Random Army? - Now with All Armies

Discuss your latest army list or composition, or ideas on how to create your next tournament-winning army.

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Random Army? - Now with All Armies

Postby jgibz » 26 May 2014, 05:30

I thought it would be fun play games with randomly generated army, but that isn't an easy thing to just write a random army, so I built a program to do it: http://www.supremeheroism.com.

Have fun with it, let me know what you think, and especially let me know if you find anything wrong with it.
Last edited by jgibz on 03 Jun 2014, 07:25, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Random Army?

Postby arolig » 26 May 2014, 06:04

I got for 2000:
Randomly Generated Army
1 Glade Lord, Asrai Spear, Obsidian Amulet, Potion of Speed, Dragonhelm
35 Dryads, Branch Nymph
42 Glade Guard
1 Naestra & Arahan
18 Glade Riders, Standard Bearer, Moonfire Shot, Glade Knight, Musician
1 Glade Captain, Asrai Spear, Moonfire Shot, Potion of Strength, Gold Sigil Sword, Charmed Shield
7 Wardancers

Total Points: 1992
- See more at: http://www.supremeheroism.com/#sthash.xSHwszlG.dpuf

or
1 Glade Lord, Moonfire Shot, Fender's Blade
16 Dryads, Branch Nymph
15 Eternal Guard
60 Glade Guard
15 Dryads, Branch Nymph
16 Waywatchers, Waywatcher Sentinel
1 Glade Captain, Moonfire Shot, Asrai Spear, Elven Steed, Hail of Doom Arrow, Shrieking Blade, Pigeon Plucker Pendant
10 Wildwood Rangers

Total Points: 1971 - See more at: http://www.supremeheroism.com/#sthash.xSHwszlG.dpuf



2500 (not too stupid)
1 Branchwraith
13 Glade Riders
10 Glade Riders, Standard Bearer, Glade Knight, Musician, Moonfire Shot
17 Eternal Guard
1 Spellweaver, Elven Steed, Asrai Longbow, Level 4 Wizard, Power Scroll, Fender's Blade
1 Glade Lord, Shield, Swiftshiver Shards, Great Weapon, Tormentor Sword, Charmed Shield, Talisman of Endurance
14 Waywatchers, Waywatcher Sentinel
1 Naestra & Arahan
1 Treeman, Strangleroots
1 Great Eagles
11 Wildwood Rangers, Standard Bearer, Musician, Wildwood Warden
1 Glade Captain, Moonfire Shot, Elven Steed, Sword of Striking, Potion of Speed
5 Deepwood Scouts


Total Points: 2482 - See more at: http://www.supremeheroism.com/#sthash.xSHwszlG.dpuf



Fun enough, i inserted lots of lords and heroes!
Do these excist in other armies aswell? It would be fun to play a totally random game vs some friends :D

Fender's blade should be "fencer's blades" right?
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Re: Random Army?

Postby Shandrakor » 26 May 2014, 06:24

Not entirely awful, but... :confused:

1 Naestra & Arahan
21 Glade Guard
20 Dryads, Branch Nymph
5 Glade Riders, Standard Bearer, Glade Knight, Musician
10 Eternal Guard
10 Eternal Guard, Standard Bearer, Musician, Shields, Eternal Warden
16 Tree Kin, Tree Kin Elder
18 Deepwood Scouts
5 Glade Riders, Standard Bearer, Musician, Glade Knight
1 Durthu
1 Treeman
1 Glade Lord


Total Points: 2986 - See more at: http://www.supremeheroism.com/#sthash.E2sThdMU.dpuf
Well, my ideas for the next book turned out to be a bust.
But it was still fun working on something of this scale.
For those who care:
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=22620
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Re: Random Army?

Postby McRage » 26 May 2014, 06:37

Cool, But there are no command or arrows on glade guards.
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Re: Random Army?

Postby jgibz » 26 May 2014, 07:47

arolig wrote:Fun enough, i inserted lots of lords and heroes!
Do these excist in other armies aswell? It would be fun to play a totally random game vs some friends :D

Fender's blade should be "fencer's blades" right?


You got some huge units of Glade Guard, lol =)

Right now, I have only done this for Wood Elves as that is the only army book I have. I hope to do more armies soon, have any requests?

Thanks for the catch on the Fencer's Blades. Should be fixed now.

Shandrakor wrote:Not entirely awful, but...


That is what makes a random army so fun! You rolled a very tree-oriented army! That huge block of Tree Kin would be an interesting sight. How would you run them? 4x4?

