Random Army? - Now with All Armies

Discuss your latest army list or composition, or ideas on how to create your next tournament-winning army.

Moderator: Council of Elders

Re: Random Army? - Now with Most Armies

Postby jgibz » 31 May 2014, 07:19

Drstrangelove wrote:It really needs to utilise a bellcurve when generating unit sizes


This is a great idea. The issue I need to figure out is what the mean size for each troop is.

For example,

TK mean = 5? SD of 2?
GG mean = 15? SD 5?
GR mean = 7? SD 3?
jgibz
Newcomer
Newcomer
 
Posts: 75
Joined: 23 Apr 2014, 19:14

Re: Random Army? - Now with Most Armies

Postby Drstrangelove » 31 May 2014, 07:45

Numbers don't have to be completely optimal or perfect (if you are using this thing it's for fun, not an optimal list), so yeah something like those numbers would be fine. Sacrifices a little whackiness for a lot more usability.
".....and you are ugly! But it the morning I shall be sober!"
Drstrangelove
Bladesinger
Bladesinger
 
Posts: 729
Joined: 17 Aug 2013, 03:26

Re: Random Army? - Now with Most Armies

Postby Git » 31 May 2014, 08:46

jgibz wrote:While I am on the subject of Skaven, I couldn't register for the Skaven forum for some strange reason. If anyone wants to let them know about this discussion and the website, that would be great! I didn't know if there was a forum for Beastmen either, so if someone knows about one for them, that would be great if you could post there too.

Keep sending in those battle reports!

Posted to the Under-Empire.
Git
Horsemaster
User avatar Horsemaster
 
Posts: 407
Joined: 05 Apr 2011, 11:34
Location: Norway

Re: Random Army? - Now with Most Armies

Postby Cihrai » 31 May 2014, 14:05

This looks absolutely incredible, great idea! Thank you for your work on this, I'm sure the kinks can be worked out (though it is already a great basis that you can tweak from if nothing else) :)

Feedback time!
- I only tried the wood elves yet (will play around with dark elves and warriors of chaos later), but I noticed it keeps giving me more Eternal Guard than I have models for. I set it to 20 with shields and it gave me 31 in total, so I tested with setting the non-shield option to 20 as well (in case they were linked somehow) but then it gave me 60 or so instead. Which is a little difficult since I only have about 20 right now :D
- How about adding some sort of scaling for choices - what I mean by that is for example "I want at least two hero choices", "I want no more than one lord choice", "I want no more than 25% of the army to be character choices", "I want at least 25% to be chosen from special", "I want no single unit of this type to be above/below X models/points", etc. You get the idea I'm sure. This is not to take away from the completely random (that's FUN!), it just gives more options in providing list ideas or setting up a tournament using this tool :)
- I echo the previous sentiments about combining lord/captain and singer/weaver models. The same can be said for treemen/ancient and so on obviously.
- Also noted above, some automated scaling on a bell curve for unit sizes would be good. This does require some data collection though, maybe run a few polls in an appropriate section of the forum of what unit sizes people usually take of each unit to give you some basic numbers?

As for ideas regarding usage (after already generating a list with this incredible tool), some simple rules when running games with randomized armies could be:
- To be able to tweak one magic item per character (or just tweak one magic item in the list period)
- To get to replace one unit with one of your choice (obviously limited to the existing rules for army creation)
- To be able to replace a set number of points (or a percentage)

In short, this is awesome. Thank you again, I will definitely try to coax some people at the local store to try games based on this with me :)
Re-awakened from a long slumber to defend Athel Loren once more... all hail the Eternity King!
Cihrai
Newcomer
Newcomer
 
Posts: 28
Joined: 04 May 2014, 02:00

Re: Random Army? - Now with Most Armies

Postby frogboy » 31 May 2014, 15:10

Although I'm not completely opposed to tweaks and such to make it run better I'd like to see it stay random, if you tweak it too much then there's really no point in using it, if your talking stuff like "oh I want this or I'd like my units to be a certain size" then just write an ordinary list, personally I think it defeats the object as once the little bugs are ironed out a player can already influence the outcome of the generated army by imputing certain models and not others.

