2500 pts vs Gunline Dwarves

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razorfate
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2500 pts vs Gunline Dwarves

Post by razorfate »

As my thread in the Glade of Generals i made an army list.
Can you comment on the pros and cons and what to change?


Lords
Spellweaver, Lvl 4, Lore of Heavens, 4++,Ironcurse, General
Spellweaver, Lvl 4, Lore of Death, Powerstone, Elven Steed

Heroes
BSB, Hail of Doom Arrow, Moonfire Shot, Charmed Shield,Dragonbane Gem

Core
Glade Guard #14, Standard,Mus, TFA, Standard of Discipline
Glade Riders #8,Standard,Mus, Hagbane
Glade Riders #8, Standard,Mus, Hagbane

Special
Deepwood scouts #13, Hagbane
Deepwood scouts #13, Hagbane
Deepwood scouts #9, Hagbane
Wild Riders #5, FC
Sisters #5, FC,Gleaming Pennant

Rare
Great Eagle
Great Eagle
Waywatchers #5
Waywatchers #5
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Billthesurly
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Re: 2500 pts vs Gunline Dwarves

Post by Billthesurly »

I assume you are kitting out for anti-Dwarf and he is doing the same for anti-Wood Elf? Ok, that being taken as baseline...

IMHO you have too much magic. I know some people are playing with two lvl 4 mages but I find I almost never get my points worth out of them. Level 4 Spellweavers ain't cheap! That's ~16 GG with special arrows right there. (unless you're doing end times?)

Two units of Glade Riders is cool but I would use fewer of them. More GG on the ground to begin the game would be a good thing. Try two units of 5 or 6 vice 8.

Maybe another unit of Wildriders and a few more Waywatchers per unit.

If you're working with a spread out army, and it looks like you are, you might not need the BSB. If you're doing run and gun you don't plan to stand and fight anybody and if you're spread out the BSB will be of limited use anyway. As a HoDA caddy however... well why not throw in the BSB with him? He's there so he might as well bring it along. I also find that Swiftshivver Shards work very well with the BSB because with his high BS he can shoot his multi-shots at long range and still hit on 3s. Two AP shots from him per turn are pretty sweet.
So it's no longer the BRB, now it's the DERB. (Digital Edition Rule Book) I am all in for 9th Age.
razorfate
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Re: 2500 pts vs Gunline Dwarves

Post by razorfate »

I assume you are kitting out for anti-Dwarf and he is doing the same for anti-Wood Elf? Ok, that being taken as baseline...
Yes Billy, this is a league match where you know your opponent beforehand so everybody kits this way.
IMHO you have too much magic. I know some people are playing with two lvl 4 mages but I find I almost never get my points worth out of them. Level 4 Spellweavers ain't cheap! That's ~16 GG with special arrows right there. (unless you're doing end times?)
We are playing with old 8th edition rules, no %50 lords, etc.
Two units of Glade Riders is cool but I would use fewer of them. More GG on the ground to begin the game would be a good thing. Try two units of 5 or 6 vice 8.
You are very right, as they were too late joining the party. I took them in the hopes of arriving in turn 2 and increased their numbers for more shots by hag bane. That did not go according to the plan :)
Maybe another unit of Wildriders and a few more Waywatchers per unit.
As my army is kind of new, i have only 1 squad of wildriders and 10 waywatchers ( which i converted from wildwood rangers and shadow warriors bits.)
If you're working with a spread out army, and it looks like you are, you might not need the BSB. If you're doing run and gun you don't plan to stand and fight anybody and if you're spread out the BSB will be of limited use anyway. As a HoDA caddy however... well why not throw in the BSB with him? He's there so he might as well bring it along. I also find that Swiftshivver Shards work very well with the BSB because with his high BS he can shoot his multi-shots at long range and still hit on 3s. Two AP shots from him per turn are pretty sweet.
In our first match with him my units fled whenever they took the oppurtunity of taking panic checks so i went for the bsb. And he managed to shoot off one gyro with his Hail of Doom Arrow....

Bill, thank you very much for your time to reply in both threads.:)
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Billthesurly
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Re: 2500 pts vs Gunline Dwarves

Post by Billthesurly »

You're very welcome. And bye-the-bye, you probably don't need magic arrows on your Glade Riders if their job is to come on and menace Warmachines. Their spears will do quite well in that capacity and makes the unit that much less expensive. I also do not usually bother with standards and champions. Dwarven gunners are stubborn on their guns and don't give a fig for combat res. The +1 BS for champions is laughable but musicians can be handy for the purposes of rallying if you have the leftover points lying around.

AND.... only my mom calls me Billy. Nobody else has called me that since I joined the Navy in 1976. Grump, huff, snort! :angry:

;)
So it's no longer the BRB, now it's the DERB. (Digital Edition Rule Book) I am all in for 9th Age.
razorfate
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Re: 2500 pts vs Gunline Dwarves

Post by razorfate »

Ooopsss :cry:
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henrypmiller
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Re: 2500 pts vs Gunline Dwarves

Post by henrypmiller »

Waystalkers are awesome vs runesmiths.