McRage wrote:Cool, But there are no command or arrows on glade guards.


I'll look into that, I may have fixed it a little bit, but it is hard to tell with the randomness. Looks like I might still have something going on that takes it forever to load some times.
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Re: Random Army?

Postby Drstrangelove » 26 May 2014, 08:40

1 Spellweaver, Level 4 Wizard, Elven Steed, Asrai Longbow, Daith's Reaper, Scroll of Leeching
20 Eternal Guard
55 Glade Guard, Standard Bearer, Arcane Bodkins, Lord's Bowman, Musician
1 Spellsinger, Level 2 Wizard, Sivejir's Hex Scroll
12 Wild Riders, Standard Bearer, Musician, Wild Hunter
5 Deepwood Scouts
1 Glade Lord, Hagbane Tips, Additional Hand Weapon, Ruby Ring of Ruin, Sword of Swift Slaying, Dragonbane Gem
1 Great Eagles
3 Tree Kin

this is pretty darn cool. Any chance of expanding it for every army (with the 2000% increase in work that would entail)? I would happily run a tournament in which people show up with all their models, and generate a random army at the start of each round.
It would be frustrating, hilarious, exhilarating..........the full opera of warhammer!
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Re: Random Army?

Postby Drstrangelove » 26 May 2014, 08:42

Scratch the above list!

1 Glade Lord, Starfire Shards, Additional Hand Weapon, Potion of Strength, Berserker Sword, Dawnstone
20 Eternal Guard
17 Dryads, Branch Nymph
16 Glade Guard, Standard Bearer, Musician, Hagbane Tips, Lord's Bowman
1 Treeman, Strangleroots
1 Spellweaver, Level 4 Wizard, Asrai Longbow, Elven Steed, Sword of Bloodshed, Ironcurse Icon
3 Tree Kin, Tree Kin Elder
1 Great Eagles
1 Glade Captain, Asrai Spear, Swiftshiver Shards, Great Stag, Arabyan Carpet
5 Waywatchers, Waywatcher Sentinel
6 Wardancers


Total Points: 1985

Now THIS is epic. Stag captain on a flying carpet???! GOLD! Glade Lord rerolling a 7+ armour save (nb: this is a euphemism for no save, in case that escaped the less humorously inclined)
Other than that an excellent list, if 15 points under
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Re: Random Army?

Postby arolig » 26 May 2014, 10:23

I would love if you also randomnized the wizards lore! :sexy:

I would like you to make randomnizer for Empire next! :D
Ofcourse all armys, but yeah! Empire! :D


Thanks for making this. When I get the time I would gladly roll up random lists together with an empire buddy and make a battlereport! :D
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Re: Random Army?

Postby Typo » 26 May 2014, 12:22

Yeah, it gave me a dragon lord with flying carpet :-) nice way to get ideas for using my collection though!
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Re: Random Army?

Postby dutchwarlord » 26 May 2014, 13:21

Randomly Generated Army
1 Shadowdancer, Level 1 Wizard, The Bow of Loren
10 Dryads, Branch Nymph
13 Eternal Guard, Standard Bearer, Shields, Musician, Eternal Warden
7 Glade Riders
22 Glade Guard, Standard Bearer, Hagbane Tips, Musician, Lord's Bowman
1 Great Eagles
1 Drycha
1 Great Eagles
3 Warhawk Riders, Wind Rider
1 Glade Captain, Battle Standard Bearer, Shield, Additional Hand Weapon, Trickster's Helm
1 Durthu
1 Treeman, Strangleroots
7 Deepwood Scouts
1 Glade Lord


Total Points: 2479

Not a bad list at all! Drycha and Durthu is a nice combination :D

One thing though, I think most people use the same miniature for a glade captain and a glade lord and for a spellsinger and spealweaver. You might want to make them the same box, like you did with glade guards and scouts.
My Wood elves Army blog (winter): http://asrai.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=21701

My pestilent Skaven blog (Clan Septik): http://s6.zetaboards.com/The_UnderEmpire/topic/8739426/5/#new

Wood elves:
Win/Draw/Lose
11/2/1
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Re: Random Army?

Postby frogboy » 26 May 2014, 14:05

Wow this is brilliant ! Thanks so much for sharing, should I sticky this thread ?

I got this 2400 point army...

