120 Shots a turn / Asarai Bow cloud - 2500pts
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- ohmss
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120 Shots a turn / Asarai Bow cloud - 2500pts
After spending most of the weekend play testing and list writing there appears to me to be a small number of tournament viable lists. This may or may not be one but it's a shot at making a realistic avoidance shooting list. Would consider dropping a man from each Deepwood unit to give them Standards if needed for Fortitude and objective capturing.
INITIAL LIST
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Spellweaver L4 Shadow, Elven Steed, Talisman of Preservation (in sisters)
Captain, BSB, HoDA, Steed (in sisters)
Waystalker, Bow of Loren
Waystalker, Charmed Shield
Waystalker
21 GG Trueshot, Muso, Standard
16 GG Bodkins, Muso, Standard
10 Deepwood Scouts, Bodkins
10 Deepwood Scouts, Hagbane
10 Deepwood Scouts, Hagbane
8 Sisters of Thorn, Full Command, Lichebone Pennant
10 Waywatchers
10 Waywatchers
I haven't run any averages but if half of these shots hit, and half wound, that's 30 wounds per turn. Combining the no armor saves and poisons, you might have a chance against a broader range of units. Deployment, positioning, and movement would be everything. You would have to avoid BS shooting and magic, sniping wizards at every opportunity. I think that this build can take out threats pretty well but might have problems in situations where there are too many counters to handle quickly.
TWEAKED LIST
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After play-testing the above list, and based on overall recommendations of the thread, I've tweaked this list and had great success with it. Glade Guard had to go, in favor of more mobile troops. The critical thing with this list is maneuverability and deployment. Block troops don't really cut it. Keep in mind this list is tailored towards objective based, tournament Warhammer.
Spellweaver L4 Shadow, Elven Steed, Talisman of Preservation (in sisters)
Captain, BSB, HoDA, Steed (in sisters)
Waystalker, Bow of Loren
Waystalker
Waystalker
8 Glade Riders, Std, Mus, Hagbane
6 Glade Riders, Std, Mus, Starfire
6 Glade Riders, Std, Mus, Trueshot
5 Glade Riders, Std, Mus, Hagbane
10 Deepwood Scouts, Trueshot
10 Deepwood Scouts, Hagbane
8 Deepwood Scouts, Hagbane
8 Sisters of Thorn, Full Command, Lichebone Pennant
10 Waywatchers
10 Waywatchers
INITIAL LIST
********************************************************************************************************************************************************
Spellweaver L4 Shadow, Elven Steed, Talisman of Preservation (in sisters)
Captain, BSB, HoDA, Steed (in sisters)
Waystalker, Bow of Loren
Waystalker, Charmed Shield
Waystalker
21 GG Trueshot, Muso, Standard
16 GG Bodkins, Muso, Standard
10 Deepwood Scouts, Bodkins
10 Deepwood Scouts, Hagbane
10 Deepwood Scouts, Hagbane
8 Sisters of Thorn, Full Command, Lichebone Pennant
10 Waywatchers
10 Waywatchers
I haven't run any averages but if half of these shots hit, and half wound, that's 30 wounds per turn. Combining the no armor saves and poisons, you might have a chance against a broader range of units. Deployment, positioning, and movement would be everything. You would have to avoid BS shooting and magic, sniping wizards at every opportunity. I think that this build can take out threats pretty well but might have problems in situations where there are too many counters to handle quickly.
TWEAKED LIST
********************************************************************************************************************************************************
After play-testing the above list, and based on overall recommendations of the thread, I've tweaked this list and had great success with it. Glade Guard had to go, in favor of more mobile troops. The critical thing with this list is maneuverability and deployment. Block troops don't really cut it. Keep in mind this list is tailored towards objective based, tournament Warhammer.
Spellweaver L4 Shadow, Elven Steed, Talisman of Preservation (in sisters)
Captain, BSB, HoDA, Steed (in sisters)
Waystalker, Bow of Loren
Waystalker
Waystalker
8 Glade Riders, Std, Mus, Hagbane
6 Glade Riders, Std, Mus, Starfire
6 Glade Riders, Std, Mus, Trueshot
5 Glade Riders, Std, Mus, Hagbane
10 Deepwood Scouts, Trueshot
10 Deepwood Scouts, Hagbane
8 Deepwood Scouts, Hagbane
8 Sisters of Thorn, Full Command, Lichebone Pennant
10 Waywatchers
10 Waywatchers
Last edited by ohmss on 11 May 2014, 20:53, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 120 Shots a turn / Asarai Bow cloud - 2500pts
I'm sure it's an oversight, but your wizard appears to have left home without her scroll...!
