1500 point tournament list

Discuss your latest army list or composition, or ideas on how to create your next tournament-winning army.

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rawdogg15
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1500 point tournament list

Post by rawdogg15 »

I've been looking for some advice on this on various forums but have only just discovered Asrai - the perfect place for it! I'm looking to make a bold switch from Orcs and Goblins to Wood Elves for my next tournament and could really use some guidance since the play style shift is fairly severe. What do you think?

Spellweaver: Talisman of Preservation; Dispel Scroll; Level 4 Wizard; Lore of High Magic; Asrai longbow; Elven Steed 315

Glade Captain: Hail of Doom Arrow; Luckstone; shield; trueflight arrows; Elven Steed; Battle Standard Bearer 150

12 Glade Guard: trueflight arrows; musician; standard bearer 200
12 Glade Guard: trueflight arrows; musician; standard bearer 200

8 Sisters of the Thorn: Handmaiden of the Thorn; musician; standard bearer (Lichebone Pennant) 253
5 Deepwood Scouts: hagbane tips 80

5 Waywatchers 100
5 Waywatchers 100
1 Great Eagle 50
1 Great Eagle 50

1,498 points

I'm thinking that the shooting units whittle down as many points as possible for the first few turns whilst the sisters stay out of harms way and fire off magic as far as possible. Am I barking up a semi-reasonable tree?
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Re: 1500 point tournament list

Post by Phil Rossiter »

I think it might struggle to kill things, which would help slow the enemy down. The obvious change is to swap the Sisters for Wild Riders and maybe run the lvl4 High on a Unicorn. Possibly keep the Sisters and switch to Death or Shadow. But it's not a bad list, maybe just play it and see if any changes are needed then.
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Re: 1500 point tournament list

Post by Aezeal »

lvl 4 on foot in GG, BSB too, 6 WR instead of the sisters. One unit of GG should get HB for all comers I think. Not sure I'd bother with standards on the GG. Remaining points in more scouts or more WW. 1500 points can pack quite some warmachines and 5 scouts is not enough I think. 2 eagles can help WM hunting.. but I'd go for more scouts in addition to that.
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Re: 1500 point tournament list

Post by rawdogg15 »

Thanks for replies so far folks. I'll take this opportunity to explain a couple of things, as the list has been through a few evolutions already. I originally had the lord and BSB on foot but felt they were a little vulnerable in a GG unit so put them in with the sisters for protection as much as anything. As a mobile unit, I also reckoned that they would be able to get the wizard into range more easily to cast damaging magic and that by using lore of high, I would also generate protection counters to ignore wounds on them. The other reason for sisters over wild riders was because I didn't want that unit failing frenzy checks and charging off into deathstars randomly. The reason for the banners in the GG is because I'll be playing rulebook scenarios and if B&G comes up I will presently have a fortitude of 6. I wouldn't want to go much lower than this tbh. I realise that the list will struggle to kill things and most of the time I will be chasing small wins through points denial. If the WW, scouts and GG can del with things like war machines and chaff early though, I feel that I might be able to win out through sheer weight of numbers and pressure. It's all about keeping that sisters unit alive until turn 5/6.

It's interesting to see how advice from different people varies. On another forum I was advised to drop the scouts entirely! Looking forward to play testing it as I will be picking up the models next week.

On that note, does anyone have any good ideas for converting a spellweaver or a BSB so that they are mounted? Can't find a model I like in the GW range or online anywhere.

Thanks
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Re: 1500 point tournament list

Post by frenchi861 »

Hi,

I played some games at 1500 and here is my thought:

-2 Eagles might be to much at this point level. One was always enough for me.
-My BSB was always HoDA, shield, spear on a steed inside 5 sisters. He will not go to much in CC, exept when you wants too normaly.
-With the points you win and minus the scouts you should be able to take wild riders, it's worth it.

If you want to see, I have a few battle report at 1500 in the forum.
My Blog: http://renowargamingblog.blogspot.com/ Reno's Wargaming Blog (Battle Report, Painting, Showcase...)
rawdogg15
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Re: 1500 point tournament list

Post by rawdogg15 »

Massive changes to this list. I still haven't bought any models so any advice on this will still be really handy. I have decided to go proper mobile MSU:

Spellweaver: Level 4, Lore of High, Opal Amulet, Dispel scroll, HODA, Asrai Longbow, Eagle

10 Glade Guard: Standard, Musician, Trueflight Arrows
10 Glade Guard: Standard, Musician, Trueflight Arrows
10 Glade Guard: Standard, Musician, Trueflight Arrows

5 Wild Riders: Wild Hunter
5 Deepwood Scouts: Standard, Musician, Hagbane Tips
3 Warhawk Riders: Wind Rider

8 Waywatchers
Great Eagle
Great Eagle

Apart from the Lord, no one unit is worth more than 170 points. The lord on the eagle is a risk but, providing he survives turn 1 with the one with the one off 4++, movement and High Magic should keep him safe with the tokens. Outside of that, I wanted to include as many war machine threats as possible and also wanted to put together an army that would look really good on the table.

