Need help with 2400 points list (ETC restriction)

[frenchi861]

Hi everyone,

I have been reading this forum a lot lately. I plan on starting to partcipate in some tournement where I live, and I would like to build a list to know what should I buy next. Tournement in Shanghai respect the ETC restriction and rules (means hills, impassible and building blocking LoS) so it's much easier to play with big monsters. I also know that I will be facing mainly High Elves, Vampire, Chaos (all form). My goal is to try to make a list I like but also competitive enough. I made this list based on @Mollesvinet and @Phil Rossiter combat list. I tryed before the Darkweaver list but didn't like it to much. So, here is the list:

2400 Pts - Wood Elves Roster

Spellweaver (2#, 350 pts)
. . 1 Spellweaver, 350 pts
. . . . 1 Dispel Scroll
. . . . 1 Talisman of Preservation
. . . . 1 Unicorn

Spellweaver (1#, 285 pts)
. . 1 Spellweaver,
. . . . 1 Fencer's Blades
. . . . 1 Talisman of Endurance

Shadowdancer (1#, 125 pts)
. . 1 Shadowdancer,
. . . . 1 Glittering Scales

Glade Captain (1#, 145 pts)
. . 1 Glade Captain,
. . . . 1 Obsidian Lodestone

So, for Lords and Heroes, I go for a Highweaver on Unicorn as a general. He can be usefull, some of the spells can help me and with the terrain blocking LoS he can hide. He can also help in CC after a few turn.
The second is a Beastweaver that goes in the EG. He is here to buff the EG, Characteres and Amber Spear.
The Shadowdancer is the Challenger. The -1 to hit is usefull against everyone. Also, he will be buffed with all the Beast Spells!
The Glade Captain on foot inside EG will be in the second rank. Going first rank if I can get some spell of with the Beastweaver.

So, the charactere is basicly @Mollesvinet list but changing the Heavenweaver for the Unicorn because I think he can survive better and act as a unit on his own. Also, I have one less Shadowdancer.


Eternal Guard (25#, 320 pts)
. . 25 Eternal Guard, Full Command,
. . . . 1 Banner of Swiftness

Glade Guard (18#, 280 pts)
. . 18 Glade Guard, Musicien, Trueflight Arrow

So, here nothing special. The block of EG and the Truflight Arrow. I go for Trueflight as I prefere this on the GG. The will spend time in the back and behind able to shoot throught cover, inside building.... might be more usefull for a "not really" mobil unit.


Wild Riders (5#, 150 pts)
. . 5 Wild Riders, 150 pts (Standard Bearer Std; Shield)

Wild Riders (5#, 150 pts)
. . 5 Wild Riders, 150 pts (Standard Bearer Std; Shield)

Deepwood Scouts (5#, 80 pts)
. . 5 Deepwood Scouts (Hagbane Tips)

Deepwood Scouts (5#, 80 pts)
. . 5 Deepwood Scouts (Hagbane Tips)

So, 2x5 Hangbane Scoouts, nothing special again here. And only 2x5 WR, because I didn't have the point for one or two more in each unit. I don't think 5 it's enough.


Great Eagle (1#, 50 pts)
. . 1 Great Eagle

Waywatchers (8#, 160 pts)
. . 8 Waywatchers

The Eagle is gold, I used him in all my games and everytime he gets kill but for the greater good. And 8 WW that can benefit from the Hand of Glory of the Highweaver.
Now, I wax thinking of taking a Treeman and thats bring the list at 2400. I like the model but I questioning is utility in this list. Well, he can catch some canon ball for my Highweaver, he also give me some high S attack. @Phil Rossiter reports make me want to take one. I don't have enough point to make him a Ancient (I would love too)

So here is my option:

Treeman (1#, 225 pts)
. . 1 Treeman, 225 pts

Or

Bring the WR to 6, Another Shadowdancer, Maybe Crown of Command on the Highweaver. More shooting.


My comment on my own list: I think it's not bad, this list should has a chance but I feel is not enough shooting (what is enough shooting with WE). I have a Combat Block (EG), 2 units with punch (WR), Shooting (GG, Scouts, WW) and the Unicorn that can help where needed. If I take the Treeman, he can be the Unicorn or EG bodyguard.