Other than that it looks suitably irritating.
Other than that it looks suitably irritating.
- ohmss
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Re: 120 Shots a turn / Asarai Bow cloud - 2500pts
I like to live dangerously!
There's no room in this list for a scroll. The ability to fire 6 sniping shots per turn at their wizards makes that easier to bear.
I played a game against high elves with this list last night. It went surprisingly well and I only lost because it was an objective based game that needed a big block for some of the points (Tournament practice)
It needs more play testing against a variety of opponents .I beat a lizardment skink cloud list with it on Sunday. I think my ideal match-up is Empire and warriors.
Having 3 drops, then characters is nice. I always get +1. I've heard there is a 0 drop list floating around.
There's no room in this list for a scroll. The ability to fire 6 sniping shots per turn at their wizards makes that easier to bear.
I played a game against high elves with this list last night. It went surprisingly well and I only lost because it was an objective based game that needed a big block for some of the points (Tournament practice)
It needs more play testing against a variety of opponents .I beat a lizardment skink cloud list with it on Sunday. I think my ideal match-up is Empire and warriors.
Having 3 drops, then characters is nice. I always get +1. I've heard there is a 0 drop list floating around.
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Re: 120 Shots a turn / Asarai Bow cloud - 2500pts
I'd like to see how that army plays. I can see a skaven army with the warpstorm (or whatever it's called) banner could prove problematic. That's very situational though (the situation being playing skaven). All in all, I think that's a win big or lose big list. Best of luck with it.
- ohmss
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Re: 120 Shots a turn / Asarai Bow cloud - 2500pts
Im actually considering dropping the captain for 2 more Waystalkers. A BSB is going to have limited use in this army.
If I do that though, I might go to Glade Riders instead of Glade Guard in core and drop the sisters altogether.
If I do that though, I might go to Glade Riders instead of Glade Guard in core and drop the sisters altogether.
- LadyLoec
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Re: 120 Shots a turn / Asarai Bow cloud - 2500pts
I have to say, I'm not feeling the love for the sisters that everyone else seems to...ohmss wrote:Im actually considering dropping the captain for 2 more Waystalkers. A BSB is going to have limited use in this army.
If I do that though, I might go to Glade Riders instead of Glade Guard in core and drop the sisters altogether.
BSB does seem a little wasted if you're going to be sans-battleline. I never really miss not having one as WE's. Waystalkers are a much better bet.
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Re: 120 Shots a turn / Asarai Bow cloud - 2500pts
I'm curious, why all the Bodkins? You already have 24 shots that completely ignore armor, would not more hagbane or trueshot merit you better on the GG and the scouts? The better chance to hit or wound seems like it would help out much more as not 100% of the enemy are going to be sporting 3+ or better.
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- Trusted Bowman
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Re: 120 Shots a turn / Asarai Bow cloud - 2500pts
I keep on seeing lists like this without eagles! Im so confused is you game plan to shoot off the entire other army before they get to you? If so you need to slow them up as much as possible. Eagle can slow a unit up for a whole turn/ or two if you lucky just for 50pts and yet no one takes them. Any reason behind this?
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Re: 120 Shots a turn / Asarai Bow cloud - 2500pts
seconded.gingersmali wrote:I keep on seeing lists like this without eagles! Im so confused is you game plan to shoot off the entire other army before they get to you? If so you need to slow them up as much as possible. Eagle can slow a unit up for a whole turn/ or two if you lucky just for 50pts and yet no one takes them. Any reason behind this?
- Ease
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Re: 120 Shots a turn / Asarai Bow cloud - 2500pts
How does an Eagle slow a unit down for a turn or two? Surely with so few wounds it'll die to anything the turn it charges/gets charged?
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Re: 120 Shots a turn / Asarai Bow cloud - 2500pts
Imagine your glade guard is a turn away from being charged. In your movement phase the eagle plops itself nicely at an angle so if charged, the enemy unit faces away from your glade guard enough so if they do charge they either overrun away from your glade guard or have to combat reform and face your glade guard. Effectively buying you another turn of shooting which will hopefully finish them off.
