Asrai with the Eternity King

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NonnoSte
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Asrai with the Eternity King

Post by NonnoSte »

I'm starting now to work on the army I'm going to play in the third chapter of the End of Time Campaign held by our local club.
Considering it will revolve around the Khaine book and that will make valid all the rules and the army lists introduced with it, I know a lot of players at our local club are willing to give a try at the Host of the Eternity King.

I'm probably going to face Malekhit with shooty armies, Alarielle in support of combat blocks and maybe even Tyrion in a cavalry bus or Teclis leading a Light Coven.

Since I'm not willing to abuse of the new characters, I thought to play a mainly Asrai force, with the possible inclusion of few units from the other two books.
Anyway, since I know the field will be very tough if not strictly competitive, I intend to take the most from the new rules.

Considering that all mages will be Loremasters, I had in mind to run an Eternal Guard death star with a couple of Shadowdancers, a Dark Sorceress and a Dark BSB (I was tempted by an High BSB with world Dragon at first, but then my club mates would scream cheese without even thinking about the silliness of some of their lists ), backed up either by a Moonstone Beastweaver with Sisters or a Treeman Ancient alongside a regular one.

What I have to know is if our club will be willing to grant to Sisters and Warlocks Loremaster in their two lores or not.
Because if that is the case, I'll simply forego the L4 caster and my list will look like this:

Dark Sorceress L2, Dispel Scroll, Opal Amulet, Ironcurse Icon 160
Shadowdancer, The Terrifying Mask of EEE! 125
Shadowdancer, Potion of Strength, charmed shield (General) 125
Master BSB, heavy armour, sea dragon cloak, shield, Ring of Hotek 157

2 x 5 Dark Riders, shields, xbows, musicians 220
30 Eternal Guards, shields, full command, Banner of Discipline 405

2 x 5 Sisters of the Thorn, musician 280
6 Deepwood Scouts, HBT 96
7 Deepwood Scouts, HBT 112
3 x Reaper Bolt Thrower 210

2 x 5 Doomfire Warlocks 250
Frostheart Phoenix 240
6 Waywatchers 120

Otherwise, the list could be something like this:

Characters - 892
Treeman Ancient L3 325
Dark Sorceress L2, Dispel Scroll, Opal Amulet, Ironcurse Icon 160
Shadowdancer, The Terrifying Mask of EEE! 125
Shadowdancer, Potion of Strength 120
Master BSB, heavy armour, sea dragon cloak, shield, Ring of Hotek 157

Core - 625
2 x 5 Dark Riders, shields, xbows, musicians 220
30 Eternal Guards, shields, full command, Banner of Discipline 405

Special - 370
3 Reaper Bolt Throwers 210
2 x 5 Deepwood Scouts HBT 160

Rare - 615
Treeman, Strangleroot 245
Frostheart Phoenix 240
6 Waywatchers 120

Or else a Beastweaver with Moonstone, Power Stone and Obsidian Amulet instead of the Ancient and a unit of 8 Sisters with Banner of the Discipline (swiftness on Eternal Guard) instead of the regular Treeman. The BSB also will get mounted and swap the Ring of Hotek for Talisman of Preservation and Charmed Shield.

The plain is pretty simple and straightforward. March and Fight.
Multiple casting of Power of Darkness will make Eternal Guards a real kkiling machine, especially with the two Dancers. The Mask is there to enable some nice SoD combos and to make the unit immune to Terror.
If available, Wyssan is a backup to Power of Darkness for times in which I fail to cast it or I have just one die for the spell, while Lore of Life is there to ensure the big unit to keep rocking all the match trough.
The Frostie is in there mainly because I need a pretext to paint it. :p
Nonetheless its support is great for combat infantries and with the whole lot of shooting, scouts and fast cavalries war machines should be dealt pretty quickly.

Granted that you think all of this viable, my main concerns are about the lack of Eagles and the short count of arrows.
MAybe the list could work with Glade Guards in place of Dark Riders and an two Eagles in place of Waywatchers (considering that I already have 3 RBTs to counter armour.

What do you think?
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Re: Asrai with the Eternity King

Post by Coyle_Ravane »

Personally, if I was expecting a lot of elf armies in the current environment, I'd load up on waystalkers.

Especially with these magic rules, you can expect to see a lot of characters, most of them unarmoured mages, and half a dozen waystalkers firing twice each could easily drop nearly their own points value in T3 mages every turn.

With the characters dead, you will have a major advantage. You will have magic, they won't, and you should have more points in troops.
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Aezeal
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Re: Asrai with the Eternity King

Post by Aezeal »

First: if everyone is going to use the new characters it's not abuse to use them.