1 Glade Captain, Battle Standard Bearer, Elven Steed, Asrai Spear, Hagbane Tips, Obsidian Trinket, Helm of Discord
16 Glade Guard
24 Dryads, Branch Nymph
5 Glade Riders
13 Eternal Guard, Standard Bearer, Eternal Warden, Musician
1 Spellsinger, Obsidian Amulet, Berserker Sword
5 Wardancers, Standard Bearer, Musician, Bladesinger
1 Spellsinger, Potion of Toughness, Biting Blade
3 Warhawk Riders, Wind Rider
1 Glade Lord, Swiftshiver Shards, Moonstone of the Hidden Ways, Spellshield, Sword of Anti-Heroes
1 Treeman
8 Deepwood Scouts
1 Spellweaver, The Bow of Loren, Ruby Ring of Ruin, Scroll of Shielding
3 Tree Kin
1 Great Eagles
1 Great Eagles

Total Points: 2387

Now make one for Warriors of Chaos please :D :thumbsup:
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Re: Random Army?

Postby frogboy » 26 May 2014, 14:14

Drstrangelove wrote:
this is pretty darn cool. Any chance of expanding it for every army (with the 2000% increase in work that would entail)? I would happily run a tournament in which people show up with all their models, and generate a random army at the start of each round.
It would be frustrating, hilarious, exhilarating..........the full opera of warhammer!



Haha yes that would be the best, I'm thinking each player would have to have at least 3000 points of models not including magic items, then randomise 2400 point games, the TO could have the first round of lists ready for the first games and then randomise the next during the first games play for the second etc etc.

That would be so funny. You could have bonus tournament points for players who bring the widest range of miniatures and a prize for the worst competitive list played during the tournament.

:D :thumbsup:
Its been too long since we burned a heretic, witch hunt anyone !??

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Re: Random Army?

Postby jgibz » 26 May 2014, 16:42

Overall, thanks everyone for the excitement and interest. I will try to get to other armies into the randomizer (see my response to Drstrangelove). If anyone has any feedback on the rules, specifically their phrasing, that would be appreciated.

Also, as Warhammer is an international game, I would like to get some translations up there as well. If anyone wants to translate any or all of the text on the page, that would be awesome as well.

Drstrangelove wrote:this is pretty darn cool. Any chance of expanding it for every army (with the 2000% increase in work that would entail)? I would happily run a tournament in which people show up with all their models, and generate a random army at the start of each round.
It would be frustrating, hilarious, exhilarating..........the full opera of warhammer!


My goal is to do this for every army, my problem right now is $$$. I only have the Wood Elf book and I don't have money for all of the army books. I might end up snapping pictures at the local game store of the unit pages, the magic item pages, and any other page that has either point values, upgrades that can't be taken with other upgrades, or general army constraints. I also need to figure out which models can be interchanged with each other. EDIT: ** Please don't post any copyrighted images or information to this thread **

Drstrangelove wrote:Now THIS is epic. Stag captain on a flying carpet???! GOLD! Glade Lord rerolling a 7+ armour save (nb: this is a euphemism for no save, in case that escaped the less humorously inclined)
Other than that an excellent list, if 15 points under


That is hilarious, but points out a flaw in my randomizer... the carpet can only be taken with models on foot. I'll have to figure out the best way to handle that.

arolig wrote:I would love if you also randomnized the wizards lore!


At one time, I thought about making the lords random as well... I'll continue to look into that.

Typo wrote:Yeah, it gave me a dragon lord with flying carpet :-) nice way to get ideas for using my collection though!


Again, the Dragon and the Carpet can't be taken together. I'll have to fix that. I do hope it gives some fun ideas for everyone.

dutchwarlord wrote:One thing though, I think most people use the same miniature for a glade captain and a glade lord and for a spellsinger and spealweaver. You might want to make them the same box, like you did with glade guards and scouts.


Thanks. I actually have the capability to do that, but I wasn't sure how to best build the form for people. I'll work on it.

frogboy wrote:Wow this is brilliant ! Thanks so much for sharing, should I sticky this thread ?


Thanks for the excitement. If the community wants the thread stickied, that is fine with me.

frogboy wrote:Haha yes that would be the best, I'm thinking each player would have to have at least 3000 points of models not including magic items, then randomise 2400 point games, the TO could have the first round of lists ready for the first games and then randomise the next during the first games play for the second etc etc.

That would be so funny. You could have bonus tournament points for players who bring the widest range of miniatures and a prize for the worst competitive list played during the tournament.


I love the idea of randomized tournaments. I may have to incorporate something about tournaments into the rules. Let me know if you have any ideas.
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Re: Random Army? - now with Warriors of Chaos

Postby jgibz » 28 May 2014, 03:21

With wonderful help from frogboy, I have added a second army to the random army generator -- Warriors of Chaos! Hopefully it runs as smoothly as the Wood Elves. There are a few glitches with WoC with their marks and mounts, but for the most part it should run fairly well. If you have any connections to WoC forums, pass the word along.

