Dragon list. Some conclusions.

[henrypmiller]

Up coming tournament. Its pretty heavily comped (which I like). No 50% lords. 2200 points.

I also get +1 to go first.

Glade Lord
Forest Dragon
Spear
Shield
helm of the hunt
talisman of preservation
OTS

Heavens LV 2
scroll of shielding (no dispel scroll allowed)
longbow
dragonbane gem
hail of doom arrow

Waystalker
bow of loren

10 glade guard
mus
trueflight

10 glade guard
mus
hagbane

25 eternal guard
command
st of discipline

10 wild riders
st
champ
gleming pennant

3 warhawks
champ

5 wardances

eagle

7 waywatchers

2196 points

Any comments? Changes to make?

[Phil Rossiter]

Looks OK under comp, except I feel it needs a BSB.

[nXken]

Just imagine that general on dragon skipping of the board =/

[NonnoSte]

What is the comp?

[henrypmiller]

Here is a link to the rules pack:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jm4iu534ysmtu ... e.pdf?dl=0

Basically, you are allowed 4 Construction Points (CP). You can also spend CP on +1 to go first or +100 VP.

The wood elves restrictions:

Each mounted character after the 1stcosts 1 CP.

Every unitwith Hagbane Tips/Trueflight Arrows after the 2ndcosts 1 CP.

Wild Riders present in the roster costs 1 CP.

More than 30 missile weapons costs 1 CP, more than 45 costs 2 CP, and more than 55 costs 3CP.

More than 0 wizard levels with Lore of Shadow costs 1 CP, more than 2 costs 2 CP.

Moonstone of the Hidden Pathways costs 1 CP.

More than 6Waywatchers costs 1 CP, more than 10 costs 2 CP.

The following entries can be bought with a 100 point-discount, for the cost of 1 CP each:Treeman, Treeman Ancient, Treekin, Wildwood Rangers.

[henrypmiller]

Phil rosier,

How would you fit in a BSB? What would you take out etc?

[nXken]

I'ld swap out the Waystalker.

[Phil Rossiter]

Rossiter.



I agree with nXken.

[Aezeal]

Looking at your comp system I would not take the 7th WW just to get another comp point... either take 9 or take 6.

I'd probably max shots to 44 with bigger GG units (take care about characters, WW, warhawks with bows).

Only a lvl 2 wizard makes me think you will be killed in the magic phase.

I would take the sisters on dragon over this lord you got here (I'd argue it would only be 1 comp point btw).

Consider scouts instead of GG (It would be a big unit though since you can't make more than 2 units without getting comp)

[chickenbane]

Phil rosier,

How would you fit in a BSB? What would you take out etc?

He's probably trying to make you sound optimistic.

[henrypmiller]

My experience is that the waystalker is essential. He can snipe champions for the dragon to go into and put pressure on the characters which will cause me problems (like wizards or high armour saves). This in turn could make some people push at me which will make it easier for the WR and Dragon.

I want to run the dragon and 25% lords means that I can only take a lv 2. I have however changed the HoDA for a ruby ring. Also the magic is done in such a way that big spells are difficult to get off. See comp pack for more details.

Moreover where does the BSB go? I usually run him on an eagle but that would be +1 comp choice. Could put him in the EG but he's just going to get killed if I mount him on a steed w the wildriders its +1 comp point.

Any thoughts on the load-out of the dragonlord? I don't think special characters are allowed.

Considering swapping HotH for the -1 to hit armour?

I agree that I could do with some more shots. In a practice game I had a unit of scouts. They didn't add too much so I swapped them for 3 extra wild riders to make a unit of 10.

[henrypmiller]

6 or 9 waywatchers? which is better? My instinct tells me 9 is worth the comp point?

[NonnoSte]

Do the bows from characters count for the 30 missile attacks? Does the Dragon breath weapon?
If it's so, pure spending 1 CP on that already, so you should go up to 45 with those two more WW and some more GG (or swap one unit for scouts and ditch wardancers for more EG).
Another thing, since WR are comped regardless of the number of units, I think you should split them.

[henrypmiller]

The bows from characters count. I'm not sure about the dragonbreath. I would assume so. Unless its an "ability" rather than a missile weapon. Better to be safe than sorry anyway.

2 small units of WR is better than 1 big one?

I was going for 2 major threats with the dragon and the WR.

I have a 1 day tournament coming up soon so I will try one or the other out and see.

Its 2400 points though.

[henrypmiller]

With a few changes:

Glade lord
Dragon
HotH
OTS
Spear
shield
Talisman of pres.

Lv 2 Heavens
scroll of shielding
ruby ring

waystalker
bowof loren

25 eternal guard
shields
command
banner of discipline

10 glade guard
musician
hag bane

12 glade guard
musician
true flight

5 wardancers

3 warhawks
champ

8 wild riders
st and champ
gleaming pennant

eagle

9 waywatchers

[Phil Rossiter]

As the Waystalker is non-negotiable and given the restrictions, I would put a BSB in the Eternal Guard. To get the points I'd cut the Trueflight to 10, the EG to 20 with no magic std (they now have re-rolls) and the rest from WR's. This makes Panic much less of an issue, helps with Swift Reforms and re-rolling a crucial Break test could be game-breaking.

[NonnoSte]

I completely agree on the BSB.

Nice kits for a foot BSB are Armor of Silvered Steel, Luckstone and a GW if you're not likely to face many snipers (Men Eaters, Way Stalkers, Witch Hunters or Death casters) or simply the Armour of Destiny and a GW, but you'll have to be more cautious in combat.

