9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby Phil Rossiter » 07 Mar 2016, 14:00

Welshy wrote:Darklands?? Could you elaborate?


http://www.mierce-miniatures.com
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby Welshy » 08 Mar 2016, 12:45

Phil Rossiter wrote:
Welshy wrote:Darklands?? Could you elaborate?


http://www.mierce-miniatures.com



Thanks man!
Ethankyou wrote: We rely on tricks, and tactics, and other t words to win our games.

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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby Phil Rossiter » 08 Mar 2016, 14:03

You're welcome.

Instead of pick your comp on the UK tourney scene, it's now pick your system.
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby Phil Rossiter » 07 Apr 2016, 22:13

List with reasoning posted by chumchu on Ulthuan:

http://www.ulthuan.net/forum/viewtopic. ... 5&start=30

Support: 993

Mage L4, Metal Magic, General 300
Dispel Scroll, Tree Singing, Bow of Wyscan
The range is worse but tree singing + 2d6 poison shots is nice. Takes down high T targets.

2x12 Archers, 308
Black arrows
Takes down light units.

2 x 5 Pathfinders 200
Damned expensive but they fill a number of niches with their 4 types of arrows. Takes down cavalry and ethereals, and sort-of chaff is they have to. Would have traded them for an RBT or queens guard in a second though.

2 Eagles 80

3 Treekin 105
Cheap, annoyingly durable unit with 9W, T5, 4+/5++. Can screen expensive infantry from LoS. Could be swapped for ambushing glade riders or hawk riders if I need more tools to deal with war machines.

Anvil: 510

Commander, Forest Guardian, BSB 170
Spear of Caradron, Enchanted Shield, Lucky Charm, Potion of Swiftness.
S5, A4 ap1, 2+ save and grants distracting to him and his unit if he score a wound. Neat little package.

2x20 Spears 340
Musican Standard

Hammer: 893

2x12 Forest rangers 318
Standard, Musician 5+ save
Cheaper than SM but has a slightly different role, more for heavy targets with ap 1, loses out to elven elite because of I5.

2x6 Wild Riders 392
Shields
Theses are so killy and fragile =) They will need screening and hiding behind forests etc.

Commander, Wild Rider 183
Great Elk, Lance, Helm of the Hunt, Shield, Elven Cloak, Hail Shot
Hits hard with Ws7 S6 A6 and LR on the charge. A one shot of ~9 S4 AP 1 hits to eradicate a chaff unit or soften up something tougher is great utility as well.

Any thoughts?
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby LadyLoec » 14 Apr 2016, 19:36

[Minor threadmancy]

At the behest of one of my friends who I haven't played since I moved 350 miles away but now wants to meet up for a game, I've been taking a more serious look at 9th. Until now, I've been in a bit of an "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mindset, as neither me nor my husband (my most regular opponent) played anything that was rendered useless or absurdly OP in 8th. However, my friend plays Tomb Kings, which obviously are a different story!

I've spent a lot of time trying to wrap my head around everything, but think I must be missing something, as I'm pretty nonplussed about the whole thing. My grumbles so far (excuse the old terminology - not got to grips with 9th unit names etc yet):