Empire will likely be next unless there is popular demand for another army, but it will probably be awhile as this took me about 20 hours of work and I have to get some painting done =).
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Re: Random Army? - now with Warriors of Chaos

Postby frogboy » 28 May 2014, 13:06

Realm of Chaos, Muhahahahahahahaha :evil:

First Warriors of Chaos Army

1 Exalted Hero, Barded Chaos Steed, Additional Hand Weapon, Shield, Arabyan Carpet
1 Chaos Chariot, Mark of Nurgle
1 Chaos Chariot, Mark of Nurgle, Mark of Tzeentch
22 Chaos Marauders, flails, Mark of Khorne, Musician, great weapons, Standard Bearer
8 Marauder Horsemen, Mark of Slaanesh, javelins
1 Chaos Lord, Mark of Slaanesh, Additional Hand Weapon, Gorebeast Chariot, Wizarding Hat, Shrieking Blade
6 Chaos Knights, lances, Mark of Khorne, Mark of Tzeentch
1 Hellcannon
1 Gorebeast Chariot, Mark of Khorne
1 Exalted Hero, Flail, Shield, Barded Chaos Steed, Warrior Bane, Dragonbane Gem, Helm of Discord, The Terrifying Mask of EEE!
19 Chaos Warriors


Total Points: 2378 - See more at: http://www.supremeheroism.com/#sthash.96vXLyks.dpuf

Also I've put a link in the Chamber of Everchosen Forum so hopefully get some feed back from there too :D :thumbsup:

Stickied for Awsomeness :D :thumbsup:
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Re: Random Army? - now with Warriors of Chaos

Postby hutobega » 28 May 2014, 13:40

i want to try this when i get home hehe!
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Re: Random Army? - now featuring High Elves

Postby jgibz » 28 May 2014, 22:42

So, I am not quite sure how to model Empire Detachments yet, so I decided to do High Elves next. High Elves are now available. There is an issue with champions that can take magic items not being able to yet, but I will get that fixed.

Let all your High Elves friends know on their forums!
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Re: Random Army? - now featuring High Elves

Postby Git » 29 May 2014, 01:07

Thank you for the effort! It's a really interesting project. I think it's great that you've done my oldest army, my most frequent opponent's and one of my other "regular" opponent's armies. Empire is a great choice as the next one, and I hope you have the time and energy to make one for all the armies. :)
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Re: Random Army? - with WoC, High Elves, and Orcs and Goblin

Postby jgibz » 29 May 2014, 03:12

Git wrote:Thank you for the effort! It's a really interesting project. I think it's great that you've done my oldest army, my most frequent opponent's and one of my other "regular" opponent's armies. Empire is a great choice as the next one, and I hope you have the time and energy to make one for all the armies. :)


Thanks for the interest. It should provide hours of entertainment for people.

Working away at the other armies. Orcs and Goblins are now up. I am getting better with my automation.
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Re: Random Army? - with WoC, High Elves, and Orcs and Goblin

Postby jgibz » 29 May 2014, 03:38

K, Last one tonight as the rest of the armies won't import as easily. I just added Beastmen. Although, I am fairly unfamiliar with them so they may be completely wrong (in particular, the herds seem incorrect).

I'll try to add more tomorrow.
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Re: Random Army? - with WoC, HE, O&G, and Beastmen

Postby Drstrangelove » 29 May 2014, 14:05

Yay beastmen!
I'm very familiar with the army, when I get a chance I'll check it out thoroughly and let you know of any issues :D
Thanks so much for all the work you've put in!
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Re: Random Army? - Now with Most Armies

Postby jgibz » 29 May 2014, 17:08

Ok, here is the latest list of armies (http://www.supremeheroism.com):

Beastmen
Bretonnia
Dark Elves
High Elves
Lizardmen
Ogre Kingdoms
Orcs and Goblins
Skaven
The Empire
Tomb Kings
Warriors of Chaos
Wood Elves

Some notes:
In general, if a unit requires a character in order to be taken, it isn't enforced
In general, I don't think the algorithm is giving magic standards to standard bearers that can take them, let me know if you see one
Warriors of Chaos are being given multiple marks some times
Skaven don't have access to their special weapons yet
Bretonnia doesn't have access to its virtues yet
The Empire doesn't have detachments yet
High Elf champions that can take magic items aren't allowed to do so yet

There may be other issues that I haven't found yet

Upcoming armies:
Daemons of Chaos are complex and I need to look at them closer
Dwarfs have runes (that are pretty critical to a decent army) and I need to build that into the database
Vampire Counts have special magic items that I need to build into the database and algorithm as well

If you play any games with random armies, I would love to hear about it! Have fun out there!
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Re: Random Army? - Now with Most Armies

Postby arolig » 31 May 2014, 01:01

I can't remember the lists but we played a couple random games today.
Both a 1000 points. We did not press random until after deploying all terrain.