So, what do you think?

[frenchi861]

First list didn't bring a lot of comment. Here is something I thought about. It's link to the discussion about WWR.


Spellweaver (2#, 350 pts)
1 Spellweaver, 350 pts (General; Level 4 Wizard, Lore of High)
1 Dispel Scroll
1 Talisman of Preservation 4++
1 Unicorn

Spellweaver (1#, 320 pts)
1 Spellweaver, 320 pts (Level 4 Wizard, Lore of Life)
1 Fencer's Blades
1 Talisman of Endurance 5++
1 Crown of Command

Glade Captain (1#, 158 pts)
1 Glade Captain, 158 pts (Battle Standard Bearer; Great Weapon; Starfire Shafts)
1 Armour of Destiny 4++

Glade Guard (18#, 290 pts)
18 Glade Guard, 290 pts (Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Trueflight Arrows)

Glade Guard (10#, 160 pts)
10 Glade Guard, 160 pts (Musician Mus; Hagbane Tips)

Glade Guard (10#, 160 pts)
10 Glade Guard, 160 pts (Musician Mus; Hagbane Tips)

Wildwood Rangers (30#, 375 pts)
29 Wildwood Rangers, 375 pts (Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std)
1 Wildwood Warden
1 Banner of Swiftness

Wild Riders (6#, 178 pts)
6 Wild Riders, 178 pts (Standard Bearer Std; Shield)

Wild Riders (6#, 178 pts)
6 Wild Riders, 178 pts (Standard Bearer Std; Shield)


Great Eagle (1#, 50 pts)
1 Great Eagle, 50 pts

Waywatchers (9#, 180 pts)
9 Waywatchers, 180 pts


This list is a little bit diferent. Lifeweaver goes inside the WWR with the BSB. Highweaver run solo. WWR will be the main CC unit with WR trying to flank. Normally, the Trueflight will deploy behind the WWR and shoot through them while the Hangbane will try to deploy in front of monsters or warmachine. The WWR will deploy 10 wide at the begining and reforming to 7 wide if I start to loose some guys.

I think this list has enough shooting to make the opponent move to come to me. I also think that I am strong in everyphase. And with 2 lv4, I should have choose during my magic phase. I like High because it gives you a bit of everything.

Now, I could change the Lifeweaver for a lv2 beast (for Wysan) on foot in a unit of Scouts with some Arcane Item. Or maybe another lore? I don't know, what do you think?

Again, any comment are welcome.

[Aezeal]

I think life is underestimated. Just try this first. With throne flesh to stone makes units nigh unkillable.. I've seen my T7 GG stand up to combat characters and just tie in combat, on WWR it would mean you would get 1-2 wounds and then massacre the enemy. Also 6 dicing dwellers with diminished risks in miscasting is nice.

[Phil Rossiter]

First list is close enough to Mollesvinet's that we know it should work. Treeman is interesting, he may need to be hidden sometimes until you've dealt with cannon. Unicorn looks promising here, should get the mage close enough to use those short-ranged spells.

The main problem I see with the second list is a lack of attacks over S5. The BSB has 3S6 but without re-rolls. If a character with great saves gets into the Rangers or WR's he may just chew them up. The first list has the Beasts buffs to deal with this kind of thing. It might be worth switching the Unicorn guy out for a more aggressive Lore.

[ScottyDo]

I really like this last. I think you threaten in all phases and have a lot of flexibility.

[Aezeal]

First list is close enough to Mollesvinet's that we know it should work. Treeman is interesting, he may need to be hidden sometimes until you've dealt with cannon. Unicorn looks promising here, should get the mage close enough to use those short-ranged spells.

The main problem I see with the second list is a lack of attacks over S5. The BSB has 3S6 but without re-rolls. If a character with great saves gets into the Rangers or WR's he may just chew them up. The first list has the Beasts buffs to deal with this kind of thing. It might be worth switching the Unicorn guy out for a more aggressive Lore.