It's definitely not orthodox (which I also like). Would be interested to hear further thoughts.
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Re: 1500 point tournament list

Post by Hyarion »

Looks good, but I would trade one unit of GG +Trueflight to GG +Hagbane (Or find a way to add a second unit of Wild Riders).
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rawdogg15
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Re: 1500 point tournament list

Post by rawdogg15 »

I had wondered about both of those possibilities. I have another key question that might resolve it too - Do I get poisoned shots when standing in a venom thicket or is it just close combat attacks that benefit? It sort of seems too good to be true but I know WE generals who have played it this way.

I would love to find room for more wild riders but it would probably mean dropping the warhawks, who I now don't want to do without. I'll probably build ten wild riders anyway as I hope to be playing larger points games at some point anyway.
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Re: 1500 point tournament list

Post by Hyarion »

BRB Page 120:

"Any model in a Venom Thicket has the Poisoned Attacks special rule (applies to close combat attacks only)....."
So no go on that one.

I would not drop the warhawks, but given that you have an Eagle mounted character, scouts, warhawk riders, waywatchers, AND 2 eagles, I think there is definitely some play there *if you want it*.

I like this list, it's a little off the beaten path and I love the mobility. I would play the list as is (with one unit of GG moved to Hagbane) and see how you like it. If you think it needs more punch, then try to work in the second WR.

Good luck!
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If you refuse to capitalize on your strengths or make the most of your opponent's weaknesses, you are begging to lose.
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razorfate
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Re: 1500 point tournament list

Post by razorfate »

Hi there,

I would add BSB ( and give him the HODA, Spellweaver's ballistic skill is poor for a 30 point item), our models are very expensive to be lost on a unlucky leadership test.
I would go for 2 units of gg for the core tax, i would not spend more points than necessary for the core tax.
I would definetly take the std and musician away from the scouts, there is absoulutely no need.
I would take only one great eagle.
High magic alone is a poor choice for us. If you want high magic i would take an additional spellsinger or spellweaver, but in this points army list i would take shadıw or death.
Sister unit is a solid bunker for the spellweaver and BSB. Much more useful than 3 warhawks.
Do not mount your general on eagle if you want staying power.
Your first list was bettter than this (of course if you want an optimised army rather than a fluffy one)
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Re: 1500 point tournament list

Post by rawdogg15 »

So mixed advice... Razorfate, you're obviously more experienced with the race than I am but I'm not convinced that latest build is fluffy as such. It might be fragile but it is meant to be proper MSU. As such, my units are likely to be all over the board most of the time, making the effect of a BSB limited. I'm also not sure I see Wood Elves as an army that has a "core-tax" as such. If I didn't have to take any core at all, I think I'd still want some blocks of trueflight in there which is more than I can say for other armies' core choices, my VC being a case in point!

Could you possibly elaborate on why high magic is a poor choice? I'm open to alternatives but the point of it in my mind is not so much the spells (which I'd say are reasonable) but the lore attribute which will be the main method by which I would keep The lord alive, especially if I keep him/her on an eagle - staying power is not the idea with this army, it's avoidance. I'm not expecting to grind with anyone.

The banner and muso in the scouts are because fortitude will play a significant part in the tournament I'm attending. 6 fortitude just seems a lot better than 5 in my head.

I may well take your advice on the HODA and the second great eagle because dropping them could just about get me another unit of something.

Thanks for your input. I do appreciate it and don't want it to seem like I'm just dismissing it after you went to the trouble of replying. I'll probably play test it as it is but if that doesn't go well, you may well see me rocking a sisters bunker with a BSB, two units of wild riders and a lord on shadow magic! :wink:
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Re: 1500 point tournament list

Post by razorfate »

Hi there:)

Let me clarify myself. First of all i like high magic and use it in the majority if my games. But high magic alone will not earn you points as it is not an offensive lore. High magic is a good lore for defence and utility but you will not have the punching power of the death, shadow ( and metal for heavily armed armies.) If you like high magic like me, then take another spellcaster (spellweaver for shadow and death, spellsinger for metal). What i want to emphisize is magic is a strong asset of wood elves due to high number of lores to choose from, fast cavalary magic users who gets +1 to cast any spell if you stay on woods. We have to dominate the magic phase.

I also use the trueflight glade guard. But glade guard is slow and easy to hit and to be engaged compared to deeowood scouts who are only 1 point expensive compared to glade guard. 1 point gives you skirmish and scout rule. That makes glade guard very expensive comparing to deep wood scouts.