- The stuff that has reverted to 7th ed: Dryads and kindreds are a good move (our characters were bland at best before), but our glade guard seem to have lost their flexibility and edge. I don't think they deserved such a thwack with the nerf stick, as the utility of the arrows was balanced by the fact it was on a 15-17 point model with t3 and no save.
- I honestly don't know how I would tackle heavy cav at scale without access to Killing Blow (wardancers don't get it now), armour ignoring shots (because waywatchers, though versatile, don't have this ability anymore), or a good amount of bodkins (as glade guard can't take them). They were one of my biggest problems before our rewrite in 8th (and even then I had a machine gun alter to whittle them down a bit), and I don't fancy going back to being mulched in turn 2 by a cav train. Eternal guard are expensive for what they do, and will only get so lucky with that new anti-cav spear rule. Not sure how much of a problem this will realistically be, because from what I'm hearing, no-one is really taking cavalry in 9th, but my husband plays vamps and empire, and the thought of facing a vamps army heavy on the black/blood knights (likely), or double steam tank and a unit of core knights (quite possible), would give me sleepless nights.
- Similarly, lack of at-scale poison puts us back to struggling against monster mash lists, which we will probably see more of now cannons have been toned down
- On the other hand, Wildwood Rangers and Treeman Ancients are now too good. You used to have to throw your rangers at something fear causing, or watch them die horribly to the return attacks, but now they get 2 great weapon attacks regardless of what they're fighting. With ancients, you already had a toughness 6, 6 wound mage with 3+ 5++, why do they need magic items?
- 6th level spells were OTT in 8th, but that was kinda needed to counter the death stars that were becoming popular. Without them, is there a resurgence of death star units? What's our defence against them? We can't all run pure avoidance lists (and shouldn't have to).
- A lot of the random elements have disappeared (e.g. insane courage, animosity, unit champs making failed charges less likely etc). I understand the target audience for this is tournament players, the extreme element of whom will have math-hammered their list to within an inch of it's life and won't be happy when you roll snake eyes for your break test, but unpredictability is part of the game. You will fluff the odd round of combat you should win by a landslide, and sometimes a unit that should be scared out of their wits will stand and fight against overwhelming odds. Things don't always go to plan, and countering that is part of what makes a great general. Bring back the random!
- A relatively specific one, but what on earth were they thinking by giving TK and VC the opportunity to pick another hierophant/general when we've killed the first one?! Especially with vamps, where you've likely had to go to extreme lengths to nail the git in the first place.

I don't mean to be a downer, and overall, I don't think they've done a bad job, but there's nothing that makes me go "ooh, I really want to try that!", and my only "hey that's pretty neat" came when I saw wardancers were S4. There seems to be a reverse of GW's biggest sin here: The arms race. With each release, GW brought out something new, shiny, and OP, but 9th seems to be going in the opposite direction and being a bit too liberal with the nerf stick.

Can anyone sell me on 9th? So far, the only advantage I can see is that I can play my friend again, which means I'll give it a go regardless, but I'd like to go into it feeling more positive than I do now!!

Also anyone who can allay my fears RE: armour and monsters, please chime in!
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby Phil Rossiter » 14 Apr 2016, 22:57

Hi LL

LadyLoec wrote:However, my friend plays Tomb Kings, which obviously are a different story!

If they max out on magic and build cleverly with some of the Special Characters they can be decent IMHO. I haven't played them with my Wood Elves though, only High Elves.

LadyLoec wrote:- The stuff that has reverted to 7th ed: Dryads and kindreds are a good move (our characters were bland at best before), but our glade guard seem to have lost their flexibility and edge. I don't think they deserved such a thwack with the nerf stick, as the utility of the arrows was balanced by the fact it was on a 15-17 point model with t3 and no save.

I agree some of the flexibility has been lost, I imagine the designers wanted to move that to Special/Rare. Pretty much GG are back to before the 8th book, considering that Black Arrows come with ignoring movement penalties. S4 Core shooting still looks quite useful to me, especially considering that most Monstrous Cavalry for example, no longer have 1+ Armour Saves.

LadyLoec wrote:I honestly don't know how I would tackle heavy cav at scale without access to Killing Blow (wardancers don't get it now), armour ignoring shots (because waywatchers, though versatile, don't have this ability anymore), or a good amount of bodkins (as glade guard can't take them). They were one of my biggest problems before our rewrite in 8th (and even then I had a machine gun alter to whittle them down a bit), and I don't fancy going back to being mulched in turn 2 by a cav train. Eternal guard are expensive for what they do, and will only get so lucky with that new anti-cav spear rule. Not sure how much of a problem this will realistically be, because from what I'm hearing, no-one is really taking cavalry in 9th, but my husband plays vamps and empire, and the thought of facing a vamps army heavy on the black/blood knights (likely), or double steam tank and a unit of core knights (quite possible), would give me sleepless nights.

