So, I've got a 1,500 game vs dwarves coming up this weekend and I haven't played against them in 5+ years. Would anyone be will to share some thoughts on what works well against dwarves and if there are any "auto-includes" in a list against dwarves?
I have no idea what my buddy is taking or the models he has, but it's a safe bet that he has anything he wants/needs to make his army ridiculous. So assume he has all the models in his army.
My initial thoughts are that waywatchers are a great choice here since they can ignore armor. I was thinking of maxing them out.
I also think that having as much poison as I possibly can would be a good idea. So I thought that having a couple units of scouts, GG and maybe GR with poison would be great. Scouts to deal with copters and warmachines. I guess the goal here would be to make sure I'm far away from anything that could melt them first turn though, not sure.
Other than that, I don't really know. I have some ideas, but would really appreciate some thoughts from some veterans. I'm a big fan of WR running around with WHR and think they could work here, but wasn't sure if I'd need the special for other things.
Anyway, all thoughts are welcome. Thanks in advance.
1,500 vs Dwarves
Moderator: Council of Elders
Re: 1,500 vs Dwarves
Auto includes versus heavily armored dwarfs?
==> Waywatchers, lore of metal
Auto include versus Warmachine dwarfs?
==> hagbane scouts, glade riders and great eagles (maybe WHR)
Auto include versus short-legged, quite slow dwarfs:
anything that can run around and harass, lore of heavens to push back
My quick list (top of my head), do the math yourself
lvl 4 Heavens
ironcurse icon (wardsave vs warmachines),
wardsaves/armorsaves
lvl 4 Metal
wards / armorsave
BSB (flee charges he can make)
Core:
GR, Hagbane
Durable bunker-unit for your casters
Special
Deepwood scouts, Hagbane
Rare
Eagles
Waywatchers
General strategy:
hunt warmachines down, second priority: ranged troops
leave the deathstar alone till you have no other option.
I think movement is key here.
My questions: what about Gyro's?.??
==> Waywatchers, lore of metal
Auto include versus Warmachine dwarfs?
==> hagbane scouts, glade riders and great eagles (maybe WHR)
Auto include versus short-legged, quite slow dwarfs:
anything that can run around and harass, lore of heavens to push back
My quick list (top of my head), do the math yourself
lvl 4 Heavens
ironcurse icon (wardsave vs warmachines),
wardsaves/armorsaves
lvl 4 Metal
wards / armorsave
BSB (flee charges he can make)
Core:
GR, Hagbane
Durable bunker-unit for your casters
Special
Deepwood scouts, Hagbane
Rare
Eagles
Waywatchers
General strategy:
hunt warmachines down, second priority: ranged troops
leave the deathstar alone till you have no other option.
I think movement is key here.
My questions: what about Gyro's?.??
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Re: 1,500 vs Dwarves
This is one of my least favorite match ups. I even like deamons better. Everything is T 4 or better. The organ gun will shread what ever gets into 30 inches of it and the war machine crews are stubborn. Expect a rune of spell eating. Heavens is great you can probably get some milage from Comet and iceshard. You should also think about Shadow, army wide low I will make pit or even pendulum useful. You should plan around losing your "most useful" spell.
I'd bring at least 18 hagbane shots so you can kill a war machine every turn. Eagles as always are great but will probably have to kill a crew to the man and can even lose. I like sisters in this match up. Curse can be great to blunt whatever shooting he brings.
Good Luck! Let us know how it goes.
I'd bring at least 18 hagbane shots so you can kill a war machine every turn. Eagles as always are great but will probably have to kill a crew to the man and can even lose. I like sisters in this match up. Curse can be great to blunt whatever shooting he brings.
Good Luck! Let us know how it goes.
war without fire is as worthless as sausages without mustard
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Phil Rossiter
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Re: 1,500 vs Dwarves
As said, Hagbane Scouts very useful because the war machines will be screened or Entrenched, so Core archers will have trouble Poisoning them quickly. I know of Dwarf players who dislike the match-up. A shooty Wood Elf list should sit just outside 30" then carefully remove stuff a bit at a time because the Organ Guns and Crossbows can't move and fire.
A competent Dwarf player should deploy his war machines behind infantry such that they can't be charged except aerially. Not even that if he can deploy tightly enough.
A competent Dwarf player should deploy his war machines behind infantry such that they can't be charged except aerially. Not even that if he can deploy tightly enough.
Re: 1,500 vs Dwarves
Thanks for all the responses.
Does anyone like the twins for this matchup? I'd be playing them as a ridden monster. I've yet to play with them, and would love to break them out. I can easily move the points up to 2,000 or 2,500 if necessary. 1,500 is just so much quicker.