Having said that my other thoughts:

Forgoing the level 4 when you will be against a lot of level 5 casters might be a risk.. every dispell will on average need an extra dice against any of those.. and even against regular lvl 4's it's a risk. Personally I'd be tempted to use the cheaper level 5 caster (allarielle incarnate of life), instead of a life ancient. (Have you read this article? http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/01/ ... ielle.html)

I guess Malekith could be countered by bringing a lot of our magic arrows.. but he's still flying and 10 wounds so even that won't be easy before he's in combat. And you don't bring nearly enough shots to even try I'd say. (He still has his regular 3+ even if you get magical shots). Another option would be something to instakill him but his stats aren't exactly making it likely he'll fail a stat test. Massed metal direct damage might be a good way to hurt him too.

I think a campaign which is "balanced" around characters of this strength is kinda pointless to play if you insist on cripling yourself.
Malekith's teleport skill and his lvl 5 in one of the best lores with his circlet boost out there don't make it easier either.. nor his 24" IP and insane melee boost for elves.
I think that outside the end times characters there is nothing to counter him for that point value and neither of your lists comes close, without shooting you do not stand a chance. He'll charge into your treemen and kill them in 1 turn and overrun into something else. If he doesn't charge it means that the eternal guard or whatever melee troops he brings will just outperform yours if he's near.
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2015/01/ ... ekith.html
NonnoSte
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Re: Asrai with the Eternity King

Post by NonnoSte »

I honestly don't know if ANYone is going to use them, but I'm going to face someone for sure.

For sure there will be a Manfred, a Malekith, an Alarielle and a Karl Franz Ascendant and I think an Imrik, a Glottkin and a Nagsh will make their appearance too.

Alarielle instead of the Treeman Ancient looks interesting, but then I'll be tempted to take the most from her new abilities and fill my army with monsters who will benefit the most from her wounds regeneration.
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Re: Asrai with the Eternity King

Post by Q10fanatic »

If you want to avoid a special character, try a massive Sister bus. Get them up to a +5 to cast, get redundant MR in there, tooled up characters with a BSB. With ET magic that's already a Loremaster of life and beasts. Maybe one more wizard could be used if you like. On the charge you're looking at +6 in CR., before wounds or flanks.
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Re: Asrai with the Eternity King

Post by Aezeal »

NonnoSte wrote:I honestly don't know if ANYone is going to use them, but I'm going to face someone for sure.

For sure there will be a Manfred, a Malekith, an Alarielle and a Karl Franz Ascendant and I think an Imrik, a Glottkin and a Nagsh will make their appearance too.

Alarielle instead of the Treeman Ancient looks interesting, but then I'll be tempted to take the most from her new abilities and fill my army with monsters who will benefit the most from her wounds regeneration.
Well if you go monster then Imrik is a good choice... he has a monster buff. But he's so much weaker compared to Malekith it's just a waste not to take Malekith if you are going that way.
I'd get your idea's for counters against Glottkin, Nagash, Malekith and KFA ready... I don't think your lists qualify.. and myself I'd prefer not to play a game where the deck is stacked against you.

I'm interested in hearing how you think the lists you posted would be able to do anything about those characters.
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Re: Asrai with the Eternity King

Post by NonnoSte »

I have nothing to focus those monsters on, if not a unit of stubborn spear elves boostable up to Str10 with little risk.
Warlocks at Str10 too should cause some problem and there's a double Amber Spear from a fast cav.
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Re: Asrai with the Eternity King

Post by Aezeal »

You realize that if he charges they could be broken, routed and overrun before you can cast the spell. It's also gonna be a spell he's going to want to dispell (if your roll the spell).
NonnoSte
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Re: Asrai with the Eternity King

Post by NonnoSte »

Actually, with Khaine magic, I'm grabted all the spells in the lore. And I can cast them as many times I want as long as I have PD at disposal an I don't fail it.
At +3 to cast, I can 2-dice PoD until one get through, then I'll get D3 dice back and so on, until I don't fail it or I touch Str10.

If he charges stubborn, re-rollable Ld9 break test should be little more than a formality.

Anyway, I think I'll try to run Alarielle, Incarnate of Life to back up the block of Infantry with Life magic.
Once I include her, tough, I'm tempted to run a couple of Treeman too (since I put much effort in the models). Maybe, with her, even Treekin could be worth their points.
Monstruous infantry at T5, 4+ AS and Regen become really hard to shift. At 45 pts I'd say they're worth a try.