Might be worth swapping the scouts for glade guard. You are only going to be sitting them 30" away from his line and shooting and moving backwards for 6 turns. Save the points and get something else.
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Re: 2500 pts vs Gunline Dwarves

Post by Aezeal »

I'd always get scouts after core is filled. The scouts can march and shoot and are skirmishers.. they can really move easily out of charge arcs, and they don't need a musician for reforms so you'll nearly get all your points back on that if you would use one otherwise. I love skirmishers to move out of charge arcs of enemy infantry (not gonna work against cav or fliers if they where aimed directly at the skirmishers though.. but often enemies position troops so they get a lot of enemies in charge arcs.. but then on the edges.. and then scouts can easily slip away).
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Re: 2500 pts vs Gunline Dwarves

Post by razorfate »

I do not believe in waystalkers especially against high toughness opponents because even with bow of loren each shot has %66 chance of actually hitting even without any cover. Then you wound with %33 of your shots will wound so each shot has %20 chance to wound. With two shots it is %64 probability that you will not inflict a single wound to the runesmith. This means that waystalker will have approximately 4 turns to kill a runesmith if he has not have any kind of ward save or in cover. I believe that waystalker is more efficient against low toughness opponents.

I use the scouts in the msu concept always harrasing the enemy, moving out of charge arcs or defending more important units by giving them hard cover save. My opponents tend not to shoot at them by missiles or warmachines, they are the targets of magic missiles and it suits me as well. And i already tend to use cavalary for my core allowance so generally bring one glade guard unit.

I will try a different approach with more wild riders and 8 sisters instead of 5. Last game i used great eagle riding noble and great stag riding glade lord with much effect, so i will probably use more this kind of units. This will decrease the number of my scouts and i will have to bring more glade guard units.
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Re: 2500 pts vs Gunline Dwarves

Post by Sidewinder »

If I were to make a list specifically to go against a Dwarf list, I would not have mages at all, primarily because I don't like the magic phase. Playing without mages against a Dwarf player would allow us to skip the magic phases.

Also, for every point the Dwarf player spends on anti-magic runes and such is a point wasted.
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Re: 2500 pts vs Gunline Dwarves

Post by Tarothin »

Not only these but against wood elves it basically makes runesmiths into expensive thanes. The plus to dispelling is wasted if you aren't casting spells and giving armor piercing is mostly wasted on all of our troops with no armor save to speak of at base. I agree against Dwarves (if tailoring lists is a given for both sides) is be tempted to run no mages.
razorfate
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Re: 2500 pts vs Gunline Dwarves

Post by razorfate »

Thanks for the comments, but i believe that magic and especially ability take all 8th lores of magic as well as high and dark lores is one of the strongest features of wood elves. Playing with death and heavens spellweavers earned me good magic phases as my opponent had to keep his spellbreaking runes for the high and mighty purple sun spell while i blasted his gyrocopters with thunderbolt spell which otherwise it would be very hard for me to be rid of them.

But if you want to try and bring a no magic army such as dragon lord (which would be very disadvantageous due to the high number of warmachines), the dwarves are the perfect opponents.
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Re: 2500 pts vs Gunline Dwarves

Post by Aezeal »

Pit of shades against dwarves should give some nice results :D
razorfate
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Re: 2500 pts vs Gunline Dwarves

Post by razorfate »

Yes, exactly:)

But i still go for the Death lore instead of shadow because :

Purple sun > Pit of shades (Very powerful spell, yes i know it is not just powerful it is broken powerful that will always make your opponent reserve his dispel scroll to dispel it)
Soulblight > Withering (-1 to str and toughness to all units in 24 " for the boosted version is more useful than one unit that you will wither for -d3 toughness (which i had always managed to roll only -1))
Doom and Darkness (-3 to Ld of the general and vala:)
Spirit leech (Cheap and very dangerous, ideal to destroy high toughness low ld monsters, even warmachines away from the general)

And above all with a good death spell phase you can start the magic phase again by the extra power dice gained from the lore attribute. This is doubly useful when you play with 2 level 4s.
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Re: 2500 pts vs Gunline Dwarves

Post by Aezeal »

I've actually never used death.
Purple sun seems.. risky: high casting value and thus chance of mistcasts.. not to mention that if you roll a misfire things can get pretty nasty too.

How much new dice do you generally get per magic phase.. some spells dispells.. some might not do much damage.. and you need to roll 5's... seems getting 2-3 would be a lot.
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Re: 2500 pts vs Gunline Dwarves

Post by Mollesvinet »

The misfire on purple sun may be dangerous, but at least it tests on initiative which isn't a huge deal for us. It is worse with black horror from dark magic, testing for strength is not good for our mages.
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Re: 2500 pts vs Gunline Dwarves

Post by NonnoSte »

The advantage of Pit and Black Horror over the Purple Sun, lies in the other spells of the Lore.
You have Miasma to make Pit much deadlier and Word of pain to enhance the Black Horror.

Anyway, Purple Sun against the right opponent can net you 6/7 PD with ease.
Once I faced a VC player who sent a Purple Sun through one of his unit of zombies with the last 4 dice, gaining back something like a dozen of power dice. Quite the dirty trick, if you ask.
razorfate
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Re: 2500 pts vs Gunline Dwarves

Post by razorfate »

My last game against ogres i caused a total of 54 wounds (18 ogres) with pruple sun. Afterwards, my opponent told that i did not need to roll for the power dice because i can only get 12 power dice in one time, so against ogres (initiative:2) every time go for death.

I usually go for the high magic in the magic phase for the invulnerability counters and nice spells such as walk between the world and arcane unforging
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