If they dont charge, more shooting!
If they dont charge, more shooting!
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- Wild Hunter
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Re: 120 Shots a turn / Asarai Bow cloud - 2500pts
2x 15 waywatchersohmss wrote: Having 3 drops, then characters is nice. I always get +1. I've heard there is a 0 drop list floating around.
6x waystalker
Lots of gladeriders, add some scouts with hagbane tips for anti-warmachines duties.
It's a gimmick list, fun for the look on the other guys face, and surprisingly useable, but not really competitive. In reality it needs a couple of eagles and probably some sisters of the thorn at least for the +2 dispel and curse of anraheir, which you want in an avoidance list, maybe also a weaver with life (to replace losses from shooting and magic, buff toughness and hopefully use dwellers), or heavens (blowing enemy units around, buffing shooting and dropping space rocks to close off areas of battlefield). Would still only be 3 drop + character.
Gladeguard aren't good for avoidance, they can't move fast enough if they want to shoot, and they will end up getting charged by turn 3 as there isn't anything to block the enemy chargers, and the rest of the list is staying out of the way.
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- Trusted Bowman
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Re: 120 Shots a turn / Asarai Bow cloud - 2500pts
But doesn't the 0 drop army always give up the +1 because you deploy scouts last, so your opponent is always done deploying before you?
- Beithir Seun
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Re: 120 Shots a turn / Asarai Bow cloud - 2500pts
Domine Nox wrote:But doesn't the 0 drop army always give up the +1 because you deploy scouts last, so your opponent is always done deploying before you?
Scouts don't count towards the +1 for deploying first.
Carrot and Stick ~ Beithir's Blog
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Re: 120 Shots a turn / Asarai Bow cloud - 2500pts
Where is that posted? Because I wondered about that and searching the net everyone said it did give the +1 so where is the not giving it up, as that is good news.Beithir Seun wrote: Scouts don't count towards the +1 for deploying first.
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Re: 120 Shots a turn / Asarai Bow cloud - 2500pts
I think glade guard are fine, if you only have 3 small units and you spread them out over the full length of you deployment zone, as it forces your opponent to spread their forces out and hopefully you can use good target priority to make sure you only loose 1.
The big units you have now aren't ideal for an avoidance list as they are a lot of point in one place that can't move, with eagles and other re-directors you should be able to buy your self more time, but still not the most competitive. If i was playing against your list i would deploy my combat block opposite your glade guard units and go straight for them knowing they can't run away. If you do want a big unit moonstone might be a shout but good players will see it coming.
Lastly i think designing a army specifically to win the +1 for first turn is silly as it is only a 21-15 chance that you win and you army need to be able to survive going 2nd.
The big units you have now aren't ideal for an avoidance list as they are a lot of point in one place that can't move, with eagles and other re-directors you should be able to buy your self more time, but still not the most competitive. If i was playing against your list i would deploy my combat block opposite your glade guard units and go straight for them knowing they can't run away. If you do want a big unit moonstone might be a shout but good players will see it coming.
Lastly i think designing a army specifically to win the +1 for first turn is silly as it is only a 21-15 chance that you win and you army need to be able to survive going 2nd.
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Re: 120 Shots a turn / Asarai Bow cloud - 2500pts
The 0 drop army was designed for the advantage of forcing your opponent to deploy with nothing of yours on the table, and generally keeping him guessing. Well, that and having 6 waystalkers!gingersmali wrote: Lastly i think designing a army specifically to win the +1 for first turn is silly as it is only a 21-15 chance that you win and you army need to be able to survive going 2nd.
The +1 is just a nice bonus. Like I said though, it was never intended as a serious, competitive list.
- Lord Sloth
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Re: 120 Shots a turn / Asarai Bow cloud - 2500pts
It was FAQed in the BRB FAQ, which is now found on the blacklibrary site:Domine Nox wrote:Where is that posted? Because I wondered about that and searching the net everyone said it did give the +1 so where is the not giving it up, as that is good news.Beithir Seun wrote: Scouts don't count towards the +1 for deploying first.
http://www.blacklibrary.com/faqs-and-errata.html
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- ohmss
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Re: 120 Shots a turn / Asarai Bow cloud - 2500pts
I've play-tested this list and tweaked it a little bit. I've had good success playing scenarios for Nashcon with my revised list.
It's only 108 shots per turn now though.
It's only 108 shots per turn now though.