In my experience, massed shooting that carries at least a -1 AS modifier can be effective against 2+ AS knights. 1+ is a different matter. AP 3 from Waywatchers is helpful. Wild Riders, S5 Treekin, Treemen, Rangers and characters can all counter armour to some extent. Magic is big here, that's the main difference with early 8th edition. It's harder to force spells through in 9th but if you have a Lore like the new metal, you should be able to get something effective through.

LadyLoec wrote:Similarly, lack of at-scale poison puts us back to struggling against monster mash lists, which we will probably see more of now cannons have been toned down

Good point. Poison is still available of course but not in Core. Mind you, the most popular builds in late 8th go massed Trueflight and rely on shot volume and maybe Toughness debuffs to take Monsters down. So I guess it's a question of blends. What balance of shooting, how to build a magic phase that helps out against varied targets.

LadyLoec wrote: On the other hand, Wildwood Rangers and Treeman Ancients are now too good. You used to have to throw your rangers at something fear causing, or watch them die horribly to the return attacks, but now they get 2 great weapon attacks regardless of what they're fighting. With ancients, you already had a toughness 6, 6 wound mage with 3+ 5++, why do they need magic items?

I've used GW elves (including Rangers) a lot and I don't rate Rangers. The HE equivalents are just better and they're still not all that. Practically zero defence combined with vulnerability to I6 elves (quite common), no re-rolls or bonuses to hit. Ancients on the other hand are playable in late 8th and in 9th Age slightly more resilient because of new cannon/Flammable rules and magic being less instantly lethal to them. The fighter Treeman Lord looks vicious.

LadyLoec wrote:6th level spells were OTT in 8th, but that was kinda needed to counter the death stars that were becoming popular. Without them, is there a resurgence of death star units? What's our defence against them? We can't all run pure avoidance lists (and shouldn't have to).
- A lot of the random elements have disappeared (e.g. insane courage, animosity, unit champs making failed charges less likely etc). I understand the target audience for this is tournament players, the extreme element of whom will have math-hammered their list to within an inch of it's life and won't be happy when you roll snake eyes for your break test, but unpredictability is part of the game. You will fluff the odd round of combat you should win by a landslide, and sometimes a unit that should be scared out of their wits will stand and fight against overwhelming odds. Things don't always go to plan, and countering that is part of what makes a great general. Bring back the random!

You've hit the nail on the head here LL. 9th Age is primarily written by ETC players and reflects that ethos to some extent. Death Stars have always been seen there as a lesser evil compared to 6-diced magic and rampant shooting phases. The whole idea of 9th Age is to render comp and endless FAQ's irrelevant and unnecessary. To this end some things have become more detailed and there is indeed a horror of randomness trumping skill at any point. This was traditionally a bone of contention between players from English-speaking countries, who tended to get on fairly happily with out of the box 8th and Continental players, who found it unsatisfying. My suspicion is that Deathstars should be slightly less unkillable in combat now, especially with improved WE fighting units. Magic is toned down but effectively, only one character in each unit is immune to the top spells so there is some potential there.

LadyLoec wrote:A relatively specific one, but what on earth were they thinking by giving TK and VC the opportunity to pick another hierophant/general when we've killed the first one?! Especially with vamps, where you've likely had to go to extreme lengths to nail the git in the first place.

I believe this is simply following the trend set in the 8th edition VC book.

9th Age is a good, functional game and I'll play it where I can't get 8th but yes, ultimately, I prefer 8th.
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby Mollesvinet » 15 Apr 2016, 10:41

Hi Lady Loec,

One thing that is important when reading our rulebook in 9th is to keep in mind that other rulebooks have also been nerfed, or balanced depending how you look at it. Especially armour saves are generally lower on many enemies.