I'm just uncertain between 9 Treekin or 22 Phoenix Guards with Razor Standard for the same point cost.
Phoenix Guards look more resilient and better at killing things too, but Treekin get healed each turn by Alarielle's ability.
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Re: Asrai with the Eternity King

Post by NonnoSte »

Something along these lines:

Alarielle
Durthu
Dark Sorceress L2, Dispel Scroll
Master BSB, heavy armour, sea dragon cloak, shield, Ring of Hotek

2 x 5 Dark Riders, shields, xbows, musicians
30 Eternal Guards, shields, full command, Banner of Swiftness
9 Treekin
Treeman, Strangleroot

This would be very fluffy and effective to some extent. Flaming cannons and Dwellers spam will still be a BIG problem, but anything else could be managed, I think.
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Re: Asrai with the Eternity King

Post by Aezeal »

NonnoSte wrote:Actually, with Khaine magic, I'm grabted all the spells in the lore. And I can cast them as many times I want as long as I have PD at disposal an I don't fail it.
At +3 to cast, I can 2-dice PoD until one get through, then I'll get D3 dice back and so on, until I don't fail it or I touch Str10.

If he charges stubborn, re-rollable Ld9 break test should be little more than a formality.

Anyway, I think I'll try to run Alarielle, Incarnate of Life to back up the block of Infantry with Life magic.
Once I include her, tough, I'm tempted to run a couple of Treeman too (since I put much effort in the models). Maybe, with her, even Treekin could be worth their points.
Monstruous infantry at T5, 4+ AS and Regen become really hard to shift. At 45 pts I'd say they're worth a try.

I'm just uncertain between 9 Treekin or 22 Phoenix Guards with Razor Standard for the same point cost.
Phoenix Guards look more resilient and better at killing things too, but Treekin get healed each turn by Alarielle's ability.
Phoenix Guard and their 4++ and 4+ regen seems paying double for the saves. Treekin are nice but do not benefit from the murderous prowess etc that legion of the Eternity King gets. You might consider the Black Guard or even WWR, with S5 and rerolling 1 to wound they will get a lot of wounding rolls. Might help against high T and high AS. And you get a lot of those for 1 treekin.
NonnoSte wrote:Something along these lines:

Alarielle
Durthu
Dark Sorceress L2, Dispel Scroll
Master BSB, heavy armour, sea dragon cloak, shield, Ring of Hotek

2 x 5 Dark Riders, shields, xbows, musicians
30 Eternal Guards, shields, full command, Banner of Swiftness
9 Treekin
Treeman, Strangleroot

This would be very fluffy and effective to some extent. Flaming cannons and Dwellers spam will still be a BIG problem, but anything else could be managed, I think.
Why the dark sorc and the dark riders? Don't you like Wild riders or them warlocks? I think I'd get 10 warlocks as another lvl of caster (you already have allariell for 5 and Durthu for 1) and ditch the sorc and the riders. (I know it's a scroll caddy too, still why the dark mage?)
And then the WWR instead of the treekin, all the nasty endtimes stuff causes fear or terror so they'll be sure to get good targets for their 2 attacks, their damage out put will be much higher than treeking, their wounds total too.. ofc they'll accumulate wounds faster too.

I think most power dice will go to allariell anyway since her +5 and other bonus stuff make casting with her so much more bang for your power dice, and less chance of blowing up too.

The list lacks anti artillery. So a unit of warhawks or scouts might be nice too (a bit less EG and treekin/WWR?)
NonnoSte
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Re: Asrai with the Eternity King

Post by NonnoSte »

You got a point with PG, although they were meant to work outside Alarielle range. So that I would be free to deploy them wherever I wanted, not being forced to a clustered deployment.
I don't like WWR (and I assure you I tried them a lot, since I love the models).
At Str5 Swordmasters are just better in any way. If I had to take GW elves, I'd be wanting Executioners for sure. Especially with Regen in the mix.
Otherwise, you're right, Black Guard could work better than Phoenix Guard.
Treekin came to mind just because they can be healed each turn by Alarielle and with their defensive abilities plus Regen they become incredibly tough.

Dark Riders have the advantage of being core.
And the Dark Sorceress is needed to boost the EG through PoD.

Lastly, you're right about artillery.
Maybe just 6 Treekin (of the equivalent of whatever I'll pick) and a unit of warhawks/scouts could work better.
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Re: Asrai with the Eternity King

Post by Aezeal »

All in all I still don't see much options to destroy the real end-time killers: we are talking about units about 2-3x Durthu's points cost who kill him in 1 round even on subavarage rolls.

Apart from that it's a nice list. Not very woodelfy though without archers.
NonnoSte
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Re: Asrai with the Eternity King

Post by NonnoSte »

The campaign has finally started.
Here's the thread about it, with the list I'm playing, general informations about the campaign and battle reports to follow, as soon as they'll be ready.
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