banner; Shields
5 Wild Riders Banner; Shields
3 Warhawk Riders
10 Deepwood Scouts Hagbane Arrows
10 Deepwood Scouts Hagbane Arrows
Special Subtotal 755

Rare
7 Waywatchers
7 Waywatchers
Total 2499
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Re: Ryan Abt Battle Log 5/27 Update

Post by Q10fanatic »

No Sister-Mage-bunker? I like all the shooting you have in there. Will your mages be safe with no fast cav bunker or EG block to hold up units?
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Re: Ryan Abt Battle Log 5/27 Update

Post by loki0486 »

From the looks of it I hope you plan on Waystoning those casters around to keep them out of charges, because as it stands they seem very vunerable as you have no solid stand an fight unit. I like the list and it's shootiness just be ready for some potential backlash of rather burned enemy generals on the aspect that you will be dancing around them some.
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Re: Ryan Abt Battle Log 5/27 Update

Post by Beithir Seun »

The only comment I'd offer is to question the Starfire Arrows on the BSB and the Standard of Discipline on the Glade Guard - why are they there?

Once he's fired the HoDA, the BSB will only be getting one shot per turn, and Starfire arrows will only prove useful against particular armies anyway.

Given that you'll likely have Ld9 from your Spellweaver and a reroll from your BSB, I don't really see the need for the Standard of Discipline, especially on a Glade Guard unit.


If you dropped the Starfire Arrows and Standard of Discipline, that would give you enough points to put the Bow of Loren on your BSB. I haven't done the maths, but I think four unenchanted shots would work out better than a single shot with a +1 to wound only against certain armies...
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Re: Ryan Abt Battle Log 5/27 Update

Post by ryanabt »

Q10fanatic- I haven't had my mage die in my 6 8th ed. games so far. I generally try to moonstoning away the block with her in it. It generally keeps her safe. I have another list with sisters, but haven't used them yet and don't want to experiment too much during a tourney. I use the acorn with venom thicket to hold up units. I also use the scouts and waywatchers to harass the enemy into being slower or losing focus.

Loki0486- I am used to having to get those guys out of danger by dancing them around or by moonstoning them or shadow my lvl4 away if need be. I have actually been amazed that I haven't had my lvl 4 block get into combat in 6 games.

Beithir Seun- I would love to see the math on the bow of loren vs. starfire. The idea for that is simply to get the chance wound on a regen monster. If I get that wound then I go all out with shooting on it. It is only 4 points. Regarding the Standard of Discipline, I have it for the ld.10 as that will be where my lvl 4 is for as much of the battle as possible. It is 15 points and I have to have banners anyway as one of the scenarios gets bonus points based off banners. I will consider a different use of that 15 points. However, if I take off the banner, I need 5 more points in core.
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Re: Ryan Abt Battle Log 5/27 Update

Post by ryanabt »

I am considering making the lvl 3 a metal mage and dropping the lvl 1 for some eagles.
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Re: Ryan Abt Battle Log

Post by Nicholas Nitro »

ryanabt wrote:
Nicholas Nitro wrote:would you have done anything differently if it had been Ogres instead?
Not sure what you mean by this. Of course I would have taken the different units of the ogres into account and they would have changed some things, but my basic strategies and target priorities would have remained the same.
No, you answered my question, and I basically used your demon battle as a loose template for my ogre game. Thanks for the post.
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Re: Ryan Abt Battle Log

Post by ryanabt »

Nicholas Nitro wrote:
ryanabt wrote:
Nicholas Nitro wrote:would you have done anything differently if it had been Ogres instead?
Not sure what you mean by this. Of course I would have taken the different units of the ogres into account and they would have changed some things, but my basic strategies and target priorities would have remained the same.
No, you answered my question, and I basically used your demon battle as a loose template for my ogre game. Thanks for the post.
How did it go? Anything we can learn from your experience?
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Re: Ryan Abt Battle Log

Post by Nicholas Nitro »

How did it go? Anything we can learn from your experience?[/quote]


I actually won with a clean sweep. Only lost 2 GG models from a unit of 12, thanks to hagbane-tips and lucky dice rolls.
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Re: Ryan Abt Battle Log 5/27 Update

Post by ryanabt »

Battle Report 1

So I forgot to take my camera so that I could use battlechronicler to make pictures. Instead of a normal battle reports I will just give brief updates.

