Sisters of Twilight Decoded

[Billthesurly]

Greetings of the new year one and all. I am playing in a Storm of Magic game this weekend and I wanted to clarify some bits about the Sisters of Twilight.

My friend and I have settled on Naestra and Arahan being two different characters when on Gwindalor. They are each T4 with 3 wounds each.
Since Gwindalor is "Monstrous Cavalry" he is their mount and basically never gets hit by anything. (Just like a regular Character on an Eagle.)

Here's our bits: They are two riders so they are hit separately by incoming shooting but if the wounds add up to six they are killed.

A bolt shooter or a cannon that hits the model hits each of the twins and then has to wound each of them individually in turn. Meaning the bolt or cannonball rolls to wound the first sister and then rolls for number of wounds, then it rolls to wound the second sister followed by a second roll for number of wounds. Meaning a cannon ball does not have to flat out roll a six in order to kill them both in the "same phase" which we find to be a bit steep and actually impossible for a bolt shooter to accomplish. This is exactly how two characters standing side by side in a "unit of two characters" would be hit by a cannonball coming from their flank. If the bolt or cannonball fails to kill the first sister it stops without hitting the second - just as it would in any other rank penetration situation.

We classed them and their eagle as a "unit" so that they must always shoot at the same target. This is based on the fact that if their dragon was to be killed out from under them they immediately form an infantry unit of two.

I know that there are a lot of interpretations out there and none are canon. I just want to know if this sounds reasonable to you guys. The method we use makes them viable for play without being ridiculously hard to kill. If anybody has better information or ideas I would love to hear them. Thank you for your support.

[Aezeal]

Here's our bits: They are two riders so they are hit separately by incoming shooting but if the wounds add up to six they are killed.

But randomized or really total, do you randomize and each has to get 3? or just 6 in total?

[Billthesurly]

I believe that a unit of two (or more) characters would randomize incoming shooting. Not sure. I know that if a unit drops below 5 models then shooting is randomized between the rank-and-file and the character(s) but I'm not sure when the unit is made up of nothing but characters. I suspect it would still be randomized between the two.

[Aezeal]

yeah I think it should, I was just wondering if that was what you where doing too. It does make them harder to kill than just saying they have 6 wounds.. you might do 8 wounds and still have one of the sisters alive and get them all back.

[NonnoSte]

Actually the hits are not randomized if the unit gets below 5 models of r'n'f, but distributed in the most equal way between the models in the unit (ie: 6 hits= 3 hits each Sister).

They remain quite resiliant anyway and I would still argue they don't randomize hits because of their own rule.

[hutobega]

They were never RnF to begin with. Here's an issue they are one model ( Kind of like riding a monster but not really) If a cannon hit them I think you have to assume it hits them both. Either way i hate these characters because they are confusing, ruled terribly, and Games workshop doesn't even care to try and write a real FAQ about them.

[NonnoSte]

If a cannon hit them I think you have to assume it hits them both.

Sure it does, as well as any template touching their base.

Be they on the Eagle or on the Dragon.
(Did I write it in an existing English form, or is it just a failed attempt at translating from Italian?)

[Billthesurly]

Actually the hits are not randomized if the unit gets below 5 models of r'n'f, but distributed in the most equal way between the models in the unit (ie: 6 hits= 3 hits each Sister).

They remain quite resiliant anyway and I would still argue they don't randomize hits because of their own rule.

I would be willing to play them either way. We have attempted to work it the same way it would be if they were both on foot in a character unit of two. If a unit of 12 Dwarves shot a unit of two characters with crossbows and scored 7 hits, (damn fine shooting by the way) would the hits be randomized or not? I think they would be. Have to do a BRB dive and find out.

The easy way would just be to say; "If the Quarrelers score 6 unsaved wounds they kill them" and be done with it. But we are trying to adhere to at least the spirit of the BRB shooting rules as closely as we may.

All this keeping in mind that there is no OFFICIAL RULING on this mess so I appreciate the efforts to puzzle it out.

[Bitey]

If a cannon hit them I think you have to assume it hits them both.

Sure it does, as well as any template touching their base.

Be they on the Eagle or on the Dragon.
(Did I write it in an existing English form, or is it just a failed attempt at translating from Italian?)

Strictly speaking the english would be " 'whether' they 'are' on the Eagle or on the Dragon " so present tense plural (are) whereas what you have is the infinitive (to be)

'Be they' construction is not wrong its just archaic/ medieval- "Who goes there? be ye friend or foe?" that sort of thing

ciao

[NonnoSte]

Actually the hits are not randomized if the unit gets below 5 models of r'n'f, but distributed in the most equal way between the models in the unit (ie: 6 hits= 3 hits each Sister).

They remain quite resiliant anyway and I would still argue they don't randomize hits because of their own rule.

I would be willing to play them either way. We have attempted to work it the same way it would be if they were both on foot in a character unit of two. If a unit of 12 Dwarves shot a unit of two characters with crossbows and scored 7 hits, (damn fine shooting by the way) would the hits be randomized or not? I think they would be. Have to do a BRB dive and find out.

The easy way would just be to say; "If the Quarrelers score 6 unsaved wounds they kill them" and be done with it. But we are trying to adhere to at least the spirit of the BRB shooting rules as closely as we may.

All this keeping in mind that there is no OFFICIAL RULING on this mess so I appreciate the efforts to puzzle it out.

On the BRB it looks pretty clear to me that in any case in which the condition of 5+ r'n'f models is not matched you have to distribute equally the hits between all the models in the unit (except for monsters+handlers or ridden monsters/chariots AND Naestra+Arahan on CeithinHar/on foot, where you randomize instead).
So I think it's up to you if you prefer to follow the BRB or the AB.

'Be they' construction is not wrong its just archaic/ medieval- "Who goes there? be ye friend or foe?" that sort of thing

Damn archaic and mediaeval Italian!!
You can't imagine how much I'd like the spoken Italian was simple, plain and linear as the English is.
But then I also like the structured and elaborate italian classicism.

Present tense... Wow!

[Billthesurly]

I think were going to go with a total of six non-saved shooting wounds being enough to kill the sisters off the back of Gwindalor. Randomizing between the two seems a bit clumsy and not in the Spirit of the thing.

Thanks for the input. Our big 25000 pt Storm of Magic game is this Saturday. Wood Elves and High Elves vs Dwarves. Much fun to be had by all.

[NonnoSte]

What are you going to run alongside the Twins?

[Billthesurly]

The whole army of 5000 points? Good lord. Well let's see:
Treeman Ancient
4th lvl Weaver (Moonstone, Dispell, HoDA)
3rd lvl Weaver (Sivejier's Hex Scroll, Ironcurse Icon)
Neastra & Arahan on Gwindalor
Shadowdancer (Sword of striking, Dragonbane Gem)
Branchwraith

50 GG in units of 10 with musicians all carrying various enchanted arrows.
24 GR in units of 6
40 EG w Standard of Discipline (insert lvl 4 weaver here)
18 WR in units of 6
15 Deepwood Scouts in units of 5 (Hagbanes)
20 Wildwood Rangers
4 Warhawk Riders
12 Wardancers in 2 units of 6 (character assassins)
10 Waywatchers in 2 units of 5
2 Great Eagles
...and a partridge in a pear tree...

In short, just about every (non-tree type) figure I own. I decided to leave the Dryads and Treekin at home. And for the 1250 SOM points:
The Big Bound Emperor Dragon
6 Yehtees
2 Scroll/magic item/things whose names I don't remember. One of which is Wyssians Loaded Dice.