S6 is only needed vs T7 or 1+ AS.. T7 is not that common and AS can be dealt with by waywatchers.
can't remember ever playing with S6 in my army.

[Phil Rossiter]

AS can be dealt with by waywatchers.

To some extent, yes. But what about multiple WoC characters? Or Peg spam? Or Scar-vets approaching in infantry? Or Star Dragon? The Ranger Horde is 375pts less of the usual counters we have to these things.

[Aezeal]

Well..I don't play with melee at all . Only WR and sisters on dragon last games

[frenchi861]

I made some Mathammer to see the damage output between Eternal Guards and Wildwood Rangers. All the unit are 330 points (more o less). No buff from magic, banner or other have been used. I only take the stats of the unit. Also, I try to take into account the numbers of model in base contact.

For every kind of opponent, I used this:
EG5: Eternal Guards 5 Wide
EG7: Eternal Guards 7 Wide (didn't do 10 wide as you need more than 30 to have the fourth rank attacking)
WWR7: Wildwood Rangers 7 Wide
WWR10: Wildwood Rangers 10 Wide

I also take into account the fear factor for the WWR, and apply that the EG succed their fear test all the time.

Against 24 PlagueBearers:
EG5: 11.25 Hits, 3.75 Wounds, 2.5 Unsaved Wound, 3,33 dead EG,
EG7: 15.75 Hits, 5.25 Wounds, 3.5 Unsaved Wound, 3,33 dead EG,
WWR7: 15.75 Hits, 10.5 Wounds, 7 Unsaved Wound, 3,33 dead WWR,
WWR10: 21 Hits, 14 Wounds, 9.33 Unsaved Wound, 3,33 dead WWR,

30 Greatsword in horde:
EG5: 13.33 Hits, 6.67 Wounds, 4.44 Unsaved Wound, 6.25 dead EG,
EG7: 18.67 Hits, 9.33 Wounds, 6.22Unsaved Wound, 7.41 dead EG,
WWR7: 9.33 Hits, 7.77 Wounds, 6.48 Unsaved Wound, 8.07 dead WWR,
WWR10: 20 Hits, 16.67 Wounds, 13.89 Unsaved Wound, 11.25 dead WWR,

Against 5 Demigryph:
EG5: 13.33 Hits, 4.44 Wounds, 0.74Unsaved Wound, 8.71dead EG
EG7: 18.67 Hits, 6.22Wounds, 1.04 Unsaved Wound, 11.25 dead EG
WWR7: 14 Hits, 9.33 Wounds, 3.11 Unsaved Wound, 9.86 dead WWR
WWR10: 26.67 Hits, 17.78 Wounds, 5.93 Unsaved Wound, 7.31 dead WWR

26 White Lion 7 wide:
EG5: 11.25 Hits, 5.63 Wounds, 4.69 Unsaved Wound, 8.75 dead EG
EG7: 15.75 Hits, 7.88 Wounds, 6.56 Unsaved Wound, 8.52 dead EG
WWR7: 7 Hits, 5.83 Wounds, 5.83 Unsaved Wound, 8.75 dead WWR,
WWR10: 13.5 Hits, 11.25 Wounds, 11.25 Unsaved Wound, 8.75 dead WWR,

10 Ogre, 3 wide:
EG5: 13.33 Hits, 4.44 Wounds, 1.48 Unsaved Wound, 6 dead EG
EG7: 18.67 Hits, 6.22 Wounds, 2.07 Unsaved Wound, 6 dead EG
WWR7: 14 Hits, 9.33 Wounds, 7.78 Unsaved Wound, 6 dead WWR,
WWR10: 26.66 Hits, 17.78 Wounds, 14.81 Unsaved Wound, 6 dead WWR,

20 Chaos Warriors shield Tzentch, 5 wide:
EG5: 11.25 Hits, 3.75 Wounds, 1.25 Unsaved Wound, 6.67 dead EG
EG7: 15.75 Hits, 5.25 Wounds, 1.75 Unsaved Wound, 6.67 dead EG
WWR7: 7 Hits, 4.67 Wounds, 2.07 Unsaved Wound, 6.67 dead WWR,
WWR10: 10.5 Hits, 7 Wounds, 3.11 Unsaved Wound, 6.67 dead WWR,