Sister unit is a very good bunker not onlydue to their fast cavalary rule or 4++ ward save but also due to very goo hex that can win you games. Curse of Anrehir spell not only gives -1 to hit penalty but it messes with your opponent"s movement phase.
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Re: 1500 point tournament list

Post by Aezeal »

I would agree with some things said:

Agreeing with Razor on the following:
GG are great. BUT scouts are way better. Only get minimum GG then make the rest scouts. The skirmisher and scout special rules are VERY good for deployment and mobility (march and shoot and free reforms combined are awesome for dancing around units. Moving 10" backwards (free reform facing backwards, march 10 inch, free reform facing the enemy again) instead of 3 is major)). Also they can be deployed in units of 5.. to maximize MSU strats (2 turn or 2 units needed to kill them - when charged they will probably die anyway). AND if they are in a forest and are not whiped out their stubborn or steadfast etc might even keep them tying up the enemy another turn.
Also no need for command in the scouts (certainly not music) which makes them earn the extra points back right away.

Agreeing with Hyarion on the following:
I'd also make 1 (or even 2) of the GG units HB because I think they are very usefull in a lot of situations.

Not sure about:
About the BSB: you are right that many troops will be across the board BUT the 3 GG units will probably not be moving very much and the WR will probably be near them too. The BSB might be worth it.

Not agreeing with:
The suggestion to get a lvl 4 + sisters AND an additional lvl 2 in 1500 points.
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Re: 1500 point tournament list

Post by rawdogg15 »

Had a bit of practise with this style of list today and man I love MSU! I never thought not engaging would be so much fun. Fiery convocation and soul quench did a lot more damage than the shooting but the shooting certainly supported it. The Lord on eagle proved quite survivable and the absence of a BSB only mattered once and that was because of a mistake.

Thoughts going forward then are to drop the HODA altogether along with the command in the scouts and warhawks in order to add either another unit of scouts or more waywatchers, might even try to make room for second unit of wild riders. Will make one of the GG units poisonous but otherwise I'm quite encouraged by the list at present. At 1500 it is always difficult to get everything you want in. Definitely feeling as though this has the movement and firepower to at least get draws and small wins, which is a lot more than I am used to getting with my VC and OnG!
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Re: 1500 point tournament list

Post by rawdogg15 »

I've now had a smaller points game in which I took a list similar to my 1500 point list but at 1000 points. I was playing against an Empire army. I have never beaten Empire at any points level with any other army and I have never beaten the player I was facing.

Long story short, I won. :D

My biggest concession to drop to 1000 points was to have a level 2 on an eagle instead of the level 4. My opponent had a block of knights with a lv4 life wizard, a block of inner circle knights with Runefang lord, three demigryphs and a canon. Crucially, I won first turn and hid the lv2 from the canon until I could charge the canon with scouts. The waywatchers deleted the inner circle knights and then I danced like a teenager on prom night until the game was over. All he killed of mine was the great eagle.

High magic didn't do very much to be fair. With only a level2, it was really difficult to accrue tokens and the two spells I rolled were pretty useless against this army (Soul Quench and Tempest). I genuinely think that a level 4 would make all the difference here though and even without the tokens, my spellsinger never even took a hit.

Really looking forward to the future with this list!
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Re: 1500 point tournament list

Post by chickenbane »

Unfortunately you cannot take High magic on a level 2.

In a recent game against WoC I took this list:

Glade Lord, Armour of Fortune, Obsidian Amulet, Sword of Anti Heroes, Longbow, Elven Steed, Shield.
Glade Captain, Battle Standard Bearer, Hail of Doom Arrow, Charmed Shield, Dragonbane Gem, Longbow, Spear, Great Eagle called Swooping Death.
Spellsinger, Scroll of Shielding, Talisman of Endurance, Level 2 Lore of Metal


12 x Glade Guard, Champion, Musician, Standard

8 x Glade Riders, Glade Knight, Musician, Standard Bearer, Hagbane Tips.

6 x Wild Riders, Champion.

5 x Wild Riders, Champion

6 x Waywatchers

I won against a filthy list ;Battle report. One thing I found that the single level 2 wasn't overly disadvantaged as she spent most of the game flitting between two woods. The Unicorn gave her an extra wound so effectively she was Spellweaver who had lost two magic levels just before the game! :D If I was to redo my list I possible drop the Glade Lord to get a mounted Death mage in there and hopefully another eagle.
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rawdogg15
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Re: 1500 point tournament list

Post by rawdogg15 »

chickenbane wrote:Unfortunately you cannot take High magic on a level 2.
I forgot to mention, because I was practising for using the bigger list, my opponent allowed me to use high magic on the lv2. To be honest, it doesn't work. She needs the extra wizard levels. Think I would take lore of metal or maybe death next time.
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Re: 1500 point tournament list

Post by rawdogg15 »

The 1000 point version of this list has now played 3, won 3. Typical! I find an army and set up I like and am good with just as eighth is about to die :cry:
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