While death stars are still doable, they end up costing you. With the new system you buy minimum unit size at discount, and then pay for each addition. That means you could have more models on the table if all our units are minimum size! Also, the maximum unit sizes have been restricted on many of the units. No more 100 skaven slaves.

At least for wood elves, I feel characters have become more useful to deal with many problems. I think combat characters have become more interesting for many books. The worst combos have been slashed for other books though, no more 3+ rerollable ward save chaos warriors!

I have been playing mainly 9th since it came out, and I haven't really missed 8th much. Most of the things are the same when it comes down to it, and a lot of the gimmicky things of 8th has been resolved. I was not a fan of the scenario system in 9th to begin with, but it has been growing on me as it adds another layer to tactics. Of course, you can just choose not to play with it.
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby LadyLoec » 16 Apr 2016, 14:38

Thanks Phil and Mollesvinet. I will write up a list and see what I can do. I like the idea of not having to fumble through pages of FAQs, and the detailed diagrams of complex combats, for example, are great, so there's plenty to like here, but still missing the "oomph" for me I think. Maybe I can find my "something to be excited about" in a character build.
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby Mollesvinet » 16 Apr 2016, 22:50

Bring dragons. Dragons give oomph.

My last tournament had a mage lord mounted on a dragon! Can't do that in 8th :D It was a lot of fun, and I will try to write a quick summary of the games tomorrow.

My dragons name is Gregory.
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby LadyLoec » 16 Apr 2016, 23:11

Mollesvinet wrote:My dragons name is Gregory.


Gregory is indeed a name to strike fear in the hearts of man.

My Skaven have a pet hellpit called Squishy.
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby Phil Rossiter » 16 Apr 2016, 23:33

LadyLoec wrote:Gregory is indeed a name to strike fear in the hearts of man.

But did he object to the change in rider Thomas?

:)

I knew a woman with a huge Alsatian called Woofy.
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby Giladis » 17 Apr 2016, 11:00

LadyLoec wrote:Thanks Phil and Mollesvinet. I will write up a list and see what I can do. I like the idea of not having to fumble through pages of FAQs, and the detailed diagrams of complex combats, for example, are great, so there's plenty to like here, but still missing the "oomph" for me I think. Maybe I can find my "something to be excited about" in a character build.


If you are looking for something to excite you the full SE army book with background and artwork is coming very soon. The written part is done, art is 99% done (only one piece missing) and sometimes during this week the material will be taken over by graphic designers and visual editors.
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby Etheneus » 17 Apr 2016, 22:09

I have played a lot of 9th but have also played some 8th since one friend of mine don't like the 9th VC, he uses end times undead legion instead. I must say I always feel a little sorry he isn't playing 9th every time he comes to our gaming events. I feel so restricted when playing him and always bring the same unit but I have only once in 9th brought the same list twice.
That is for me the beauty of 9th. I can bring any model and it will be useable, maybe not good depending on match up but I won't feel I wasted the points on crap just because I wanted to use the models that are otherwise gathering dust. I even tried a full tree spirit list and won against Chaos warriors with both a chimera and a flaming banner warrior troupe of 25.
I admit to have been against the nerf to shooting for our archers but when I make my roster I always bring those black arrows even though they cost 1/2 the initial model cost and poison being only rare, I almost freaked out but realized that I hadn't brought sentinels along for some time anyway. My main WotDG opponent love monsters so always bring at least three and I have dealt with them all without poison and with only small help from magic. Avatar, wild huntsmen, shapeshifter and also rangers wreck monsters.
The Avatar is great but for the new cost of 340p? I stopped bringing him when he became 320p. And have only in the full tree spirit list brought the Mage kind and he didn't do so well.
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby alexwellace » 26 Jul 2016, 02:48