Chaos Lord on Disk, Tzentch 1+ and 3++:
EG5: 6 Hits, 1 Wounds, 0.06 Unsaved Wound, 4.86 dead EG
EG7: 6 Hits, 1 Wounds, 0.06 Unsaved Wound, 4.86 dead EG
WWR7: 6 Hits, 3 Wounds, 0,5 Unsaved Wound, dead 4,75 WWR,
WWR10: 8 Hits, 4 Wounds, 0,67 Unsaved Wound, 4,68 dead WWR,

14 Knight of the Realm:
EG5: 13.33 Hits, 6.67 Wounds, 1.48 Unsaved Wound, 1,88 dead EG
EG7: 13.33 Hits, 6.67 Wounds, 1.48 Unsaved Wound, 1,88 dead EG
WWR7: 6.67 Hits, 5.56 Wounds, 1.85 Unsaved Wound, dead 1,88 WWR,
WWR10: 10 Hits, 8,33 Wounds, 2,78 Unsaved Wound, 1,88 dead WWR,


So, we an see that, even with less attack, WWR put more damage against everything (exept the White Lions). The Disk Lord is really hard to kill for everything, same for Warriors. What would help the WWR is anything that help them hit more, and the EG really need more S. I didn't do it but I might try to see with Wysan on (EG and WWR) or Enchanted Blade.
Another think is that, if I had to play EG or WWR, I will deploy them at least 7 wide most of the time. 10 wide for the WWR if I can, but I don't see the point EG 5 wide as you are Studborn (don't care about steadfast) and if you want combat resull, 6 attacks might give you more CR than 1 more rank.

[Aezeal]

How can the disk lord to more damage against WWR 7 than to WWR10.. seems to make no sense. Nothing in those rolls changes since the lord doesn't die. Same for their damage output since base contact will be maxed anyway.

Same for the dead EG difference against 26 WL.

[frenchi861]

Actually, I made a mistake for the dead Wood Elves numbers. Others are right.

[Phil Rossiter]

EG are hopeless for inflicting major damage unless Mindrazored or in Venom Thicket and even then not vs armour. That's not their job IMHO. Rangers are the best option we have for this but they have issues. With High, Life, Stubborn Crown etc we can make sure they don't run and try to win on attrition. At the end of the day though, some things will hold S5 without re-rolls up for ages, Stubborn or really tanky stuff say. There is a lot of merit in offensive buffs to make sure they actually kill things reasonably quickly, destroying units should be the aim IMHO. If we're investing lots of points in this unit (and in characters to help it) we probably can't count on superiority elsewhere on the board.

[frenchi861]

Spellweaver (1#, 320 pts)
1 Spellweaver, 320 pts (General; Level 4 Wizard; Hand Weapon; Always Strikes First; Blessings of the Ancients; Forest Stalker; Forest Strider)
1 Power Stone
1 Talisman of Preservation
1 Crown of Command (Stubborn)

Spellsinger (1#, 140 pts)
1 Spellsinger, 140 pts (Level 2 Wizard; Hand Weapon; Always Strikes First; Blessings of the Ancients; Forest Stalker; Forest Strider)
1 Dispel Scroll

Glade Captain (1#, 158 pts)
1 Glade Captain, 158 pts (Battle Standard Bearer; Hand Weapon; Asrai Longbow; Great Weapon; Starfire Shafts; Always Strikes First; Forest Stalker; Forest Strider; The Arrow of Kurnous; Always Strikes Last; Armour Piercing; Flaming Attacks; Volley Fire)
1 Armour of Destiny

Shadowdancer (1#, 125 pts)
1 Shadowdancer, 125 pts (Two Hand Weapons; Always Strikes First; Blessings of the Ancients; Forest Stalker; Forest Strider; Immune to Psychology; Shadow Dances of Loec; Talismanic Tattoos; Extra Attack)
1 Glittering Scales