I ended up taking this list to the tourney:

Spellweaver Lvl 4; Shadow
Talisman of Endurance; Moonstone of the Hidden Ways; Dispel
Spellweaver Lvl 3; Metal
Acorn

Hero
Captain BSB
Hail of Doom Arrow

Core
10 Glade Guard Musician; Banner; Trueflight Arrows
10 Glade Guard Musician; Banner; Trueflight Arrows
10 Glade Guard Musician; Banner; Standard of Discipline Trueflight Arrows
5 Glade Riders Hagbane Arrows

Special
5 Wild Riders Banner; Shields
5 Wild Riders Banner; Shields
3 Warhawk Riders
10 Deepwood Scouts Hagbane Arrows
10 Deepwood Scouts Hagbane Arrows

Rare
7 Waywatchers
7 Waywatchers
Eagle
Eagle

Terrain for all 3 Games was the same. With a Building, trees, and hill on each side of the board.

Game 1: VS Lizards
His List:
Ethereal High magic Slaan
Carnosaur scarvet
cold one scarvet

2X20 Saurus
3X10 Skinks
1 Blastiladon
1 Salamander
1 Ancient
1 Engine
Important Game Events-
I managed to kill a steggie in turn 2 and had 2 wounds on the slaan in turn 1 (he healed 1 back).
I charged a salamander off the board (he fled) and hit a unit of skinks with some warhawks on one flank. The other flank I used the wildriders to kill another unit of skinks.
Turn 3 I killed his carnosaur
Then it turned.
I made a mistake of charging glade riders into his blastiladon which allowed him to reface toward my recently moonstoned unit with 2 mages and 10 GG. He made a 14" charge. He killed 7, so I still had a rank. YAY! I figured I would just have to lose the unit and shadow my mage away on my turn. Oh wait, I tried to cast miasma w/2 dice and rolled double ones.
With no defense against magic, he cast conflagration twice on the last two turns. He rolled a 17" and a 14" and killed a total of 5 units with it. I did manage to take out a unit of saurus and skinks with some wild riders.

Notable-
Failed to wound the cold one riding scarvet w/5 turns of shooting with a unit of waywatchers & a charge by warhawks.
I should either have focused on the slaan or not. I didn't help myself by doing it halfway.

Game 2: Vs Empire- Meeting Engagement scenario

His List:
General 1+ armor
Lvl 4 Life

Warrior Priest
BSB Captain
Engineer

40 or so halberdiers w/shields
14 archers
16 or so knights (to come on as reinforcements)
20 Greatswords
2 cannons
4 Demigryphs
3 Demigryphs

1 Helblaster

Important Game Events-
He left plenty of places to scout and I put my scouts behind his warmachines. where they shot the helblaster off the table in the first turn.
I flank charged his 4 demigryphs in turn 2 or 3 and soon crushed them. Overran into his greatswords and was destroying them. Rear charged them with warhawks and KBd his BSB.
He dwellers Bellowed my unit with lvl 4 but thankfully didn't fail it. I moonstoned away with characters and stayed the heck away the rest of the game.
His knights came on turn 2 behind my scouts. I moved waywatchers away but left some scouts to get charged.
Eagle killed a cannon and engineer
Shot his knights to death. Then withered his halberdiers and killed all of them, just leaving the characters in turn 6.

Notable-
Not much. my list worked to a T and he made tons of mistakes.

Game 3: Vs WOC

His List-
Tzeentch Lvl4 on Disc w/3++ reroll 1s
BSB on Daemonic Mount

2X5 hounds
20 Warriors
2 Chariots

2X4 Juggernaughts
2 Chimera

Important Game Events-
Couldn't get enough wounds on his Chimera in the first turn in spite of almost everything going at it...uh oh.
His chimera breath weaponed me on turn 2 and I killed him the next turn.
His other chimera breath weaponed me on turn 3 and then charged some GG the next turn. He overran into waywatchers who managed to kill him (I had cast withering on my turn 5 to get him to T3)
My Lvl 4 cast wither on the chimera (4 dice) with Irresistible force...and lost 3 levels...DOH.
Due to my weakened defenses in magic, he killed my moonstoning waywatchers (with BSB & Lvl 4). The final turn (we were tied in points) he killed my BSB & Lvl 4 with bolt of change on BSB and then he rolled boxcars on his infernal gateway on my lvl 4...Game Over
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Re: Ryan Abt Battle Log 5/27 Update

Post by bjoernuhlig »

so your lvl 4 was with the waywatchers, to moonstone around? I like that, you still get to shoot after "moonmarching" and to cast out of a wood.

Isn't it nice to get the +1 in woods for all lores? I think thats one hell of a buff.
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Re: Ryan Abt Battle Log 5/27 Update

Post by ryanabt »

bjoernuhlig wrote:so your lvl 4 was with the waywatchers, to moonstone around? I like that, you still get to shoot after "moonmarching" and to cast out of a wood.

Isn't it nice to get the +1 in woods for all lores? I think thats one hell of a buff.
Having the lvl4 with the waywatchers wasn't my first choice. I start her with the GG and then moved into the waywatchers to get away.
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