Using house rules and common sense will help to keep the games between friends more reasonable I agree. Dicing off has always been a traditional way of settling disputes, so if you get an eagle noble with a flying carpet just use a D6 and create some new stuff. Simples :D :thumbsup:

Frogboy
Its been too long since we burned a heretic, witch hunt anyone !??

sentinalofthewoods wrote:yes, unicorn riders that shoot rainbows..hell yeah
frogboy
Elder of the Council
User avatar Elder of the Council (1) Gold Donator (1)
 
Posts: 2019
Joined: 08 Aug 2010, 21:52
Location: South Wales, United Kingdom

Re: Random Army? - Now with Most Armies

Postby Beithir Seun » 31 May 2014, 15:29

Just tried this for fun, and this is the army I got:

1 Spellsinger, Asrai Longbow, Staff of Sorcery, Opal Amulet
91 Eternal Guard, Standard Bearer
1 Treeman
37 Wild Riders, Shields

Total Points: 2357


Despite not having *all* the figures (I need another 30 Eternal Guard and another 7 Wild Riders...), I really want to give this a try :D


Personally, if you want to keep the tool specifically as a *random* army generator, the only tweak I'd make is to ensure the random generated lists only use figures that are available.
Carrot and Stick ~ Beithir's Blog
Beithir Seun
The Philosopher
User avatar Content Admin (1) Council Leader (1) LEAF Leader (1) Campaign Team (1)
 
Posts: 17372
Joined: 18 Apr 2006, 18:03
Location: Surrounded by Night Goblins in furry hats...

Re: Random Army? - Now with Most Armies

Postby Cihrai » 31 May 2014, 15:59

Beithir Seun wrote:91 Eternal Guard, Standard Bearer


This RNG really REALLY likes eternal guard :D

Personally, if you want to keep the tool specifically as a *random* army generator, the only tweak I'd make is to ensure the random generated lists only use figures that are available.


Absolutely agree, my point in suggesting otherwise is not meant to take away from the completely random (which is hilarious and awesome) but to add an option (as in optional) to have it come up less random by making simple rule sets that might be a good basis for a small tournament for example :)
Re-awakened from a long slumber to defend Athel Loren once more... all hail the Eternity King!
Cihrai
Newcomer
Newcomer
 
Posts: 28
Joined: 04 May 2014, 02:00

Re: Random Army? - Now with Most Armies

Postby Beithir Seun » 31 May 2014, 17:18

Cihrai wrote:Absolutely agree, my point in suggesting otherwise is not meant to take away from the completely random (which is hilarious and awesome) but to add an option (as in optional) to have it come up less random by making simple rule sets that might be a good basis for a small tournament for example :)



Sorry, that wasn't intended as criticism of your ideas, and I do understand that they would be optional. It's just that such changes would no longer make this a *random* army generator. I completely agree that making simple rules and/or adding options would make the generator eminently more useful, but it obviously takes away the random element that jgibz was originally after, and a "tournament army generator" might not be what he wants. Hence why the only change I think *needs* making is to only generate armies using the figures available. Everything else is, as you say, optional :smirk:
Carrot and Stick ~ Beithir's Blog
Beithir Seun
The Philosopher
User avatar Content Admin (1) Council Leader (1) LEAF Leader (1) Campaign Team (1)
 
Posts: 17372
Joined: 18 Apr 2006, 18:03
Location: Surrounded by Night Goblins in furry hats...

Re: Random Army? - Now with Most Armies

Postby dutchwarlord » 31 May 2014, 17:46

Also, most people do not have 90 eternal guards, so it should not be a big problem.
My Wood elves Army blog (winter): http://asrai.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=21701

My pestilent Skaven blog (Clan Septik): http://s6.zetaboards.com/The_UnderEmpire/topic/8739426/5/#new

Wood elves:
Win/Draw/Lose
11/2/1
dutchwarlord
Newcomer
User avatar Newcomer
 
Posts: 94
Joined: 19 Nov 2011, 19:46
Location: the Netherlands

Re: Random Army? - Now with Most Armies

Postby frogboy » 31 May 2014, 17:47

Beithir Seun wrote:....Hence why the only change I think *needs* making is to only generate armies using the figures available.