Also, what about wild riders? Should they be left at home for more bows? I'm generally a shooty wood elf player anyway, but WR tend to mop up the garbage that's left in my normal games. I'm not sure if they would be worth it here unless we increased the points.
Lastly, what's the scariest thing I could face at 1,500 points? I don't have the dwarf book right now. I'm guessing a few canons and some copters?
Does anyone like the twins for this matchup? I'd be playing them as a ridden monster. I've yet to play with them, and would love to break them out. I can easily move the points up to 2,000 or 2,500 if necessary. 1,500 is just so much quicker.
Also, what about wild riders? Should they be left at home for more bows? I'm generally a shooty wood elf player anyway, but WR tend to mop up the garbage that's left in my normal games. I'm not sure if they would be worth it here unless we increased the points.
Lastly, what's the scariest thing I could face at 1,500 points? I don't have the dwarf book right now. I'm guessing a few canons and some copters?
Re: 1,500 vs Dwarves
Take them on the eagle... But then you prolly lose a caster
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Re: 1,500 vs Dwarves
Yeah, I meant on the eagle. Then I'd probably take a lvl4 w/ heavens, moonstone and scroll in a large block of GG.nXken wrote:Take them on the eagle... But then you prolly lose a caster
Something like this:
lvl 4 heavens, scroll, moonstone
Twins on eagle
5 GR poison
18 GG poison
9 scouts poison
9 scouts poison
7 WW
7 WW
comes in at 1,508.
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bjoernuhlig
- Trusted Bowman
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Re: 1,500 vs Dwarves
before u bring twins on eagle ask your boy what rules you have them with. just to avoid long discussions while fighting.
be cautious with charging into a battle line (im looking at you wild riders). quarrelers (crossbowstunts?) pack s4 bolts at 30 inch. they wreck everything that comes too close, and they are 2HW in CC. if he brings to many of them you will suffer, you wont be able to penetrate the 30'' buble significantly. skirmish scouts in forest outside 15', his close range, is the way to go.
scouts also block Gyros. this! avoid the template weapons.
if hes a good player, dont go for all out victory. play for a draw, and hope for some luck to get you a slight win.
be cautious with charging into a battle line (im looking at you wild riders). quarrelers (crossbowstunts?) pack s4 bolts at 30 inch. they wreck everything that comes too close, and they are 2HW in CC. if he brings to many of them you will suffer, you wont be able to penetrate the 30'' buble significantly. skirmish scouts in forest outside 15', his close range, is the way to go.
scouts also block Gyros. this! avoid the template weapons.
if hes a good player, dont go for all out victory. play for a draw, and hope for some luck to get you a slight win.
Re: 1,500 vs Dwarves
Het Bjoern,bjoernuhlig wrote:before u bring twins on eagle ask your boy what rules you have them with. just to avoid long discussions while fighting.
be cautious with charging into a battle line (im looking at you wild riders). quarrelers (crossbowstunts?) pack s4 bolts at 30 inch. they wreck everything that comes too close, and they are 2HW in CC. if he brings to many of them you will suffer, you wont be able to penetrate the 30'' buble significantly. skirmish scouts in forest outside 15', his close range, is the way to go.
scouts also block Gyros. this! avoid the template weapons.
if hes a good player, dont go for all out victory. play for a draw, and hope for some luck to get you a slight win.
There are no Wild Riders (Make Jedi hand-movement)
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Re: 1,500 vs Dwarves
Yeah, I left out Wild Riders because I wasn't sure what he'd be bringing. To expensive if they can't get near anything.
Re: 1,500 vs Dwarves
And the rules for the twins will be as if riding a monster and they count as one model (the twins) with T3 and 4W. Still really hard to kill with shooting.
Re: 1,500 vs Dwarves
Be VERY wary of his cannon(s)
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bjoernuhlig
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Re: 1,500 vs Dwarves
there are no wild riders
(looking dumbstruck into the distance)
move along, move along (waving hands in random direction)
(looking dumbstruck into the distance)
move along, move along (waving hands in random direction)
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Git
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Re: 1,500 vs Dwarves
I love fighting Dwarfs. At least the gunline variant. Don't bring Trees. Use trueflight Glade Guard just within 30" of their target. Waywatchers and hagbane Scouts are good. The latter for the warmachines. If you can get a wound or two off a war machine the trueflight glade guard can move up and deal one wound more for every six hits, on average. Organ gun first.
It doesn't really matter too much if your Scouts get shot up one turn, after having dealt a few wounds. Then something else isn't shot at. Just remember to deploy the scouts in cover, in case your opponent gets first shot. Then use your eagles or wild riders to charge into any opening and get behind his line. Quarrelers hit hard, but after war machines they are your main shooting target.