Just wanted to help restart the discussion here, I've been playing ninth age for a long while now and it's so much more fun than 8th ever was. I recently used an all tree list, and it worked! If a forest spirit is the general it means that Dryads can take command groups, so I've used the new tree revenents as the command and a.big block of Dryads with a hatred granting branchwraith and the whole unit was nails. I used this unit alongside a unit of 8 treekin with a tree shepherd (treekin hero, gives unit str 5, is a bsb and gives unit fights in extra rank), 2 skirmishing dryads, a treefather and tree father ancient and It clashed with my opponents saurian ancients in the middle of the board. It felt great to have the option to run such a durable hard hitting force.

Also kindreds make character creation very fun and unique. I've been making use of an Elk Lord Wild Hunter with bluffers helm, fireblight pendant, blessed sword and potion of strength. Toughness 5, enemies cannot gain str bonuses from weaponry, they have to 're-roll successful wound rolls and on the offense he gets 6 attacks on the charge hitting on 2s and forcing successful wards to be rerolled, with a 1 time +3 str. I hunkered him up inside a large unit of scoring glade riders (exchange fast cav for 3+ sv and bows for light lances) and when I get a chance I charge him out of the unit to wreck stuff. So far he's killed Grail knights, sword masters and no few lords when popping potion of str on the charge. Very fun build.

Curious to hear what Lord or hero choices make it into your lists?
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby Archaeoman » 26 Jul 2016, 19:49

alexwellace wrote:Just wanted to help restart the discussion here, I've been playing ninth age for a long while now and it's so much more fun than 8th ever was. I recently used an all tree list, and it worked! If a forest spirit is the general it means that Dryads can take command groups, so I've used the new tree revenents as the command and a.big block of Dryads with a hatred granting branchwraith and the whole unit was nails. I used this unit alongside a unit of 8 treekin with a tree shepherd (treekin hero, gives unit str 5, is a bsb and gives unit fights in extra rank), 2 skirmishing dryads, a treefather and tree father ancient and It clashed with my opponents saurian ancients in the middle of the board. It felt great to have the option to run such a durable hard hitting force.

Also kindreds make character creation very fun and unique. I've been making use of an Elk Lord Wild Hunter with bluffers helm, fireblight pendant, blessed sword and potion of strength. Toughness 5, enemies cannot gain str bonuses from weaponry, they have to 're-roll successful wound rolls and on the offense he gets 6 attacks on the charge hitting on 2s and forcing successful wards to be rerolled, with a 1 time +3 str. I hunkered him up inside a large unit of scoring glade riders (exchange fast cav for 3+ sv and bows for light lances) and when I get a chance I charge him out of the unit to wreck stuff. So far he's killed Grail knights, sword masters and no few lords when popping potion of str on the charge. Very fun build.

Curious to hear what Lord or hero choices make it into your lists?


Good to see some signs of life on here! Thanks for trying to start the discussion again!

I've played a few 9th age games and I totally agree with you! My opponents and I have had a blast! I like it a lot better than 8th. My group started with 6th and 9th has undone some of the things that made the game less fun in 8th and to some extent 7th (I'm looking at you Magic Phase, grumble grumble). I must admit that we have been unable to give up the movement rules in "difficult" and "very difficult" terrain from 6th and so still use those (blocks line of sight, more than 2" deep and cannot target or be targeted, units move at 1/2 speed in Difficult Terrain and 1/4 speed in Very Difficult Terrain unless they are Skirmishers, dangerous terrain only for war machines and chariots). We ignored the ludicrous magical terrain from 8th (how the blazes does just being in a poisonous forest make Handgunners fire poisoned bullets???), being a more "low fantasy" gang. 9th is much more the style I was hoping the game would go and it hasn't disappointed. Things are balanced and we have generally had a good time! That said, Age of Sigmar is, I admit, rather fun for very small quick games, more role playing than Warhammer (I've had quite the fun plot driven AOS campaign this summer involving my Wood Elves vs. a group of crusading Bretonnians). Epic stuff for DnD like stories but not the same strategy game we enjoy.