I think that's what the intention is, if you enter more miniatures than you own naturally you won't get a playable army :paranoid:
Its been too long since we burned a heretic, witch hunt anyone !??

sentinalofthewoods wrote:yes, unicorn riders that shoot rainbows..hell yeah
frogboy
Elder of the Council
User avatar Elder of the Council (1) Gold Donator (1)
 
Posts: 2019
Joined: 08 Aug 2010, 21:52
Location: South Wales, United Kingdom

Re: Random Army? - Now with Most Armies

Postby Zarylin » 31 May 2014, 19:27

This is neat!

I wanted to chime in on the idea of tweaking the army you recieve: what if you just put in a rule that says something like, you may spend any unused points however you like (legally, of course)?

So you can maybe take some armor for the armorless lord who rerolls armor saves, or a bow for the spellsinger trying to stab people with a HoDA.

This way, not only do you feel like you have a tiny bit of control, you also know you aren't starting with 50 points less than your opponent, or bringing options that can't even be used at all.
Zarylin
Newcomer
Newcomer
 
Posts: 2
Joined: 06 May 2014, 04:41

Re: Random Army? - Now with Most Armies

Postby Beithir Seun » 31 May 2014, 22:03

frogboy wrote:
Beithir Seun wrote:....Hence why the only change I think *needs* making is to only generate armies using the figures available.


I think that's what the intention is, if you enter more miniatures than you own naturally you won't get a playable army :paranoid:



I didn't enter more miniatures than I own, that's the point. I have 60 Eternal Guard (which I know is an extraordinary number anyway), and that's what I listed. It still included a unit of 91 Eternal Guard, despite me saying I only had 60. Likewise, I listed 30 Wild Riders and it gave me a unit of 37...

I've tried generating armies with more "reasonable" amounts of different figures available, and I still get units using more figures than I've stated I have available. Including two Battle Standard Bearers at one point!
Carrot and Stick ~ Beithir's Blog
Beithir Seun
The Philosopher
User avatar Content Admin (1) Council Leader (1) LEAF Leader (1) Campaign Team (1)
 
Posts: 17372
Joined: 18 Apr 2006, 18:03
Location: Surrounded by Night Goblins in furry hats...

Re: Random Army? - Now with Most Armies

Postby arolig » 01 Jun 2014, 02:18

what I like best thus far is playing w/out certian units that u are used to heaving, and getting to use things you maybe would not. This way If you lack a wizard or a unit, u are thinking with a mentalety that your "glue-unit" has just been wiped off the board. Tactics force you to improvise with what u have got, and really make use of the terrain. (we med bystanders set up a board before we pressed the random-button :lol: )

The empire knights are just nasty vs us. Empire seems like a good all arounder in all this randomness.



I got a 2k vs High Elves in(both armys random).

1 Durthu
31 Glade Guard, Swiftshiver Shards, Lord's Bowman
3 Warhawk Riders
12 Wild Riders
14 Eternal Guard, Eternal Warden
1 Treeman, Strangleroots
5 Glade Riders, Moonfire Shot
8 Deepwood Scouts - See more at: http://www.supremeheroism.com/#sthash.d2azQFxc.dpuf


Vs(unit count is not perfect:
Ariel
Phoenix lord

5 Silver Helms
5 Dragon princes
30 ish archer/spearmen
8 fast cav shooty archers
8 sisters
20 spearmen
15 sword masters
14 white lions
eagle
Bolt thrower



Very fun indeed. We rolled dawn attack and I got turn 1.
Most things moved up and. Glade guards(drunk on my flank) fires 62 shots kills 2 dragon princes.
The scouts on other flank fire at half-awake sisters and scare them away.

High elf bolt thrower and bows take down 7 wild riders.
High elf eagle charges warhawks, takes some wounds, make em flee and run them down.