Heavens is awesome. If you get the Comet you cast it, lean back with a drink in your hand, put on your sunglasses and watch him sweat.
If you include Sisters of the Thorn you have some extra poison shots at very short range, but this is a desperate measure to get rid of a war machine. Last Saturday I moved into an Empire Helblaster Volley Gun's range, shot away two of its crew and got shot back. He rolled a total of 8 wounds (20 hits) and I saved 6 with the ward save.
If he doesn't bring a gunline you use your shooting to deplete one unit at a time before charging in with the Wild Riders. Sadly my Dwarf opponents have not acquired Gyrocopters yet, so i have no experience against them.
It doesn't really matter too much if your Scouts get shot up one turn, after having dealt a few wounds. Then something else isn't shot at. Just remember to deploy the scouts in cover, in case your opponent gets first shot. Then use your eagles or wild riders to charge into any opening and get behind his line. Quarrelers hit hard, but after war machines they are your main shooting target.
Heavens is awesome. If you get the Comet you cast it, lean back with a drink in your hand, put on your sunglasses and watch him sweat.
If you include Sisters of the Thorn you have some extra poison shots at very short range, but this is a desperate measure to get rid of a war machine. Last Saturday I moved into an Empire Helblaster Volley Gun's range, shot away two of its crew and got shot back. He rolled a total of 8 wounds (20 hits) and I saved 6 with the ward save.
If he doesn't bring a gunline you use your shooting to deplete one unit at a time before charging in with the Wild Riders. Sadly my Dwarf opponents have not acquired Gyrocopters yet, so i have no experience against them.
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Phil Rossiter
- Wild Hunter
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- Location: Britain
Re: 1,500 vs Dwarves
Yeah, watch out for Gyrocopter Vanguards.
Re: 1,500 vs Dwarves
Should these not be my main target with poison GG?Phil Rossiter wrote:Yeah, watch out for Gyrocopter Vanguards.
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Phil Rossiter
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Re: 1,500 vs Dwarves
Probably so.
If Dwarf player gets turn one a Vanguard could see these moving 32" and using the steam template, though only half can take the Vanguard upgrade. Could be worth putting a cheap unit of scouts close to stop the Vanguarding.
If Dwarf player gets turn one a Vanguard could see these moving 32" and using the steam template, though only half can take the Vanguard upgrade. Could be worth putting a cheap unit of scouts close to stop the Vanguarding.
Re: 1,500 vs Dwarves
All, thanks for the advice. Game went well.
I brought:
Lvl 4 shadow, dispel scroll (like a dumbass) moonstone
Twins on the eagle
18 hag bane GG
5 hag bane GR
7 hag bane scouts
5 wild riders shields
7 hag bane scouts
10 waywatchers
He brought:
Random hero
20 long beards
20 warriors
20 miners
Canon
Canon
Bolt thrower
Organ gun
I got the first turn. Took out all but one canon with shooting. I got lucky with some rolls. Got withering off on the organ gun. He didn't bring any gyrocopters. Overall, it was probably over after my first turn. I could have just avoided. If he'd gotten the first turn, this would have been completely different. Still, dwarves are tough. I got mind razor off on my WR the turn the charged in the Warriors. Did 13 wounds. Unfortunately, the seven left to attack killed the entire unit. Shadow was great in this matchup. I got off withering twice, miasma once and mind razor. Miscast twice off 4 and 5 dice. Only wounds caused to my GG and weaver.
The twins were ok. I forgot to reroll the missed shots at least twice, but they weren't all that impressive. I didn't get them into close combat though. They would probably be better against monsters.
I brought:
Lvl 4 shadow, dispel scroll (like a dumbass) moonstone
Twins on the eagle
18 hag bane GG
5 hag bane GR
7 hag bane scouts
5 wild riders shields
7 hag bane scouts
10 waywatchers
He brought:
Random hero
20 long beards
20 warriors
20 miners
Canon
Canon
Bolt thrower
Organ gun
I got the first turn. Took out all but one canon with shooting. I got lucky with some rolls. Got withering off on the organ gun. He didn't bring any gyrocopters. Overall, it was probably over after my first turn. I could have just avoided. If he'd gotten the first turn, this would have been completely different. Still, dwarves are tough. I got mind razor off on my WR the turn the charged in the Warriors. Did 13 wounds. Unfortunately, the seven left to attack killed the entire unit. Shadow was great in this matchup. I got off withering twice, miasma once and mind razor. Miscast twice off 4 and 5 dice. Only wounds caused to my GG and weaver.
The twins were ok. I forgot to reroll the missed shots at least twice, but they weren't all that impressive. I didn't get them into close combat though. They would probably be better against monsters.