One last thing.
Your lord could use the fire ward.
If an opponent targets the dragon with a Searing Doom, he's wounding both the Dragon and the Lord on 3+. With a 2++ the Lord should survive and preserve the points of the whole model.
I'd take the Dragon Helm over the Helm of the Hunt for this purpose, even at the cost of Devastating Charge (which is nice, but very situational and not really game-breaking)

[henrypmiller]

OKay Im sold.

Glade lord on the dragon

wizard

BSB
silvered steel
luckstone
GW

waystalker

22 Eternal guard
etc

10 GG

10 GG

7 wild riders

3 warhawks

5 wardancrs

eagle

6 waywatchers

+100 victory points
+1 to go first (both from comp)

Thanks to you all.

Ill see how the list works out in some practice games.

[henrypmiller]

I used a similar list with the following build last weekend at a 1 day tournament. ETC restrictions. Only major difference is the heavens singer was replaced with a high weaver on a unicorn.

Glade Lord
Forest Dragon
shield
Armour of destiny
ogre blade
Potion of foolhardiness
dragonbane gem

It worked quite well. Lots of S6 is nice in a low S list. First game I won 20. Charged the dragon into 30 plagebearers. turn 2 Probably wasn't the best idea but I ground them out with the help of some warhwaks in the rear.

Second game vs gunline dwarfs. Really bad match up and I made a few mistakes. Decided to go for the BSBs unit when I should have just stayed out of range of his missiles and by keeping the dragon assaulting one flank and out of LOS of his cannons my units hiding in a watchtower got destroyed by the D6 hits from the cannon. The lord in this game got cannon sniped the turn I made a break for his big unit. Dragon took 3 wounds from the same shot but it got him into the flank of the unit and he ground them out. Warhwaks again provided support and killing blow'd the runesmith. 13-7 win.

Third game vs beastmen, dragon got charged by a 3++ doombull after failing an 8 charge in my turn. The lord was killed again in a couple of rounds but the doombull was eaten by the dragon. I then fled from a bestigor unit to save the points. Lukcily rallied next turn. Lost this one 14-6 due to some bad dice rolls (tried to 5 dice fiery convocation on the 40-strong bestigors 5/6 turns. the one time I actually met the casting value he used a dispel scroll and the wizard was in a wood most of the time. Kept rolling 1s and 2s) and a bit of inexperience.

My overall impression of this build is that it is perhaps better than the one I proposed. the S6 is a lot better for grinding down units. The dragon will rarely kill his target in 1 go if solo-charged into a unit (even with S6) so a spear, although cost efficient, is sub par. The above build has to be used as a support roll rather than a grinding role. Nevertheless I really needed the OTS in the final game and it would have been useful in every game I played.

Still undecided on the build for the lord but the list is really fun to play with.

[henrypmiller]

Final Build:

Glade Lord
Forest Dragon
Shield
Light armour
Helm of the hunt
Other tricksters shard
sword of might
Talisman of preservation

548 points

He now has some grinding power at S5 and has built-in devastating charge. Still has 3+, 4++ (which is the best save he can have). Now has OTS for the re roll on the enemy wards.

Only downside to this build is no flaming ward. However I think this is the optimal build for him. I would like to challenge you guys to come up with a better one

H

[Mollesvinet]

I would definitely go for the charmed shield over the helmet of the wild hunt. The +1 attack is insignificant compared to the combined damage output of character, dragon, stomps and breath attacks. 3+ save is nice, but nothing compared to saving your general from the first cannonball coming his way in my opinion.

Food for thought.

[HouseofGinaz]

The lord in this game got cannon sniped the turn I made a break for his big unit. Dragon took 3 wounds from the same shot but it got him into the flank of the unit and he ground them out. Warhwaks again provided support and killing blow'd the runesmith. 13-7 win.

This is a newb question, but I'm confused about the rules when reading this. I thought 8th edition had combined profile to a certain degree (not end times), in the games I have played which are not many (one ETC tournament) and about a dozen normal games the steeds/mounts counted as part of the hero and vice versa with only the normal attacks being separate. For example when a Inner Circle knights takes 1 wound both he and his steed dies, but he defends with the highest weapon skill/armor save. The biggest unit I have played with so far is a Pegasus, and we went with the same rules for the captasus as the normal knights. A Captain usually only have 2 wounds but gets a maximum of 3 wounds since he is on a Pegasus, so even though Captain with WS5 defends against attacks they both attack separately at their initiative skill and own ws skill but defend as one model together. Sorry for the bad English.

[Phil Rossiter]

The Dragon is a Monster, so takes damage separately from it's rider.

See page 105.

[henrypmiller]

I would definitely go for the charmed shield over the helmet of the wild hunt.

This is a preference thing in my mind. I have a 4++ the whole time vs the cannons and I think a 3+/4++ is better than a 2++ once. 4+ 4++.

I am more worried about small arms fire. I can avoid cannons using terrain but taking a stand and shoot from a unit or having to push my dragon into range of archers (wood elf match up comes to mind) means I might be taking lots of lower S hits and the better armour save is more important.

It should also be noted that it is the Dragon that does most of the killing. The Lord is there to get him into combat and provide the OTS re roll on the tough targets.

When you play with restrictions, which I usually do, you don't tend to see 3/4 cannon lists anyway. With the high mage as well, I have the opportunity to heal the dragon using apotheosis (shame I cant fit it in to the list for the next tournament).

That's my justification anyway.

[HouseofGinaz]

The Dragon is a Monster, so takes damage separately from it's rider.

See page 105.

Aha thanks, that is good to know. I don't have the army book with me atm. So one more question please, can you allocate the wounds yourself and choose who to defend with or does the attacker choose which one to attack?