As to the list I bring, we tend to play smallish games of between 1000 and 1500 points. My favorite changes have been the return of Kindreds for characters and a good balance between excellent elvish shooting that seems fair (new Waywatchers, Pathfinders or whatever, are a great example). I've had a themed army for years, The Ghoststrider's Rangers, which have for 11 years been led by my general, Gwindalor Ghoststrider (I picked a random elf name from Tolkein's Silmirilion when I was in middle school and have kept it going) and heavy on the Waywatchers, scouts, and fast light infantry "glass cannon" units.

The Ghoststrider now appears as a forest lord with longbow, Pathfinder Kindred, Hail Shot arrow, a cloak, some type of protective amulet depending on points, and an armor piercing blade. I back him up with a hero (Hufaron Spirithunter) with Pathfinder Kindred, longbow, great weapon, BSB, and teleportation stone, who may join the Ghoststrider and the Pathfinders or an infantry block. They're a fun pair! I've had some good laughs and a healthy mix of success and critical fail with them and their large unit(s) of Pathfinders, whose choice of shots has been amazing, and/or infantry. This mobile archer-scout corps, prone to suicide missions and the like, is supported by large blocks of Wildwood Rangers (my army was themed around a group of Wildwood Rangers hunting down evil forest spirits long before the new book came out and stunned me with my background suddenly having models and a color scheme!) and a Core filled out with Black Arrow archers and skirmishing Dryads. My big unit of Rangers carries the banner that lets them act as a wizard master for dispelling, which has been awesome! In such small games, I prefer to have fun with my heroes rather than have to take a wizard just to not remove my entire army in two turns of spells.

How about others? Any other builds people enjoy?
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby alexwellace » 27 Jul 2016, 13:14

Since 9th hasn't introduced special characters yet I've been looking for an Elk Prince wth a suitable build to Proxy for Orion. This is what I've came up with; Wild Hunter Forest Prince with LA, Cloak, Hardened Shield, Ogre Blade and Talisman of Supreme shielding. 6 Str 7 with T5 2+/5++ on the charge seemed to emulate him alright. Played around with Helm of the Hunt and Giants Blade, but while 7 attacks here nice I'd prefer the 5+ ward save, not to mention Orion had a 5+. On the bright side I usually include a Highweaver who can throw around protection counters.

I love the idea of the Ghoststrider almost scout deathstar! Not only hard to catch but if you do charge the unit you have to run the gauntlet of accurate tailor picked Stand and Shoot shots followed by the Lord and Heroes high I attacks, then followed by the Pathfinders own attacks (2 attacks each at I6 wth AP ain't bad) before they can even swing. Have you considered the Obsidian Rock on the Lord to add some magic resistance? Seems to me a Large Fireball would be their only weakness. I also loved the design choice to let a banner dispell as a wizard master, allowing you to play games without a wizard. It's not something I've used myself yet because I love my Highweavers to give protection counters to my Shapeshifters or Elk Lords but now in small games I might steal your idea. Maybe put it in a unit of 5 Treekin with a Treeshepherd, in small games that'll be a tough nut to crack.
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Re: 9th age Woodies are out! Lets discuss!

Postby Etheneus » 27 Jul 2016, 22:11

I play some få games of 9th with an WotDG opponent, we have a friend with VC also but he prefers 8th with ET rules (not the magic) so I try to bring new lists every time I play the WotDG opponent just for fun.
Last time I tried a monster mash with a Wizard lv4 on dragon and three treemen. Did great against his regular stuff but couldn't touch his characters. Well my Avatar of nature should have been able to but lost to many wounds before he got the chance and my lv4 didn't have the bring back wound spell so could only heal 1 wound a turn on him.
Made for a great fun game!
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