The first game was WE vs Empire.

Wood elfs got:
Glade Lord, moonfire arrows, great wapon and warriors bane magic wapon, + some reroll armour save(he did not have one :roll: )
2 Spellsingers, lvl 1. We randomized both lores and they both got light. THey got lots of useless items, like sword of might, potion of foolhardiness, and even the HoDa (but not an asrai longbow)

11 Dryads
13 eternal guard with musican
6 wardancers
9 scouts, hagbane
5 waywatchers.


Empire got:
1 arch lector with fencers blades and other unuseful items.
20 something halberds
20 something swordmen
23 knightly orders(no upgrades)

Safe to say Empire won.


Next game was my friends HE vs Empire.
HE got no magic, some cav, few shooting.

Empire got:
Sigmar priest on horse
11 militia
23 halberds
a couple knight blocks.


My empire firend had cannons, steamtanks, gryphs and hurricanums. Why did they not show up. Only core.
Maybe the generator shoudl focus on paying a core tax and then pick from other parts of the random list? :nod:

The game was really fun though. 1000 points, cheap, fast and cheery. Play with whatever wierd magic items u got.
Empire needs and option for BSB by the way.
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Re: Random Army? - Now with Most Armies

Postby jgibz » 31 May 2014, 03:14

That is wonderful! I am so glad you had fun with it...

What elements were to most fun to play with? A huge unit of knights? The fact that you had to deal with missing elements in the army, like no magic? The feeling that if you lost, it wasn't because of you? :)

arolig wrote:Maybe the generator shoudl focus on paying a core tax and then pick from other parts of the random list?


Right now, the algorithm is supposed to do something roughly like:

Step 1: Pick a random Lord or Hero (to make sure there is a general)
Step 2: Pick a random unit from core till the generated army value is greater than 25% of the desired point value + the value of the Lord or Hero that was chosen (e.g., if you tell it to do a 1000 point army, and it picks a hero for 100 points, the algorithm will keep picking from core till the generated army value is at least 350 points)
Step 3: Pick a random unit from any category (Lord, Hero, Core, Special, Rare) within army rules till the generated army point value is within 50 points of the target point value

So the way that step 3 is set up, the algorithm disproportionately picks from both characters and core. I have thought about weighting step 3 to more likely pick from special and rare, but I am not sure yet. Any thoughts on this matter would be great.

While I am on the subject of tweaks to the algorithm... the algorithm is also has a predisposition to pick large units over small units as it 1) picks a random unit from the army list, 2) gets the minimum size of the unit and the maximum size (either a limit by the army book or the number of models that the user has that the algorithm hasn't already used), then 3) pick a random number between the min size and the max size. For example, if you have 80 Glade Guard models, the first time the algorithm randomly picks to add a Glade Guard unit, it is going to pick a random number between 10 and 80 inclusive. What, if any, would be a better way to pick unit sizes. Keep in mind that the algorithm should be the same for all armies, so good unit size for Wood Elves may be a terrible unit size for Skaven.

While I am on the subject of Skaven, I couldn't register for the Skaven forum for some strange reason. If anyone wants to let them know about this discussion and the website, that would be great! I didn't know if there was a forum for Beastmen either, so if someone knows about one for them, that would be great if you could post there too.

Keep sending in those battle reports!
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Re: Random Army? - Now with Most Armies

Postby Drstrangelove » 31 May 2014, 05:53

This is such an amazing project!

My key problem with it is it's tendency to propose huge unit sizes on a fairly consistent basis. It really needs to utilise a bellcurve when generating unit sizes, with a mean of (eg) 20 for core, 15 for special and 10 for rare.....with values 1SD out from that occuring 30% of the time and units 2SD out from that occuring only 4% of the time.......etc etc.

Because as much as it would be mildly amusing to plonk a unit of 87 glade riders onto the back board edge on T2........the fun would probably end there.

If the unit sizes were slightly more moderate a tournament based off this thing would actually be possible! Which would be AMAZEBALLS!
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