Glade Guard (20#, 320 pts)
20 Glade Guard, 320 pts (Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Hand Weapon; Asrai Longbow; Trueflight Arrows; Always Strikes First; Forest Stalker; Forest Strider; Armour Piercing; Volley Fire)

Glade Riders (6#, 142 pts)
6 Glade Riders, 142 pts (Musician Mus; Hand Weapon; Asrai Longbow; Asrai Spear; Hagbane Tips; Always Strikes First; Ambushers; Fast Cavalry; Forest Stalker; Forest Strider; Swiftstride; Vanguard; Armour Piercing; Poisoned Attacks; Volley Fire)
6 Elven Steed (Fast Cavalry; Swiftstride; Vanguard)

Glade Riders (6#, 142 pts)
6 Glade Riders, 142 pts (Musician Mus; Hand Weapon; Asrai Longbow; Asrai Spear; Hagbane Tips; Always Strikes First; Ambushers; Fast Cavalry; Forest Stalker; Forest Strider; Swiftstride; Vanguard; Armour Piercing; Poisoned Attacks; Volley Fire)
6 Elven Steed (Fast Cavalry; Swiftstride; Vanguard)

Wildwood Rangers (26#, 331 pts)
25 Wildwood Rangers, 331 pts (Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Great Weapon; Light Armour; Always Strikes First; Forest Stalker; Forest Strider; Guardians of the Wildwood; Immune to Psychology; Always Strikes Last)
1 Wildwood Warden (Great Weapon; Light Armour; Always Strikes First; Forest Stalker; Forest Strider; Guardians of the Wildwood; Immune to Psychology; Always Strikes Last)
1 Banner of Swiftness

Wild Riders (7#, 216 pts)
7 Wild Riders, 216 pts (Musician Mus; Standard Bearer Std; Hand Weapon; Asrai Spear; Light Armour; Shield; Always Strikes First; Devastating Charge; Extra Attack; Fast Cavalry; Fear; Forest Stalker; Forest Strider; Frenzy; Immune to Psychology; Swiftstride; Talismanic Tattoos; Vanguard; Armour Piercing)
7 Steed of Kurnous (Extra Attack; Frenzy; Immune to Psychology)

Warhawk Riders (3#, 135 pts)
3 Warhawk Riders, 135 pts (Hand Weapon; Asrai Longbow; Asrai Spear; Always Strikes First; Fast Cavalry; Fly; Flying Cavalry; Forest Stalker; Forest Strider; Skirmishers; Swiftstride; Vanguard; Armour Piercing; Volley Fire)
3 Warhawk (Armour Piercing; Predator's Descent; Stomp)

Waywatchers (8#, 160 pts)
8 Waywatchers, 160 pts (Two Hand Weapons; Asrai Longbow; Always Strikes First; Forest Stalker; Forest Strider; Hawk-eyed Archer; Scouts; Skirmishers; Armour Piercing; Extra Attack; Volley Fire)

Waywatchers (8#, 160 pts)
8 Waywatchers, 160 pts (Two Hand Weapons; Asrai Longbow; Always Strikes First; Forest Stalker; Forest Strider; Hawk-eyed Archer; Scouts; Skirmishers; Armour Piercing; Extra Attack; Volley Fire)

Great Eagle (1#, 50 pts)
1 Great Eagle, 50 pts (Fly; Stomp; Swiftstride)

I slightly improve the list I think. Lv4 is for Life and Lv2 Beast. I still have plenty of shooting, and I took some GR to help where needed.

[Phil Rossiter]

I'd try to get the second Wild Rider unit back, otherwise that's only two units that can fight. I'd cut the Warhawks, a shame but less important IMHO. The second issue is a lack of ranged threat from the magic phase. You're quite likely to roll a magic missile up from Beasts though so it's workable I think, especially if you can squeeze Ruby Ring in on the little mage. Lastly, I'd prefer Potion of Strength (and maybe Dragonbane Gem) to Glittering Scales because the Shadowdancer's job is to kill things the Rangers can't and you can't count on getting the right spell off at the right time. The 3+ Ward should keep her alive for the crucial round.