Turn 2
Wood elfs archers move a bit, no targets left on the flank. Wild riders charge into white lions.
Wild riders kill all and overrun into large infanteryunit+fastcav and lords. Durtu fails charge but scares of eagle.

High elfs charge silver helms into eternal guard in centre, wild riders get reared by dragon princes
2 wild riders survive the carnage of it all, kills bunches of high elf fastcav back, and stick.

swordmaster also charge the treeman,he kills bunches

Turn 3:
31 glade guard move into a 6 story building and start shooting carnage.
Durthu Rears into the dragon princes.


2 turns later...
Durthu has killed a lot. High elfs have big infateryblock+ a couple horses, 3 spearmen and a bolt throwe left.

Wood elfs has a full wounds durthu, big archer block(500 points!) in building, 4 eternal guard protecting the building and 8 scouts that have used 2 turns to finish off small untis that of HE infantery that have rallied.

A big central close combat was really make or break for the wood elfs. It was hard to withstand all that magic and augments against me. suprisingly Durthu got Wyssans wildform through trice in 5 turns, with only one misscast that did not hurt him.
Funny funny game! could have swinged both ways, the randomness of dawn attack was fun.

So wood elfs led with like 500 points in turn five when we called the game.
arolig
Trusted Bowman
Trusted Bowman
 
Posts: 178
Joined: 28 Apr 2014, 09:38

Re: Random Army? - Now with Most Armies

Postby frogboy » 01 Jun 2014, 08:25

Yes also getting larger units of trolls for WoC and 2 battle standard bearers for WE. Didn't realise this was happing. :o
Its been too long since we burned a heretic, witch hunt anyone !??

sentinalofthewoods wrote:yes, unicorn riders that shoot rainbows..hell yeah
frogboy
Elder of the Council
User avatar Elder of the Council (1) Gold Donator (1)
 
Posts: 2019
Joined: 08 Aug 2010, 21:52
Location: South Wales, United Kingdom

Re: Random Army? - Now with Most Armies

Postby Drstrangelove » 01 Jun 2014, 08:30

that high elf army is VERY good if it's random.

@the above discussion: I don't want to take away from the randomness by making it impossible for certain outcomes to occur, but as it currently stands when it has an equal chance of generating a number between 0-80 the average is going to be very high indeed. Simply making the chances unequal, so that it's likely to only generate ONE huge unit per list (rather than EVERY unit being huge), goes a long way to making it less of a "Deathstar Generating Device" and more of a "Random Army Generator"
".....and you are ugly! But it the morning I shall be sober!"
Drstrangelove
Bladesinger
Bladesinger
 
Posts: 729
Joined: 17 Aug 2013, 03:26

Re: Random Army? - Now with Most Armies

Postby Git » 01 Jun 2014, 10:41

A couple of errors I've encountered:
With Wood Elves I keep generating more Eternal Guard than I enter. With Skaven I get a warlord on foot, even though I didn't enter a number in the box.
Git
Horsemaster
User avatar Horsemaster
 
Posts: 407
Joined: 05 Apr 2011, 11:34
Location: Norway

Re: Random Army? - Now with Most Armies

Postby jgibz » 01 Jun 2014, 18:52

Thanks everyone for the great feedback. I haven't had a chance to work on it too much, but I made the site a little more useful/informative. I'll keep working on making it better and incorporating your feedback. I want to tackle the last three armies next.
jgibz
Newcomer
Newcomer
 
Posts: 75
Joined: 23 Apr 2014, 19:14

Re: Random Army? - Now with Most Armies

Postby arolig » 02 Jun 2014, 17:54

Drstrangelove wrote:that high elf army is VERY good if it's random.


Yep it was random. Close game. A failed leadership test from Durthu and Ariel might just take that game home. My friend had never used her before. He don't play that mutch. Now he learned that he should use her more. In his case only the second lord was the odd one out. Swap him for a BSB and add in some command units and that army is good to go.


I really can't tank you enough for making this generator. It brings a very fun element to friendly games :)
arolig
Trusted Bowman
Trusted Bowman
 
Posts: 178
Joined: 28 Apr 2014, 09:38

Re: Random Army? - Now with Most Armies

Postby jgibz » 02 Jun 2014, 21:05

Dwarfs are now up. Those runes were pretty rough. Took me a couple of days (not full days) to get them working right. I am glad everyone is having fun with these games. Keep posting your stories!
jgibz
Newcomer
Newcomer
 
Posts: 75
Joined: 23 Apr 2014, 19:14

Re: Random Army? - Now with Most Armies

Postby jgibz » 03 Jun 2014, 07:24

Well, that's all of them! All the armies are now available. There are still bugs and things that I need to work out, but it is a great start.
jgibz
Newcomer
Newcomer
 
Posts: 75
Joined: 23 Apr 2014, 19:14

Re: Random Army? - Now with All Armies

Postby frogboy » 03 Jun 2014, 09:26

Brilliant ! Thanks so much for taking the time to do this :D :thumbsup:
Its been too long since we burned a heretic, witch hunt anyone !??

sentinalofthewoods wrote:yes, unicorn riders that shoot rainbows..hell yeah
frogboy
Elder of the Council
User avatar Elder of the Council (1) Gold Donator (1)
 
Posts: 2019
Joined: 08 Aug 2010, 21:52
Location: South Wales, United Kingdom

Re: Random Army? - Now with All Armies

Postby jgibz » 04 Jun 2014, 05:42

Thanks for the continued feedback. I believe that I have fixed the issue with the unit sizes being to big for the number of models input. Let me know if that is still an issue. I believe I have also greatly increased the average speed of the algorithm as well. Time for more polish.
jgibz
Newcomer
Newcomer
 
Posts: 75
Joined: 23 Apr 2014, 19:14

Re: Random Army? - Now with All Armies

Postby arolig » 05 Jun 2014, 17:44

I tend to get more sisters/wildriders and eternal guard/rangers than I put in.
arolig
Trusted Bowman
Trusted Bowman
 
Posts: 178
Joined: 28 Apr 2014, 09:38

Re: Random Army? - Now with All Armies

Postby Aben Zin » 07 Jun 2014, 17:43

Yeah, I'm having the same problem with Eternal guard. Halving the number seems to work though.

Love the concept though! Check out this lot:
1 Glade Lord, Hagbane Tips, Additional Hand Weapon, Obsidian Amulet, Potion of Speed, Sword of Swift Slaying
30 Glade Guard, Standard Bearer, Lord's Bowman, Trueflight Arrows
21 Eternal Guard, Standard Bearer, Eternal Warden
13 Dryads
10 Wildwood Rangers, Standard Bearer
1 Spellsinger, Elven Steed, Asrai Longbow, Level 2 Wizard, Berserker Sword, Obsidian Trinket, Potion of Foolhardiness
1 Spellsinger, Elven Steed, Level 2 Wizard, Asrai Longbow, Daith's Reaper
1 Spellweaver, Talisman of Endurance, Sword of Might, Ruby Ring of Ruin
1 Shadowdancer, Enchanted Shield, Talisman of Protection
1 Glade Captain, Hagbane Tips, Glittering Scales, Opal Amulet, Ironcurse Icon, Tormentor Sword
10 Wild Riders, Musician
8 Waywatchers


Total Points: 2495 - See more at: http://www.supremeheroism.com/#sthash.jcsTc7Ze.dpu

Super aggressive mages (with frenzy!), Utterly redundant items on the Glade Lord! Double 6++ on the Shadowdancer!
Totally enforcing this at my next gaming session.

Az
Aben Zin
Newcomer
Newcomer
 
Posts: 45
Joined: 21 Feb 2013, 08:51

Re: Random Army? - Now with All Armies

Postby SoDope7 » 20 Jun 2014, 09:44

Couldn't find a suitable character model to be the general. Try increasing the points.

I doesn't work!
SoDope7
Newcomer
User avatar Newcomer
 
Posts: 46
Joined: 25 Feb 2012, 01:42

PreviousNext

Return to The Call of the Hunt

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest